Bruce Springsteen - Classic or Dud ?

I can't get worked up and annoyed about Bruce in the way I can about some other rockers. He has an ear for a great line (the opening of "Hungry Heart" for instance) and I can forgive him a lot for that. He doesn't resonate with me and like the Replacements I think that's a cultural thing.

I also - and this is totally subjective - never get the impression Bruce ever thinks he's particularly cool. Which is not something I can say of most other 'real rock'n'roller' types, mainstream or otherwise.

File under yet to be discovered. I was listening to an apologetic defence of his work from Sean Rowley on the radio the other day, and it got me wondering again. People of my generation's first real exposure to him was the 'Born in the USA' air-punching era and that obviously wasn't likely to engender much interest. Yes, I know it was all ironic.

What I have heard of his 70's stuff sounds like I might grow to love it. That midwest blue-collar world his songs inhabit seems harder to relate to than any other, but even in 1988, I had the feeling Paddy McAloon was missing the point with the song 'Cars & Girls'.

At the moment, I'm afraid the song of his I like best is a 90s one - 'If I Should Fall Behind', which I only know from the Grant McLellan cover version.

Badly Drawn Boy is a Springsteen obsessive, which I thought was quite cute.

N.

And yes, Tom, he's got a very good ear for a line.

I heard the version of "Santa Claus Is Coming To Town" when I was young and that is pretty spiff, I freely agree. Circa 1984, liking El Bruce was unsurprising for me as that was a pretty damn good radio year -- Chuck Eddy specifically called it as such in _Stairway to Hell_, and he was goddamn right. Thus liking all that stuff he made was a matter of course alongside all those singles from _Purple Rain_ and _Like A Virgin_ and etc.

Time went on and I proceeded to not care. I never cared enough to buy an album anyway, and the 'classic early singles' only made sense in my classic rock phase, which lasted about nine months in senior year.

Then I ended up in LA and encountered the first of Robert Hilburn's 345,234,843 printed sermons on How Bruce Springsteen Heals the Sick, Raises the Dead and Means More to Human Existence Than the Combined Efforts of Louis Pasteur, Billie Holiday and Charles Schulz. I encountered other blowhards. The music touched me with the impact of a dying flea. A roommate was obsessed with him to the point of near mania. I cried.

The end.

Frankly, the Walkabouts any day of the goddamn week, month, year, decade, century, etc. If the relative fame levels were reversed, I would cling to this assumption with even more deep, abiding passion because then I would have The People on my side. Even alone, though, it's comfy. And Frankie Goes to Hollywood's version of "Born to Run" is my fave.

i actually liked born_in_the_u.s.a when it came out at age 7, but later, i found it to be an obstacle in getting to love bruce, and i'm sure there are a ton of artists out there whose work at that time has kept people away from them.

as sterling said, it's funny what driving a car can do, especially when it's another dark and lonely night out on an empty anonymous new jersey highway and "born to run" comes on the highway. but i've been there, so i'll move on.

you can get by on the first five or so albums on the music and production alone -- unless of course you hate phil spector and are, therefore, destined to spend eternity in hell -- and the later stuff will stick if you find something in the lyrics that rings far too true. sure, he mines the same territory in a lot of his songs, but so do belle & sebastian and so did the smiths; except the kids in bruce's songs could kick the ass of their counterparts in the aforementioned.

ned, i think you have the same problem as tom: it's a cultural thing. ;)

It's not a cultural thing; I mean for god's sake Motorcycle Emptiness might as well be Bruce Springsteen on a literacy trip in terms of subject, and I know Tom likes the song, and I believe Ned does too. Whether that particular statement was tongue in cheek or not, it's a tired excuse and reasoning, one usually used by the saddest of Bruce Springsteen fans, the ones who "identify" with his sentiments, seemingly losing track of the fact that BRUCE'S CHARACTERS NEVER ACTUALLY MAKE IT OUT. Some positive role models to rock out to.

The thing is, I think it's the voice and the earnestness, which was already said. The stylistic values of it....the basic cultural and escape sentiments, lyrically, of Motorcycle Emptiness and Born to Run might be very similar in tone, but the style and vocalisings are entirely, 100% different. Bruce has a very sarcastic bent, a very dark bent, lyrically, but his style of music softens the blow and sometimes people just don't like it.

And those people are wrong, incidentally :P

Nebraska is half good but doesn't deserve the plaudits it gets as the Springsteen album it's cool to like.

The rest is pretty much DUD.

Nevermind that Born in the USA was my first record not meant to be played on the Fisher Price record player (with the STEEL NEEDLE)

Nevermind Tracks Nevermind the fact that Born to Run is one of the best driving albums ever when your top is down and it's summer and the road between Ventura and home stretches out and empty at night with no cops...

Nevermind he has out Dylan-ed Dylan

Nevermind that he can outrage The Man as he pushes the dark side of life. (41 Shots)

Nevermind the line "The record company Rosie, JUST GAVE ME A BIG ADVANCE!"

Nevermind the Live box set, reminding us just how powerful he was

Nevermind Time and Newsweek

Nevermind Thunder-Fucking-Road

Nevermind The cover of Jersey Girl

Nevermind Tracks

Nevermind the MTV Unplugged set where he scrapped the entire notion of an acoustic show and just plugged in and tore down the house

Nevermind everyone on this list who called him a dud.

well, Bruce isn't *that* bad! ;)

La Bruce just collectively calls to my mind a stunted bastard vision of music that presumes he was the sole carrier of the 'spirit of rock and roll truth' that the Beatles and Stones 'started' in the sixties. A CLAIM I HAVE ENCOUNTERED MORE THAN ONCE, though thankfully not here, and happily never from the man's own lips either, at least to my knowledge. Without that rhetoric I would just shrug and ignore him for somebody more interesting, but with it, frankly, he becomes a very very useful target to kick against. Perhaps only a straw man, but one I wouldn't mind seeing go up in flames.

The boy has fallen off of late, but... I'm reminded of the Bangs article where he describes how he dismissed this Maoist band as sounding like Bruce, and the band replied "oh, good, the working class like that stuff" or something of the sort, and I'm reading this thinking -- no. no. no. The correct answer is "oh, good. Bruce fucking rocks!"

What I appreciate about Bruce is how he can capture the majesty of a major chord. How so many of his songs have the same progression, but you don't realize it 'till you try to play 'em yourself. How he can take gospel music and write it to a girl instead. And yes, more of them damn anthems.

I mean.. I know that anthems aren't an alien concept to the UK -- after all, The Who were full of them. But maybe British anthems are a different type a "get off of my cloud" or "sod off" type, more cynical and pissy than dreamy and wide-eyed. Maybe this is, after all, because America is The Big Country, The Great Bitch, et cet. Maybe to get America you have to get just how there's always somewhere you might go, maybe.

Along these lines, "Not Fade Away" which is a novel by Jim Dodge is a great rock road story, sort of like the lighter side of Richard Hell's "Go Now" or the more earnest(?) side of Bruce McCullough's "Doors Fan" sketch (on his album, Shame-Based Man). Yes. Get that spirit of the open highway.

I will say, though, that I do lack a car and have never had one. That might serve as a better explanation. ;-)

I wish I wasn't misinterpreting.

Inspirational in some ways. I have often felt that England needed a Springsteen, albeit not just a a copycat 'rocker'; I mean, someone who would write about all the lost and found small-town lives. But to be fair, I suppose there is already a UK tradition here: the probably Jarvis Cocker is a case in point.

1. they don't understand that he's actually not as "pro-america" as they might think he is

2. they don't have as close a connection to "old school" code (which includes "old school" rock)

3. they are mostly college kids on their way up to some office job or whatever that is removed (if not far removed) from the "underworld" (the "blue collar" or "real" world) to get the lyrical sentiments

4. well, and...sometimes people just don't like something 'cause they just don't like it

I, however, do not apply to any of those 4. For I actually do "get" some of the appeal of Bruce (albeit, it took my until my mid or late twenties to get there). Sure, his overly sentimental (downright broadway or maudlin) look at the working class can be a bit (or a bunch) too much. And sure, his music can be too simple and/or too derivitive. But, that's a part of the whole. Familiarity in both music and lyrics, is a large part of the appeal of his stuff (and those like him, ala Mellencamp, etc). He just had the concept to put nearly a whole career on the working class/blue collar life like no other has (not in such a wide reaching broad sense, at least - other than Mellencamp, but Bruce did it a bit better and first).

Classics:

Having said all that, 'Nebraska' and 'Ghost of Tom Joad' are the only two full albums that I would declare anywhere near a "classic" state of existence (with 'Nebraska' being the one clear-cut vote). Many of the rest of his 70's and 80's albums have some good solid worthy singles on them, but. I can't go so far as to get 'The River' (for example) anywhere near a "classic" nod. That one, in particular, I find to be overrated (though still having the wonderful track "Stolen Car" and the title track deserving of 'Nebraska'-like attention).

Anyways, I forgot to mention to huge (to the point of shadowing) element as to one of the why's (or why not's) of enjoy/appreciating Bruce. Which is: DRIVING. Cars and driving is such a central and/or reoccuring figure/subject in his work that...I can't believe I forgot to touch upon that (only after reading some of the others posts, darn it). But yea, I do LOVE to drive. Which also helps to explain the appeal of Springsteen (to me, at least).

*By the way, I do own that McCulloch album 'Shame Based Man' and...love it (some really funny stuff and one of the very rare comedy albums worthy of many plays - if not it's own discussion here on "I Love Music"...anyone?). Every single one of my girlfriends (one present, others past) hated it. "And if (after torching the stolen car) you can still hear the Doors playing...then you have become...a DOORS...FAN!" I'm not a Doors fan, however.

I hadn't listened to this record in a couple of years, but god, it still sounded great. Actually, I kept getting shivers down my spine when it was playing and it had me close to tears a few times (mostly on "Thunder Road" and "Backstreets.") Listening to this today finally settled an ILM debate for me: Music can never affect me quite as much now as it did when I was a teenager. No record I've heard in the last few years, including Loveless, has had as much affect on me as Born to Run did this morning, and I know it's not just because Born to Run is such a great album. This is a record that got to me when I was young and emotionally vulnerable in a way that I'm not anymore, at the age of 32. I still feel music very deeply and appreciate and enjoy a wider range of music than ever, but music doesn’t completely overpower me the way it did when I was 15. Oh well.

Springsteen is still a big classic, by the way, despite all the incredibly corny lines on Born to Run.

"candy's room" is the grebtest song ever written about being in love w. a prostitute when you sound a bit like david bowie

Is this a new genre? Cos that'd be fucking incredible.

I still love Bruce Springsteen. Put on Rosalita and you will see me go insane.

I had skin like pleather

Darkness At The Edge Of The Mixing Board

The diamond hard look of a $2.44 roll back

groping his way out of Studio B at the Record Plant in total darkness

Springsteen themed escape room idea right there.

It's a death trap

Mama, mama, mama come quick
nothin’ happens when I hit the switch
I stubbed my toe and got me a fright
Please ‘lectric company don’t you turn out the lights

groping his way out of Studio B at the Record Plant in total darkness

Holy shit, it could be like a Springsteen-themed reboot of "The Warriors!"

As someone who doesn't really "feel" much of his music viscerally, my greatest pleasure from Springsteen's music is the lucidity of his concepts, even when they're intentionally ambiguous. Not because they're simple-minded, but his topics and scope are so clearly delineated, he basically writes around a thesis. Listeners can discuss or expand on the stories and themes, but I can't imagine needing to hear his opinions on the songs, because the opinions are clearly the basis of the songs.

His live description of the writing process as it applied to "The Rising" from (I think) Storytellers is apropos here.

Just the bits where he's walked out on a limb like "see Mary in the garden" and realises he needs ground beneath the assertion. Okay, but who's Kary? And WHAT garden? - ah yes, make it specific but also still mysterious: "the garden of a thousand sighs."

Like a pendulum between the abstract and the concrete. If he has an abstraction (like redemption), he must immediately root it to something tangible (like a car hood). If there is a dream of life there must be a catfish.

That's as clear as any description of creativity ever will get, and in a few minutes describes the miracle of art. I went to an expensive university to study literature and philosophy. In retrospect I should have just waited for VH1.

From about 1:43 to 5:50 in this video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7G_n8l-2SCQ

* Mary, dunno who Kary is

As someone who doesn't really "feel" much of his music viscerally, my greatest pleasure from Springsteen's music is the lucidity of his concepts, even when they're intentionally ambiguous. Not because they're simple-minded, but his topics and scope are so clearly delineated, he basically writes around a thesis. Listeners can discuss or expand on the stories and themes, but I can't imagine needing to hear his opinions on the songs, because the opinions are clearly the basis of the songs.

otm. I think this is at once a great strength of Springsteen's - because at his best he can express what seems like the essential and fundamental take on something central to America, or to working-class life, that nobody quite managed to put into words before - and a great weakness, in that it can give interpreting his work a built-in end point. You "solve" the song, and you're - not done exactly, but some of the interest of listening is behind you. The ambiguity is essential because it gives you as the listener something to do; it makes the thesis into a collaboration between you and Bruce. Why would you want to skip to the end of that process and cut yourself out of it?

There have been some times, especially with his recent work, where I am torn interpreting his lyricism as concise and economical or just lazy. This started around "The Rising" albumand especially Mary's Place, another song iirc he addressed in Storytellers. It got to the point where I dreaded it live. From the same album, I actually used to love Waitin' on a Sunny Day *for* its simplicity and innocence, and then he literally turned it into a children's sing-along.

Just the bits where he's walked out on a limb like "see Mary in the garden" and realises he needs ground beneath the assertion. Okay, but who's Mary? And WHAT garden? - ah yes, make it specific but also still mysterious: "the garden of a thousand sighs."

I've always heard that and thought "garden of Gethsemane, obvs;" it never occurred to me that Springsteen might have arrived there by another route.

I think I've said this before somewhere, but I have complicated feelings about "The Rising.” When I first heard it on the album, I found it overcooked and emotionally manipulative, and it made me uncomfortable knowing that it was about real people. It felt intrusive and wrong to let myself be moved by it, and since that was clearly the entire purpose of the song, I just couldn't listen to it at all.

But then, when Notre Dame burned, I read a description from the New York Times of one of the firefighters going in to try to save it that began, "Bearing 55 pounds of gear and a breathing pipe on her shoulder, Corporal Chudzinski climbed the dark staircase in the transept on the cathedral’s north side." As I read, "The Rising" started playing in my head, and those lines became real and moving to me in a way they had not been before. Which is not to say that I find the Notre Dame story, where no one died and the mission was successful, more moving than the mass deaths of 9/11, just that it felt somehow more allowable and less tacky to put myself in that POV.

And then I finally heard the song in concert and let myself give in to the gospel sing-along of it all, and it made me cry.

So I’m left with a sort of cautious and conditional appreciation for what “The Rising” does, which is very much gospel, imo, it’s about the creation of a kind of shared catharsis through this anthemic sing-along experience that you just have to launch yourself into or stand back from, there is no middle way.

And one thing that stands out to me about that Springsteen Storytellers thing is that he is very much going line by line through a song that has already taken shape in his mind. He never takes a step back and says, "so I decided to write this song as a gospel singalong," it's only in bits like the discussion of the "li, li, li" and the chorus that he addresses it indirectly. And THAT is interesting to me because there are 100% other ways to do it - but I will save those thoughts for another post because this is already way too long.

“Mary’s Place” seems widely hated, which caught me off guard, but I have to admit, I generally think of it as a respite on an otherwise mournful album - not thematically or lyrically but musically. Lyrically it’s one of the weaker cuts on the album, but I like how it’s a swinging throwback to early Springsteen which seems fitting for a wake in E Street land, as if the departed was someone they have known from way back when.

I remember hearing "The Rising" the day it came out, and how audacious and specific it was to start a song from that point of view. And the whole Mary and garden and catfish scenes felt credibly like the last thoughts a firefighter might have when trapped in that stairwell.

It's not even in my top Bruce songs. For reasons not far off from what Lily Dale describes. Like, there's something both obvious _and_ arrogant about experiencing the Worst Day Ever and thinking "you know, I think I'll write a song about this."

Obvious and trite like a 14-year-old writing a poem about social injustice. Arrogant like thinking you're the anointed poet of your generation so _of course_ you must be heard from.

Also I'd drifted away from paying much attention to contemporary popular music at that time. (Not bragging, just reporting that I had other things on my mind.)

But that Storytellers thing stuck with me.

Wasn't the impetus for that album allegedly someone bumping into Bruce on the street post-9/11 and literally pleading "Bruce, we need you!"

all these advance tracks from the boxset are great! super looking forward to it

Was listening to some live thin lizzy today and struck by the vocal similarities between Phil and Bruce. A 70s wordy talking /singing in a high register thing

Yeah, Thin Lizzy and Van Morrison loom large, which is weird, because I don't really think of them as a part. Dylan was always first and foremost. Those latent influences no doubt informed his shift

I can see the Dylan source thing but Bob never sang that fast

I dunno, Bob sings pretty fast. My Back Pages, Subterranean Homesick Blues, Like a Rolling Stone, etc

Wasn't the impetus for that album allegedly someone bumping into Bruce on the street post-9/11 and literally pleading "Bruce, we need you!"

Yes, but even if that didn't happen, it's ludicrous to hold it against a songwriter for simply writing about a tragic event. Making a choice not to address a cataclysmic event, especially one that will impact a lot of people in a profound and terrible way, is far more wrong than choosing to do so. The real issue is how you go go about it and what you have to say.

I think Springsteen stuck to his strengths and aimed for empathetic songs, focusing mostly on loss and how different parts of humanity can find common ground. At its best, I think the album does that well, but I can't say it comes to mind as a great work of art about 9/11 because it doesn't go deeper into the political aspects. To its credit, the album does address them, Springsteen acknowledges a much larger culture beyond Western culture and "Paradise" is a stand out for applying his talents to a subject matter most mainstream artists avoided, but a bolder songwriter would have confronted more uncomfortable truths and the jingoistic fervor that paved the way to the immoral war that followed.

Bob gives me a “I just smoked a doobie” vibe. Like a rolling stone does not have a fast tempo

xpost For sure, but even Neil Young was flummoxed by the situation.

a bolder songwriter would have confronted more uncomfortable truths and the jingoistic fervor that paved the way to the immoral war that followed.

Sometimes I think One Beat (released like a month after The Rising) was the only 9/11-inspired album that got it right.

OTOH, I do remember Spin placing The Rising in their 2002 Best Of list, with the critic (whose name escapes me) writing something to the effect that "America's Concerned Parent role was open, and [Springsteen] felt the role should be filled by someone who wasn't a jack-booted yokel* and rose to the occasion with a powerful and often corny statement" which really sums it up. It's really easy to look at the album through 2025 eyes and find fault with its early 2002 thoughts and reasoning. (Bypassing the real problems with the CD Bloat and crummier than usual production.)

*"Ouch" sez Toby Keith!

My fave 9/11 albums are probably PJ Harvey's "Stories from the City, Stories from the Sea" and "Yankee Hotel Foxtrot," and neither was intended as such.

It's telling that five songs from "The Rising" regularly make it into live circulation, that's more that make it than from most of his records. Clearly the songs still mean a lot to Bruce.

I need to revisit it, but Mekons' OOOH! (outstanding and one of their best) came off as a solid response to 9/11. IIRC Jim DeRogatis said it was recorded in the wake of 9/11 and he likely asked them.

Also Dylan's Love and Theft was an amazing 9/11 album recorded beforehand - the numerous lines that seemed to presage things to come was uncanny.

Kid a for me

neither was intended as such.

Especially since they were both recorded way beforehand, with the Harvey record coming out almost a year earlier.

PJ has an interesting 9/11 connection, as she was in DC on that date and saw the plane hit the Pentagon from her hotel room.

Would like to hear Bruce cover “how to disappear” inna Nebraska styleee

xpost I saw PJ Harvey play Chicago the week of 9/11, it was intense. But not as intense as seeing Laurie Anderson play Chicago *on* 9/11.

”Ouch" sez Toby Keith!

We’ll put a hole in your floor, it’s the American way.

Dug up the Spin blurb for The Rising:

#14. With the president behaving like scary Uncle George, the concerned-parent role (post-9/11, pre- Gulf War II) was open, and Bruce Springsteen--like U2 a year ago--nominated himself for the job. But The Rising has none of U2's lingering cool, it's a boldly corny, plainspoken album by a songwriter who sincerely believes that working stiffs deserve a spokesman who's not a jingoistic yokel. (Charles Aaron)

Other 9/11 albums in the Top 40:

2. YHF
12. One Beat
13. The Blueprint 2
15. Scarlet's Walk
29. 18
36. Jerusalem

FWIW, the CD bloat is definitely a common complaint. It's always been a slog when I try to play it all, and IIRC Greil Marcus even began his column review with "It’s too long." (Brendan O'Brien pushed for a shorter album and to cut out at least a few songs but it was ultimately Springsteen's call - he wanted it to be long and sprawling.) Jimmy Guterman also said it was too long and proposed the following:

1. "Lonesome Day" 4:08
2. "Into the Fire" 5:04
3. "Nothing Man" 4:23
4. "Empty Sky" 3:34
5. "You're Missing" 5:10
6. "The Rising" 4:50
7. "Paradise" 5:39
8. "My City of Ruins" 5:00

I think he picked the eight strongest tracks, but I also think it's too short. I would reinstate "Worlds Apart" (otherwise by keeping only "Paradise" towards the very end, the album feel a bit too narrow in its worldview) and for my tastes I'd also reinstate "Mary's Place" even though most people seem to dislike it. Again, it's lyrically one of the weakest cuts, but I like how it’s a swinging throwback to early Springsteen which seems fitting for a wake in E Street land, as if the departed was someone they have known from way back when.

PJ has an interesting 9/11 connection, as she was in DC on that date and saw the plane hit the Pentagon from her hotel room.

also on that date, she won the mercury prize for stories from the city...

josh otm about it being one of the great 9/11 albums, regardless of when it was released.

I love "Don't Back Down on Our Love" so much. So glad he included this version of it on the album, since there are multiple takes bootlegged.

so will there be a distilled 2xCD of 2xLP version of this box for us mildly curious casual Bruce fans who don't have a spare $300 lying around?

I mean, for the mildly curious, it’s all streaming as of this morning.

I think I'll spend this morning listening to it while I kayak on a lake. #livingthebrucelife

#borntopaddle

#thunderrow

well, first disc listening is done. of course, I'm familiar with a lot of these songs from various bootlegs, but it's really nice to hear in this context. One of the things I appreciate most about it is actually all the relatively boilerplate or semi-familiar chord progressions, because they make you focus on the lyrics, which are awfully powerful at times.

like, you can definitely tell Bruce was doing a lot of reading of stuff like Raymond Carver.

Dipping into the second disc after an hour of paddling against the wind, and this is really the stuff. Despondent Bruce with synthesizers, chef's kiss.

Paddling into the tunnel of love, you might say.

One of the things I appreciate most about it is actually all the relatively boilerplate or semi-familiar chord progressions, because they make you focus on the lyrics, which are awfully powerful at times.

Excellent point. Similar idea came to me regarding Dylan, when I was thinking about how his backings tend to be there for him to ride along, not to solo or come up with new hooks and other earworms, etc. Given how much he puts in the words, it makes a lot of sense.

One of the things I appreciate most about it is actually all the relatively boilerplate or semi-familiar chord progressions, because they make you focus on the lyrics, which are awfully powerful at times.

This sentence made me laugh really hard, because it's a perfect expression of the exact opposite of what I like or seek out in music. "Just gimme something super basic and conventional, no surprises, so I can listen to the words."

That kind of articulates why then-veteran jazz producer Tom Wilson was reluctant to produce Dylan, claiming he didn't think much of folk music, and also why he changed his mind with Dylan.