why do people on ILM hate "live through this" ?

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I think it holds up just fine.

And this question is not just inspired by the recent jazz-pop thread, but from one a few weeks back where a poster asked which of a group of 10 records he should purchase, and almost everyone cautioned him against LTT

― Vic (Vic), Tuesday, 31 August 2004 01:51 (twenty-one years ago)

i don't hate it at all. plus it keeps stuart moxham in beer money.

― purple patch (electricsound), Tuesday, 31 August 2004 01:56 (twenty-one years ago)

I don't mind it at all but perhaps that's because I haven't heard it in about 9 years.

― Gear! (Gear!), Tuesday, 31 August 2004 02:07 (twenty-one years ago)

It's probably mostly on account of a visceral reaction to certain female frontpersons.

― Atnevon (Atnevon), Tuesday, 31 August 2004 02:11 (twenty-one years ago)

i love that record! i probably still listen to it more than nirvana

― kyle (akmonday), Tuesday, 31 August 2004 02:24 (twenty-one years ago)

I like it!

― Al (sitcom), Tuesday, 31 August 2004 02:30 (twenty-one years ago)

I sold mine back when I realized I hadn't touched it in ten years. Ripped the mp3s, though.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 31 August 2004 02:32 (twenty-one years ago)

About half of it is fairly good.
But that P&J ranking was insane -- it's not even top 100 of 1994. That was a really awesome year for music though.

― Barry Bruner (Barry Bruner), Tuesday, 31 August 2004 03:15 (twenty-one years ago)

Probably 'cause it sucks. Like Courtney Love's other albums.

― Sasha (sgh), Tuesday, 31 August 2004 03:28 (twenty-one years ago)

I like that song about the pee girl or whatever. Which one is that again? Is it "Softer, Softest"? I should download it.

― AaronHz (AaronHz), Tuesday, 31 August 2004 03:37 (twenty-one years ago)

I'd like to know not only 99 nointey-noinety-4 albums that are better than LTT, but the reasons why. I can think of at most perhaps 19, but no more.

― Vic (Vic), Tuesday, 31 August 2004 03:42 (twenty-one years ago)

99. Prodigy - Music For A Jilted Generation
You can dance to it and it's truly underground and dark and scarey and good.

98. Manic Street Preachers - The Holy Bible
It's just got better songs.

97. Blur - Parklife
Again, better songs.

96. Orbital - Snivilisation
Do I need a reason?

95. Aphex Twin - Selected Ambient Works II
Please!

94. Oasis - Definitely Maybe
Even this is better than "Live Through This"

93. Nirvana - Unplugged
Why would you even want a Hole album if you already have Nirvana records?

This took me two minutes to write.

― dog latin (dog latin), Tuesday, 31 August 2004 08:50 (twenty-one years ago)

i like it plenty. courtney love has an incredible voice, and its really at its best on this record.

― weasel diesel (K1l14n), Tuesday, 31 August 2004 08:56 (twenty-one years ago)

dom p. likes it!

― weasel diesel (K1l14n), Tuesday, 31 August 2004 08:57 (twenty-one years ago)

"why do people on ilm"....?

I can't stand it, I must admit. Basically b/c when I listen to it, it makes me feel unhappy.

― Pashmina (Pashmina), Tuesday, 31 August 2004 09:13 (twenty-one years ago)

actually none of those are better than LTT, Charlie, but nice try anyway.

― Josh Love (screamapillar), Tuesday, 31 August 2004 09:25 (twenty-one years ago)

At least four of them are, Josh.

I have never heard LTT.

― Jimmybommy JimmyK'KANG (Nick Southall), Tuesday, 31 August 2004 09:33 (twenty-one years ago)

"parklife", "snivilisation", "SAWii", "Unplugged" all better, "def maybe" about as bad" "jilted gen" actually worse, who gives a fukc.

― Pashmina (Pashmina), Tuesday, 31 August 2004 09:35 (twenty-one years ago)

Jilted gen is NOT worse N0rm4n you mentalist!

― Jimmybommy JimmyK'KANG (Nick Southall), Tuesday, 31 August 2004 09:38 (twenty-one years ago)

"Jilted Gen" = TORTURE for me, Nick!!

― x0x0x, old enough to remember the real sham 69Pashmina (Pashmina), Tuesday, 31 August 2004 09:39 (twenty-one years ago)

argh.

― Pashmina (Pashmina), Tuesday, 31 August 2004 09:40 (twenty-one years ago)

regardless of how she attained her fame, i think courtney offered one of the most interesting feminist perspectives of the decade, made all the more useful by the fact that it reached so many people in the mainstream. as a text i think LTT is endlessly fascinating and great, plus it really does rock!

― Josh Love (screamapillar), Tuesday, 31 August 2004 09:51 (twenty-one years ago)

Violet >>>>>>>> everything Nirvana ever did. FACE IT.

― edward o (edwardo), Tuesday, 31 August 2004 09:53 (twenty-one years ago)

Oh come off it.

― Pashmina (Pashmina), Tuesday, 31 August 2004 10:07 (twenty-one years ago)

No, really. It's true. (This is the only time I'm ever going to make such a blanket statement and refuse to justify. It just IS. Unless, for you, it isn't. Which is fair enough, really).

― edward o (edwardo), Tuesday, 31 August 2004 10:09 (twenty-one years ago)

I like it a lot, it's certainlt better than Nirvana's unplugged.

― mei (mei), Tuesday, 31 August 2004 10:42 (twenty-one years ago)

"Unplugged" is pretty boring, I think, but I find "live Through This" actively obnoxious.

― Pashmina (Pashmina), Tuesday, 31 August 2004 10:45 (twenty-one years ago)

i almost agree with edward, although i still have a pretty soft spot for "heart shaped box"

― purple patch (electricsound), Tuesday, 31 August 2004 10:49 (twenty-one years ago)

I've never heard it, but would like to.

― Rockist_Scientist (rockist_scientist), Tuesday, 31 August 2004 13:45 (twenty-one years ago)

I remember a brief period in time when it seemed like lots of people were saying Hole was better than Nirvana, and it seemed like the cool opinion to have.

― Rockist_Scientist (rockist_scientist), Tuesday, 31 August 2004 13:57 (twenty-one years ago)

`Cos it's crap. That's why.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Tuesday, 31 August 2004 14:00 (twenty-one years ago)

I remember a brief period in time when it seemed like lots of people were saying Hole was better than Nirvana

These people were called "the sane". "Celebrity Skin" is a better album, Courtney is a lot better at "rocking" than "rock", but as a selection of singles, the idea that Nirvana have three songs to match "Violet", "Miss World", and "Doll Parts" (not to mention "Rock Star") is, frankly, dumb.

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Tuesday, 31 August 2004 14:41 (twenty-one years ago)

Beyond the fact that they were married, why do people tirelessly feel the need to compare the two bands?

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Tuesday, 31 August 2004 14:42 (twenty-one years ago)

Because it contains a ROCKED OUT cover of a ... Young Marble Giants song? If any band doesn't need LOUD DISTORTED GUITARS, it's Young Marble Giants.

― n/a (Nick A.), Tuesday, 31 August 2004 14:46 (twenty-one years ago)

i hold courtney responsible for kurt's death = cannot sit through to her insufferable wailing

― dyson (dyson), Tuesday, 31 August 2004 14:52 (twenty-one years ago)

ha ha "sit through this"

― dyson (dyson), Tuesday, 31 August 2004 14:52 (twenty-one years ago)

I feel nothing for Live Through This, with the exception of "Doll Parts". That is a tragic song coming from a drug addict being honest with herself for the first and last time in her recorded career. That I line "I want to be the most cake" comes out of her mouth with more feeling than she has ever mustered. She'll never match it widower period, probably cuz she didn't write it herself and has no idea how to express real emotion.

― frankE (frankE), Tuesday, 31 August 2004 15:04 (twenty-one years ago)

Generally--and this is not just exclusive to ILM--I'd say it's because many people despise Courtney Love. Anything she does or touches = shit. Personally, LTT is a fucking masterpiece. In no uncertain terms, it changed my life.

― Je4nne ƒury (Jeanne Fury), Tuesday, 31 August 2004 15:20 (twenty-one years ago)

*i hold courtney responsible for kurt's death*

so you were there? give me a break. surely Kurt had something to do with it. he was a miserable twat long before he met Courtney, long before he was famous.

I like his music though.

― shookout (shookout), Tuesday, 31 August 2004 15:24 (twenty-one years ago)

my post should read "widow period". sorry.

― frankE (frankE), Tuesday, 31 August 2004 15:25 (twenty-one years ago)

WTF, Courtney covers "Credit in the Straight World"?? How come I didn't know about this before??

I've never heard the album, obv., but all of the singles were pretty awesome.

― jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 31 August 2004 15:42 (twenty-one years ago)

Here's a little story that I offer up to offer up -- early 1992 I was hanging around talking to a couple of guys at Jabberjaw (old location) waiting for Ween to play. One was working on a YMG tribute comp and said that if all worked out as planned -- they were being understandably hush-hush about it at the time -- Nirvana were actually going to play on said album, and cover said song. So when Hole's version came out two years later, I was bemused.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 31 August 2004 15:52 (twenty-one years ago)

Beyond the fact that they were married, why do people tirelessly feel the need to compare the two bands?
-- Alex in NYC (vassife...), August 31st, 2004.

Cos the bands sounds similar in mmany ways and it's rumoured Kurt wrote chunks of the album.

― mei (mei), Tuesday, 31 August 2004 15:54 (twenty-one years ago)

>I remember a brief period in time when it seemed like lots of people were saying Hole was better than Nirvana<

They were. No fucking comparison. Courtney was a much better singer and much better songwriter for one, I mean two, things.

― chuck, Tuesday, 31 August 2004 16:12 (twenty-one years ago)

But she was a goth rocker and I thought you hated that.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 31 August 2004 16:13 (twenty-one years ago)

I like plenty of goth rock. But she's more Grace Slick, anyway.

addendum to my previous post:

(Either that, or Kurdt just gave most of his best songwriting to Courtney. Even after was dead.) (Unless Billy Corgan and Jordan Zadarozny etc. just gave Courtney all of THEIR best songwriting then.)

― chuck, Tuesday, 31 August 2004 16:16 (twenty-one years ago)

I liked it well enough in high school and have never really felt inspired to go back since, which is emphatically not the case with most albums I liked then. How's that? I definitely never thought it was better than Nirvana but I did think the hits were great for the time.

What I don't get, and I'll probably get crucified for this, is the hate for Arrested Development's 3 Years. . . I think it's really interesting and enjoyable.

― sundar subramanian (sundar), Tuesday, 31 August 2004 16:17 (twenty-one years ago)

I just find it incredible that anyone would think that coutney was in any way better than kurdt, either as a singer or as a songwriter, I mean she was better than tad, I'll grant you that, but she wasn't even as good as mark arm. Plus, Nirvana had a much, much better drummer.

― Pashmina (Pashmina), Tuesday, 31 August 2004 16:17 (twenty-one years ago)

OTM. She's no PJ, you know.

― sundar subramanian (sundar), Tuesday, 31 August 2004 16:18 (twenty-one years ago)

Oh please. Patty Schemel > Dave Grohl.

― Je4nne ƒury (Jeanne Fury), Tuesday, 31 August 2004 16:18 (twenty-one years ago)

Skipping 240 messages at this point... Click here if you want to load them all.

well hey we can talk about the music, but a bunch of people on this thread seem to be hearing something completely different than me when they hear "Live Through This". How anyone could hear "Doll Parts" and insist it bears no sonic resemblance to Nirvana = *my brain exploding*

― Shakey Mo Collier, Wednesday, 1 September 2004 23:17 (twenty-one years ago)

fwiw, I only heard "Malibu" off "Celebrity Skin" (which sounded flat and thin to me, and no, not much like Nirvana) and haven't heard a note from "America's Sweetheart", so my musical knowledge of Courtney's output only covers "Pretty On the Inside" and "Live Through This". "Pretty on the Inside" sounds like Sonic Youth or the Melvins or something for most of it, and is I guess her best record. The only song I really remember enjoying is "Good Sister/Bad Sister", cuz its so heavy and silly. "Live Through This" = can't bear to sit through it.

― Shakey Mo Collier, Wednesday, 1 September 2004 23:21 (twenty-one years ago)

Sorry Shakey, I meant "buggeded by Courtney", not each other on this thread. I didn't mean we should only stick to talking about music or not letting the thread morph into whatever. I agree with a lot of what you say.

Celebrity haters = me yawning.

― Thea (Thea), Wednesday, 1 September 2004 23:28 (twenty-one years ago)

but

letting the thread morph into whatever = maybe we should just change the subject, I know how you like that

so be careful.

― chuck, Wednesday, 1 September 2004 23:33 (twenty-one years ago)

"I know how you like that

so be careful"

I think I've just entered a Brian de Palma movie.

Not interestingly or surpisingly, I just noticed that it only took three posts for this thread to veer into the world of Courtney and away from the album.

Is that an ILM record, I wonder.

― Thea (Thea), Wednesday, 1 September 2004 23:34 (twenty-one years ago)

One difference between the cult of Courtney and the cult of Eddie Vedder or Axl Rose is that the latter two were never famous for being famous (at least nowhere near the degree that Courtney is/was).

They made a conscious decision to keep themselves private, which Courtney has never done at any point in the last twelve years.

Making a conscious effort to keep oneself out of the limelight does a lot to transcend the differences between male celebrities and female celebrities.

― Barry Bruner (Barry Bruner), Wednesday, 1 September 2004 23:40 (twenty-one years ago)

"Making a conscious effort to keep oneself out of the limelight does a lot to transcend the differences between male celebrities and female celebrities."

What differences?

― Thea (Thea), Wednesday, 1 September 2004 23:41 (twenty-one years ago)

i.e. if you're making a concerted effort to stay out of the spotlight, then nobody talks/writes about you and then it doesn't matter what gender you are.

― Barry Bruner (Barry Bruner), Wednesday, 1 September 2004 23:45 (twenty-one years ago)

oh it looked like you meant there are actually inherrent differences between male and female celebs that the femmes could transcend if they made an extra effort, like some of the smarter boy celebs.

i agree with yr second post, natch

― Thea (Thea), Wednesday, 1 September 2004 23:48 (twenty-one years ago)

Unless they talk explicitly ABOUT you trying to stay out of the limelight (which they frequently do for Axl, even though he obviously doesn't belong on this thread and I just brought him up to change the subject. Or even Michael, who somehow manages to try to stay out of the limelight AND to make a spectacle of himself, at the same time.)

xpost

― chuck, Wednesday, 1 September 2004 23:49 (twenty-one years ago)

Thing is, lots of girls (who very well might be creepy and weird and all that stuff) DO stay out of the limelight. And lots of boys don't.

― chuck, Wednesday, 1 September 2004 23:51 (twenty-one years ago)

Incidentally, I'd much rather listen to Hole than ever listen to a Michael Jackson record.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Wednesday, 1 September 2004 23:52 (twenty-one years ago)

Or spotlight, I mean. (I don't even know if limes HAVE lights! I guess I must have been accidentally thinking of Rush or something.)

xpost

― chuck, Wednesday, 1 September 2004 23:52 (twenty-one years ago)

Good lord, man, Thriller over most anything anywhere anytime.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 1 September 2004 23:54 (twenty-one years ago)

Courtney is not as wacky or creepy or annoying as Michael Jackson, though. And he makes better records, too!

On this, Chuck, we can agree. And he's a better songwriter than Kurt, Courtney, Billy, and Linda Perry. *If* he's still writing his own songs.

whoa...xposts out a wah-zoo.

― frankE (frankE), Wednesday, 1 September 2004 23:54 (twenty-one years ago)

I thought that Axl was a reasonable comparison, chuck -- in 1992-3 he was drawing loads of attention to himself, what with GnR's mega-selling albums + tours + band members coming and going, his relationship with Stephanie Seymour, the homophobia allegations surrounding him. His overall celebrity and freakiness were approaching MJ levels.

But talking about somebody staying out of the spotlight gets boring real fast (MJ is an exception, but then again, his level of ubercelebrity and uberfreakiness is also an exception). People move on to talking about other things -- but in Courtney's case, she always reappears to supply them with new ammunition. What the media/fans/Courtney hataz do with that ammunition is a different matter (as opposed to how they would treat male celebs).

(xposts, etc.)

― Barry Bruner (Barry Bruner), Wednesday, 1 September 2004 23:59 (twenty-one years ago)

Re Michael Jackson being a better songwriter than all those folks:

And he is a better singer and dancer as well!! And he hires better rhythm sections! (Axl comes oddly close on all counts, however. And they're both from Indiana!)

― chuck, Thursday, 2 September 2004 00:02 (twenty-one years ago)

Prev. post should be partly past tense (i.e. - Axl hasn't been much skilled at singing, dancing, or hiring rhythm sections for the past 17 years, obviously. Then again, MJ has seen better days, as well.)

― chuck, Thursday, 2 September 2004 00:04 (twenty-one years ago)

I did a presentation on Kurt and Courtney in my last semester. All it basically revealed was that her dad irrefutably is an asshole, and Bloomfield is far from an objective documentarian, and more focused on himself than his own subjects (it ultimately became a documentation of Bloomfield vs. Ms Love, instead of going anywhere deeper than rumorville).

-- Vic (filmclasse...), September 1st, 2004.

You had to do a presentation on the film to get that across?

Anyway, as for my two cents worth: I've always been indifferent towards Hole/Courtney Love. I don't have that scarily irrational hatred that some people seem to have of her. She's written some good songs ("Violet" and "Doll Parts" especially). But I dunno, she never made much of an impression on me.

The whole Cobain wrote LTT thing is bullshit. Any similarity between Hole and Nirvana prolly comes from them working in roughly similar styles of music and the fact of Cobain and Love being married. It's well-known that they influenced each other's writing, but that doesn't equal cobain writing hole's album.

― latebloomer (latebloomer), Thursday, 2 September 2004 00:05 (twenty-one years ago)

Imagine if all musicians NEVER EVER erred in drawing "too much attention to themselves", We might have 50% less music in the world. Let's let the performers perform and not spit too much bile if they cross the line.

We creepy people typing away are far from the brain of a rock-star, I'm sorry to say this but I must. vive la difference

― Thea (Thea), Thursday, 2 September 2004 00:06 (twenty-one years ago)

Well, I have my creepy moments, I shouldnt' judge anyone else of course

― Thea (Thea), Thursday, 2 September 2004 00:06 (twenty-one years ago)

Good lord, man, Thriller over most anything anywhere anytime.

Oh for cryin' out loud, Fuck Michael Jackson!

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Thursday, 2 September 2004 00:11 (twenty-one years ago)

biliousness

― Thea (Thea), Thursday, 2 September 2004 00:13 (twenty-one years ago)

Sorry, Alex, I ain't jacking in some of the best music memories ever I had while growing up.

Thea isn't creepy or bilious. Sure, she hangs around in belfreys and keeps talking about the blood of the living, but who doesn't?

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 2 September 2004 00:13 (twenty-one years ago)

>Any similarity between Hole and Nirvana prolly comes from them working in roughly similar styles of music and the fact of Cobain and Love being married.<

I wonder if they combined their album collections? Or kept them in separate rooms. (Kurt's was more indie '80s pigfuck and Courtney's more major-label '80s modern rock, from what little I've read. I bet Curt would be real pissed if Courtney mis-filed his Flipper album!)

― chuck, Thursday, 2 September 2004 00:15 (twenty-one years ago)

Ned you shouldn't apologize for that last. That's like dropping a daisy into a vat of lye.

― Thea (Thea), Thursday, 2 September 2004 00:19 (twenty-one years ago)

Propping up Courtney as a feminist icon doesn't work at all (self-destructive behaviour is by definition not the most constructive response to patriarchy), but I love how the moment anyone mentions gender as a factor it's suddenly like "OH SO NOW SHE'S A FEMINIST ICON IS SHE!??!" Sophisticated (or even basic) understanding of gender politcs to thread.

― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Thursday, 2 September 2004 00:27 (twenty-one years ago)

I haven't read this thread, but I just want to say that I love 'Live Through This'. Even though I don't own it. I used to own it, but I lost it. I haven't bothered to buy it again since, mainly cuz I can't seem to find it at stores. (That's the kinda place I live in.)

People probably hate it cuz they hate Courtney, cuz...she could be a cunt sometimes.

― Nowell, Thursday, 2 September 2004 01:05 (twenty-one years ago)

is "pretty on the inside" any good?

― J.D. (Justyn Dillingham), Thursday, 2 September 2004 01:09 (twenty-one years ago)

No.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Thursday, 2 September 2004 01:11 (twenty-one years ago)

Never heard it. I doubt it.
I heard that song "Teenage Whore" is good though.
Girls were very angry back then.

― Nowell, Thursday, 2 September 2004 01:20 (twenty-one years ago)

Oh for cryin' out loud, Fuck Michael Jackson!

For once in this thread I'm in agreement with Alex

― Elvis Telecom (Chris Barrus), Thursday, 2 September 2004 01:23 (twenty-one years ago)

Malibu is a catchy little tune, but I wouldn't like it half as much without the ugly undercurrent she, herself gives to it. No use for the rest though.

― Kim (Kim), Thursday, 2 September 2004 01:47 (twenty-one years ago)

"She Walks On Me" is one of my favorites.

This is kinda embarrassing, but when I first heard her sing that line in "Asking for It" - "Live through this and I swear that I would die for you," or something like that - I actually cried.

"Doll Parts" is also excellent. Heartbreaking, too.

― Nowell, Thursday, 2 September 2004 01:54 (twenty-one years ago)

I love love love "Heaven Tonight", that Primitives/Beatlesy/Altered Images sound, those horsey imagery--it just sends me! I can't believe they never released it as a single. And "Awful" is such a funny/sad song about that whole scene--"I was punk! Now I'm just stupid! I'm so awful!" I'm surprised her detractors don't at least like that one.

I hate the corny Chinatown/LA dystopia images on the cover and the insert, although the nod to the cover of the Gun Club's Miami is sort of nice.

Tim Finney--sorry I missed your comments about Eric Erlandson just three posts above mine. I wonder if he's retired? He used to be a real man-about-town, EfH, but I rarely see him out anymore. Not that I get out much, though.

― Arthur (Arthur), Thursday, 2 September 2004 02:02 (twenty-one years ago)

ah, I was hoping Nowell would get in on this thread.

― AaronHz (AaronHz), Thursday, 2 September 2004 02:07 (twenty-one years ago)

AaronHz - can I call you Aaron? - I knew you'd say something patronizing like that. NOT THAT I CARE.

― Nowell, Thursday, 2 September 2004 02:09 (twenty-one years ago)

ah, I was hoping Nowell would get in on this thread.

how is this a patronizing statement?

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Thursday, 2 September 2004 02:12 (twenty-one years ago)

It just is.

Wait, am I using the word "patronizing" correctly?

(Also, I'm leaving in less than twenty minutes.)

― Nowell, Thursday, 2 September 2004 02:14 (twenty-one years ago)

no you misunderstand me.
I meant that you're someone young enough to genuinely like Hole without feeling the need to try to justify it to us bunch of snobs with a lot of nonsense.

― AaronHz (AaronHz), Thursday, 2 September 2004 02:23 (twenty-one years ago)

But why do you wanna be a snob? Snobs suck. I listen to lame shit, and I don't really care what anyone thinks.

― Nowell, Thursday, 2 September 2004 02:25 (twenty-one years ago)

Which is exactly why I was hoping you would get in on this thread.

― AaronHz (AaronHz), Thursday, 2 September 2004 02:28 (twenty-one years ago)

Mm-hmm.

Dammit, I know I'm gonna have to leave any minute now...

― Nowell, Thursday, 2 September 2004 02:32 (twenty-one years ago)

listening to LTT for the first time in a while, inspired by this thread...it really does hold up well, especially relative to 90's alt-rock in general (which for me always skewed more toward Pearl Jam than Nirvana anyway). "Miss World" has really grown on me over the years, I love the way it build to the first chorus.

― Al (sitcom), Thursday, 2 September 2004 02:46 (twenty-one years ago)

I don't know if I'd vote for it, but I'd consider nominating it for the 90's poll if it hasn't been already.

― Al (sitcom), Thursday, 2 September 2004 02:47 (twenty-one years ago)

i don't like courtney love very much because she wasted so much energy slagging off riot grrrl, its so backward! and this slagging-off is all over live through this. but i'm going to be perfectly honest and say right here that if i'd never heard hole i might never have found out about riot grrrl. but thats not all live through this means to me - the songs are great, they rock hard and courtney's voice is so blisteringly fantastically raw. i really need to get my own copy.

courtney introduced to me the idea that i could be a rock bitch, and the riot grrrls drove it home. i haven't heard any other hole albums. i had the misfortune of hearing "mono" recently and found it boring and lifeless.

― The Lady Ms Lurex (lucylurex), Thursday, 2 September 2004 03:23 (twenty-one years ago)

>I heard that song "Teenage Whore" is good though.
Girls were very angry back then. <

This is my favorite comment on this entire thread, I think!

― chuck, Thursday, 2 September 2004 16:40 (twenty-one years ago)

Yeah, I loved that one too, Chuck.

― Kevin Gilchrist (Mr Fusion), Thursday, 2 September 2004 17:05 (twenty-one years ago)

what's interesting, is that the songs that everyone credits kurt cobain with writing were at least partially formed before they met."violet" and "doll parts" were both recorded at maida vale for john peel in 1991, and unless one of the first things cobain did when he met courtney was to write her a couple of singles, whilst also writing "nevermind" , i don't really think it seems awfully plausible. just a thought.

― laura joyce (snow white), Wednesday, 8 September 2004 13:59 (twenty-one years ago)

Xpost

What's so great about what I said?

― Nowell, Wednesday, 8 September 2004 19:12 (twenty-one years ago)

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