buck 65 - "the more i've educated myself about music, the more i hate hip-hop"

Message Bookmarked
Bookmark Removed
quotes excerpted from kerrang interview
(via okayplaya forums/hiphopmusic.com)

"I now hate hip hop, the more I've educated myself about music, the more I've grown to hate it. I don’t use that word lightly, either."

"The change on the new record is me taking steps to try to be regarded as a proper songwriter and not just someone who writes lyrics. Those efforts could lend the idea that ive commercialised what I do, but when I think of the greatest records I've heard, everything from nirvana to my bloody valentine to miles davis and elvis, there's a lot you can do within the traditional framework of traditional songwriting."

"The people behind hip hop don’t know anything about music theory or have any appreciation for other kinds of music outside hip hop. I challenge anyone to show me a case where theres actual musicality."

kerrang: Explain why you – a rapper –hate hip hop?

"Every genre of music you can think of has more shit in it than it does gold; what I'm thinking about is the fact that I would be surprised if anyone could show me someone who's made a hip hop record who could actually read music."

kerrang: Why should musicians have to be able to read music?

"Because I'm a snob and that’s what I'm looking for and what I appreciate. I'm as elitist a bastard as you could possibly find."

mark p (Mark P), Wednesday, 1 September 2004 16:10 (twenty years ago)

links:
http://www.okayplayer.com/dcforum/lesson/120523.html
http://www.hiphopmusic.com/archives/000631.html

mark p (Mark P), Wednesday, 1 September 2004 16:11 (twenty years ago)

i'm not surprised, but still, this is depressing.

mark p (Mark P), Wednesday, 1 September 2004 16:12 (twenty years ago)

That's his (shitty) album going out of the window.

Jimmybommy JimmyK'KANG (Nick Southall), Wednesday, 1 September 2004 16:13 (twenty years ago)

buck in 2003: "I'm working a list of my 100 favorite albums of all time. It's hard. But I'm almost there. I'll share it with you when I'm done. Rolling Stone magazine just came out with their list of the 500 "Greatest Albums of All Time". It's interesting. All the same ones are there. Lots of Beatles and Dylan in the top ten. The Beach Boys. The Stones. Bob Marley. Miles Davis. Nirvana. You know... I agree that all these albums are very important and we should own all of them. It's important. I've said it a million times, but what I hope to achieve the most in this world, is to make a record that would appear on a list like that some day. I may never. Heck, probably won't. But that's my motivation. You may say, what's the use. Those lists are so arbitrary or dumb or whatever. But the fact is, all the same albums always appear at the tops of these lists. That must mean something... And how must it feel to be one of those artists? What could be a greater accomplishment than that?

Anyway, what I can do, is give you my top ten for this year. It goes like this:

1. Alan Lomax - Blues Songbook
2. Bonnie 'Prince' Billy - Master and Everyone
3. Yeah Yeah Yeahs - Fever To Tell
4. Bic Runga - Beautiful Collision
5. the White Stripes - Elephant
6. The Kills - Keep On Your Mean Side
7. Roscoe Holcomb - Untamed Sense of Control
8. The Strokes - Room on Fire
9. Radiohead - Hail To The Thief
10. Broadcast - Ha Ha Sound"

mark p (Mark P), Wednesday, 1 September 2004 16:15 (twenty years ago)

Everything's comin' up indie.

nabisco (nabisco), Wednesday, 1 September 2004 16:17 (twenty years ago)

what a dick. regardless, i can never loathe buck65 due to the interview with him i once read where he said he got a hard-on every time he looked at the cover of ladytron's "softcore jukebox"

Felonious Drunk (Felcher), Wednesday, 1 September 2004 16:21 (twenty years ago)

ack - so sad

cinniblount (James Blount), Wednesday, 1 September 2004 16:22 (twenty years ago)

i blame Geir

jake b. (cerybut), Wednesday, 1 September 2004 16:28 (twenty years ago)

maybe he's feeling the pressure of being named "Hot Indie Rapper" a couple issues back in Rolling Stone, for the always spot-on Hot List issue

Gregory T (tubesocks), Wednesday, 1 September 2004 16:32 (twenty years ago)

This totally cracks me up, for some reason. Wow. Is this the first instance ever of an artist basically saying that he is going to tool his future to the impressing of music critics?? It almost seems like a parody of the neurotic self-importance that hundreds of artists have succumbed to before, except he's being so BLATANT about it. It's like he's saying he's going to turn into Nick Hornby before our eyes! And thing is, I really like a lot of his music. I'll expect to like it a lot less from now on, but who knows? Maybe I'll be surprised.

chuck, Wednesday, 1 September 2004 16:32 (twenty years ago)

So who USED to be his favorite rappers? Did he have any? Now I'm curious. (He supposdly has a gigantic record collection, but that top 10 looks pretty pathetic!!)

chuck, Wednesday, 1 September 2004 16:37 (twenty years ago)

isnt this like andre3000 saying in interviews that he stopped listening to hip hop and was more into the ramones, white stripes, etc etc.

dickvandyke (dickvandyke), Wednesday, 1 September 2004 16:38 (twenty years ago)

oh canada.

s1ocki (slutsky), Wednesday, 1 September 2004 16:40 (twenty years ago)

Is this the first instance ever of an artist basically saying that he is going to tool his future to the impressing of music critics??

the irony is that reading this all I could think of is all the critic fans he has that he'll be pissing off!

CeCe Peniston (Anthony Miccio), Wednesday, 1 September 2004 16:41 (twenty years ago)

"The people behind hip hop don’t know anything about music theory or have any appreciation for other kinds of music outside hip hop. (my emphasis)

I think the second part of the sentence is far more deluded from the first. That's way more elitist than anything else he said.

Barry Bruner (Barry Bruner), Wednesday, 1 September 2004 16:45 (twenty years ago)

er ... deluded *than* the first.

Barry Bruner (Barry Bruner), Wednesday, 1 September 2004 16:45 (twenty years ago)

chuck: buck hosted a pretty influential nova scotia hip-hop college radio show back in the day. this was in the early 90s (i think) so you'd be hard pressed to find playlists anymore, but as far as i'm aware, his hip-hop knowledge goes (went?) far and deep.

mark p (Mark P), Wednesday, 1 September 2004 16:46 (twenty years ago)

Aren't most critics pro-rap these days?

CeCe Peniston (Anthony Miccio), Wednesday, 1 September 2004 16:46 (twenty years ago)

haha NO

mark p (Mark P), Wednesday, 1 September 2004 16:47 (twenty years ago)

yeah, strangely most aren't, although many'll make token gestures of support to some 'positive' or 'progressive' hip-hop act, although the way they talk about these guys you can tell they don't listen to them either

cinniblount (James Blount), Wednesday, 1 September 2004 16:49 (twenty years ago)

yeah, I guess I tend to ignore how old school rockist regional critics are. But if the blogosphere is any indication, this is going to be a more and more antiquated concept.

CeCe Peniston (Anthony Miccio), Wednesday, 1 September 2004 16:52 (twenty years ago)

I mean, fuck, I'm nobody's hip-hop head and this stuff strikes me as hysterical.

CeCe Peniston (Anthony Miccio), Wednesday, 1 September 2004 16:53 (twenty years ago)

if you threw out all yr records of people who couldn't read music, all you'd have left is burt bachrach and poison.

g--ff (gcannon), Wednesday, 1 September 2004 16:53 (twenty years ago)

OTM.

latebloomer (latebloomer), Wednesday, 1 September 2004 16:54 (twenty years ago)

He just wants his write-up in No Depression, dammit!

He is a pretty lousy rapper-qua-rapper, but he's a very impressive hip hop artist.

Huck, Wednesday, 1 September 2004 16:55 (twenty years ago)

also there's something really weird about someone wanting to be a "proper songwriter" and big upping Nirvana and MBV.

CeCe Peniston (Anthony Miccio), Wednesday, 1 September 2004 16:57 (twenty years ago)

blount otm - that's exactly what's happening with the new k-os record in canada right now. dude makes some empty gestures re: the death of hip-hop, samples "funky drummer" (have you guys heard this track? there's this one break...) and couches it all in wyclef-style eclectism and apparently he's on some next level shit!

(xpost)

mark p (Mark P), Wednesday, 1 September 2004 16:57 (twenty years ago)

Wait, this is off the topic, but why is he being interviewed in Kerrang?? He only has one heavy metal song!!!!

chuck, Wednesday, 1 September 2004 16:59 (twenty years ago)

On one level it seems that the structural elements of hip-hop are being more and more incorporated into the underground and mainstream, but on another it seems like standard "hip-hop" is inspiring a lot of disdain. I'm guessing it's gonna be another "disco sucks but everything on the radio has a drum machine and the kids are into new wave" deal.

CeCe Peniston (Anthony Miccio), Wednesday, 1 September 2004 17:01 (twenty years ago)

and as one of the dudes on the hiphopmusic.com comments box alludes to, didn't white critics use that same "but they can't read music" attack to diminish much of early/mid-period jazz?

mark p (Mark P), Wednesday, 1 September 2004 17:03 (twenty years ago)

Obviously part of what's funny about this is that hip-hop has always made a POINT of knowing about, and using, all other kinds of music (except for a few years here and there when it decided to climb up its own butthole, anyway)..But anyway, doesn't Timbaland also say hip-hop is boring now, so he only listens to bluegrass and Norah Jones and Radiohead and stuff? Maybe they should make a record together!

chuck, Wednesday, 1 September 2004 17:03 (twenty years ago)

I love both k-os and Buck 65, and I love them as hip hop artists. I think k-os's new record works in ways the Wyclef's never been able to (on account of Wyclef being a corny MF). It's weird that they're both from Canada (which has a rock crit enclave of aging rockists who take their cues from B!11board and usually "don't get" any music that couldn't have been made by Neil Young--present company excepted) and both filled with such corny Cdn angst w/r/t defining themselves as what they're not.

Huck, Wednesday, 1 September 2004 17:04 (twenty years ago)

toronto's got at least two rockcrit minds i respect a great deal

cinniblount (James Blount), Wednesday, 1 September 2004 17:05 (twenty years ago)

does Rush fit into this canuck aesthetic anywhere?

CeCe Peniston (Anthony Miccio), Wednesday, 1 September 2004 17:06 (twenty years ago)

I mean, hip-hop is certainly way more eclectic in incorporating sounds from elsewhere than most of the genres Buck seems to be opting for now, judging from that list!

xpost

Scott Woods and Phil Dellio are from Toronto, and they are both great.

chuck, Wednesday, 1 September 2004 17:06 (twenty years ago)

and if Timba made that "Headsprung" track than at the very least he doesn't feel the need to put his hip-hop disdain into practice, thank god.

CeCe Peniston (Anthony Miccio), Wednesday, 1 September 2004 17:07 (twenty years ago)

Hey, I didn't say all cdn rockcrits were fuddy-duds, just that there's a bunch who believe OLP will rise again to save us all Keshia Chante.

Huck, Wednesday, 1 September 2004 17:08 (twenty years ago)

yeah huck i don't know if canada's rockcrit contingent is that qualitatively different from america's as a whole - i can think of at least five fantastic thinkers in toronto alone.

(xpost keshia chante > olp!!)

mark p (Mark P), Wednesday, 1 September 2004 17:11 (twenty years ago)

Aaron Wherry, in the Nat'l Post, is usally pretty good too.

But, I don't know, maybe it's more out west, or maybe it's that I keep having run ins with the worst. But, um, yeah, I have some specific beefs with some maybe not-so significant rockcrits who perpetuate the myth that hip hop is only legitimate when it apes singer/songwriter conventions.

Huck, Wednesday, 1 September 2004 17:16 (twenty years ago)

yeah Woods and Dellio ARE great but chuck if you read papers like the Toronto Star you'll notice that even if the critic is good (Ben Rayner), some moldy old chump will fawn over whatever Cancon default choice is being touted this month. boring critics the world over may have repped Ron Sexsmith like the second coming for far too long, but Boring Canadian critics will be writing 'why has the world ignored this genius' pieces until we are all dead. Huck OTM. (and wasn't Tim leading the charge for the greatness of Coldplay, along with Beyonce and Puffy and god knows who else?)

Dave M. (rotten03), Wednesday, 1 September 2004 17:16 (twenty years ago)

whoa xpost

Dave M. (rotten03), Wednesday, 1 September 2004 17:17 (twenty years ago)

hahahahaha Ron Sexsmith

CeCe Peniston (Anthony Miccio), Wednesday, 1 September 2004 17:18 (twenty years ago)

i mean goddamn when I finally heard that guy...

CeCe Peniston (Anthony Miccio), Wednesday, 1 September 2004 17:18 (twenty years ago)

ps I dig Keshia Chante she needs dance (or at least movement) classes.

Huck, Wednesday, 1 September 2004 17:18 (twenty years ago)

fuck i was once dragged to a ron sexsmith show and dude played like every one of his songs! it went on for like 4 hours

s1ocki (slutsky), Wednesday, 1 September 2004 17:19 (twenty years ago)

"influential nova scotia hip-hop college radio show "

Gear! (Gear!), Wednesday, 1 September 2004 17:20 (twenty years ago)

changed Sloan's life

CeCe Peniston (Anthony Miccio), Wednesday, 1 September 2004 17:21 (twenty years ago)

haha

cinniblount (James Blount), Wednesday, 1 September 2004 17:21 (twenty years ago)

is that what turned them into Chicago?

Huck, Wednesday, 1 September 2004 17:22 (twenty years ago)

wtf is so great about being "weird" anyway!?

after your "$1.65" post I'm not sure anymore. Weirdo.

manthony m1cc1o (Anthony Miccio), Saturday, 4 September 2004 16:06 (twenty years ago)

i don't know about "weird," but nellie furtado definitely has more teena marie in her than nellie mckay does.

OTM.

(Also: wtf ever happened to Teena Marie, anyway?)

Tantrum The Cat (Tantrum The Cat), Saturday, 4 September 2004 16:10 (twenty years ago)

1+6+5=12
1+2=3
3 is not divisible by five.

i guess he's alright after all.

165/5 = 53. dunno what that means?

Sterling Clover (s_clover), Saturday, 4 September 2004 16:11 (twenty years ago)

Also: wtf ever happened to Teena Marie, anyway?

Didn't Chuck say she had a new album last year?

Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 4 September 2004 16:14 (twenty years ago)

she just did a huge tour with rick jame right before he passed, i wanted to go but it sold out in atlanta in like six hours. her new album did reasonably well from what i can tell.

cinniblount (James Blount), Saturday, 4 September 2004 16:15 (twenty years ago)

http://freespace.virgin.net/ecliptica.ww/book/weisshau.jpg

MATH BLASTER MYSTERY! (ex machina), Saturday, 4 September 2004 16:16 (twenty years ago)

The new Teena Marie album debuted in the top 10!

manthony m1cc1o (Anthony Miccio), Saturday, 4 September 2004 16:21 (twenty years ago)

Does Cash Money + Stairway To Hell mean it was rap-metal?

manthony m1cc1o (Anthony Miccio), Saturday, 4 September 2004 16:21 (twenty years ago)

i'm pretty sure the new one didn't have any metal and my understanding is it wasn't very partyharty either (she's still looking good going by the cover).

cinniblount (James Blount), Saturday, 4 September 2004 16:26 (twenty years ago)

How did get so high on the charts? I thought Cash Money was past its prime, and I sure as fuck was under the impression Teena was.

manthony m1cc1o (Anthony Miccio), Saturday, 4 September 2004 16:29 (twenty years ago)

was it the Musicology audience?

manthony m1cc1o (Anthony Miccio), Saturday, 4 September 2004 16:29 (twenty years ago)

i'm guessing it got so high on the charts cuz it got a good deal of prerelease publicity and she's always had a pretty sizeable fanbase?

cinniblount (James Blount), Saturday, 4 September 2004 16:32 (twenty years ago)

Yeah, same reason Luther went number one last year.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 4 September 2004 16:33 (twenty years ago)

luther beating radiohead and metallica for number one last year was best 'keep hope alive' moment of this decade easy

cinniblount (James Blount), Saturday, 4 September 2004 16:37 (twenty years ago)

yeah but wasn't Luther in the hospital when the album came out? Plus J Records can get hella shady with sales figures. I didn't realize the Teena Marie album got much publicity.

manthony m1cc1o (Anthony Miccio), Saturday, 4 September 2004 16:38 (twenty years ago)

in atlanta it (and especially the show) were a HUGE DEAL

cinniblount (James Blount), Saturday, 4 September 2004 16:38 (twenty years ago)

three weeks pass...
So i talked to Buck about this today and he says he's sorry and that he was drunk, though i imagine he was kidding about the drunk part.

ken taylrr (ken taylrr), Tuesday, 28 September 2004 02:25 (twenty years ago)

Further to that, from the letters section of the latest Exclaim (with the Junior Boys on the cover):

"Hello, this is Buck 65 writing in a pre-emptive attempt to address the little controversy brewing over my recent Kerrang! interview. In the interview I said that hip-hop people are ignorant, have no appreciation for other genres of music and that I'd be surprised if anyone could show me an example of a rapper that could read music. I'm apologising for all that. I lost my cool on tape, which is never good. The journalist was provoking me, calling me a sell-out and a whore. I was trying to make a point by playing devil's advocate, but I went way overboard. No hint of irony or role-playing or intelligence came across in the story. Now I just look like an idiot. I don't think being able to read music is a concern. Most of my favourite music was made by non-educated musicians. I still have heavy criticisms of most hip-hop, but I really didn't make them well on this particular day.

Posted by Buck 65"

Eoin Quigley (Eoin), Saturday, 2 October 2004 19:24 (twenty years ago)

two years pass...

what a douche

gershy, Saturday, 7 July 2007 17:11 (eighteen years ago)

this thread may be the last time I heard anything about Buck 65.

da croupier, Saturday, 7 July 2007 17:34 (eighteen years ago)

awwwww, illusions shattered pt. 5,000,000

; ;
^

wanko ergo sum, Saturday, 7 July 2007 17:41 (eighteen years ago)

three months pass...

does he still hate hip-hop? Or has he taken a few political science courses? or has he read Howard Zinn?

Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 03:06 (seventeen years ago)

He's had his passion for hip-hop reawakened by Kanye West, like so many broadsheet music critics.

Dom Passantino, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 08:22 (seventeen years ago)

A sensible rapper for once.....

Geir Hongro, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 08:27 (seventeen years ago)

i think the word you're looking for is "white".

jed_, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 13:49 (seventeen years ago)

two weeks pass...

confounding sentence in vv review:

Nova Scotian fringe rapper Richard Terfry's version of old-school harks back to 1957, before rock 'n' roll itself, but he's never sounded more hip-hop in his life.

before rock'n'roll? itself? 1957?

tipsy mothra, Friday, 9 November 2007 05:42 (seventeen years ago)

takes a long time for things to get to the maritimes?

hstencil, Friday, 9 November 2007 05:54 (seventeen years ago)

First half of the new album is fatastic.

Whiney G. Weingarten, Friday, 9 November 2007 16:19 (seventeen years ago)

!

BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Friday, 9 November 2007 16:38 (seventeen years ago)

the more ive educated myself about hip-hop, the more i hate buck 65

and what, Friday, 9 November 2007 16:38 (seventeen years ago)

ppl are allowed to hate hip-hop.

Dr Morbius, Friday, 9 November 2007 17:54 (seventeen years ago)

or say they do. or not be sure.

Dr Morbius, Friday, 9 November 2007 17:55 (seventeen years ago)

this album blows

Curt1s Stephens, Friday, 9 November 2007 17:56 (seventeen years ago)

self-hating rapper

Jordan, Friday, 9 November 2007 17:59 (seventeen years ago)

I'd guess that at least a few big hip-hop producers know how to read music, if not rappers as well.

Hurting 2, Friday, 9 November 2007 18:09 (seventeen years ago)

herbhop. worst song titles. not lyrical.

Humphry, Friday, 9 November 2007 19:52 (seventeen years ago)

he dont even get 2 hot tracks just mundane post blink pop punk

Humphry, Saturday, 10 November 2007 09:57 (seventeen years ago)

bullshit

Humphry, Saturday, 10 November 2007 09:57 (seventeen years ago)

Completely ignorant. How many pop musicians read music? I know they don't all do it.

I'm a musician and I read it but I don't hold those who don't in contempt.

Besides, hip hop rules.

Bo Jackson Overdrive, Monday, 12 November 2007 17:13 (seventeen years ago)

one year passes...

Explain why you – a rapper –hate hip hop?

buzza, Monday, 5 January 2009 06:32 (sixteen years ago)

five months pass...

This fifteen track record is a highly unconventional take on the world of hip hop, even for a guy like Buck 65, who is at the forefront of the experimental rap frontier. The most stand out element of the album is its highly ambient, composer-esqe electronic nature, which is a signature of G.F.T.’s work; constantly shifting intensity, tempo, and mood.

The most impressive aspect of this record is Buck 65’s ability to deliverer lyrics that flow effortlessly with the unconventional beats. And beyond that, Buck 65 has taken his stylistic approach to rap and kicked it up to a new level, delivering thought provoking introspective spoken word- like lyrics worthy of Def Jam acclaim.

In order to be fully appreciated, More Heart Than Brains needs to be listened to multiple times. Due to the highly unorthodox sound it presents, it might fool unfamiliar listeners into thinking it’s simply a dark and depressed record. However, once the newness has been absorbed, the tone and feeling of the album drastically brighten as new aspects are revealed.

http://www.urb.com/features/1486/INTERVIEWBuck65onBikeForThree.php

velko, Monday, 29 June 2009 19:37 (sixteen years ago)

Hahahahahaha. "the forefront of the experimental rap frontier."

maciej recognizing trill, Monday, 29 June 2009 20:44 (sixteen years ago)

thought provoking introspective spoken word- like lyrics

velko, Monday, 29 June 2009 20:58 (sixteen years ago)

some very ambiguous hyphenation going on there

thomp, Monday, 29 June 2009 21:22 (sixteen years ago)

like apparently there are words in his lyrics

alternatively, he delivers thought-provoking introspective spoken-word, as lyrics worthy of Def Jam acclaim also do

thomp, Monday, 29 June 2009 21:23 (sixteen years ago)

google translated from german, surely

❉❉❉❉❉❉❉❉Plaxico❉❉❉❉❉❉❉❉❉ (I know, right?), Monday, 29 June 2009 21:27 (sixteen years ago)

Buck 65 delivers thoughts that provoke in you, the listener, introspective spoken words, which are like lyrics that Def Jam would acclaim. Those introspective spoken words will be, "Why am I listening to Buck 65?"

I have broken the code.

dad a, Monday, 29 June 2009 21:38 (sixteen years ago)

I remember when Talkin Honky Blues came out and it got a lot of broadsheet kisses and I bought it thinking it sounded pretty cool and it wasn't. I expected some sort of dustbowl Timbaland-futurism-as-Mad-Max-dystopia but instead you just get this dry, grooveless shallow record with lame "left of centre" lyrics. It just sounded like, yeah, hiphop for people who don't like hip hop. That's not entirely true, there was one that was okay in a rubbish asher roth omg i'm totally white lyrics way. I'd be pretty surprised if his lyrics were really thought-provoking now.

❉❉❉❉❉❉❉❉Plaxico❉❉❉❉❉❉❉❉❉ (I know, right?), Monday, 29 June 2009 21:53 (sixteen years ago)

one year passes...

Just heard a song by this guy on YouTube, and it's probably in the bottom 5% of the absolute worst shit I've ever heard. Excruciatingly awful, how-the-fuck-did-this-guy-get-a-record-contract bad. Why does anyone like this guy? And what the fuck is with his comments at the top of this page?

Lazarus Niles-Burnham (res), Wednesday, 22 December 2010 04:07 (fourteen years ago)

This sort of thing is pointless, but I love making lists… So, what the heck, here’s my list of my favorite albums of 2010:

1. Karen Elson – The Ghost Who Walks
2. Sage Francis – Li(f)e
3. Sleigh Bells – Treats
4. Neil Young – Le Noise
5. Joanna Newsom – Have One On Me
6. Charlotte Gainsbourg – IRM
7. Broken Social Scene – Forgiveness Rock Record
8. Sufjan Stevens – The Age Of Adz
9. Jack Rose – Luck In the Valley
10. Cut Chemist – Sound Of The Police

Honorable mentions to Glasser, Scout Niblett, Shad, Frazey Ford, Warpaint, Land Of Talk, Curtis Plum and Sharon Jones.

It should also be noted that the records I listened to most in the last year were all old records. The record I listened to most in 2010, once again, was probably Pink Flag by Wire, followed closely by Yo! Bumrush The Show by Public Enemy.

That’s all for now.

Buck

buzza, Wednesday, 22 December 2010 04:27 (fourteen years ago)


You must be logged in to post. Please either login here, or if you are not registered, you may register here.