Can - finally remastered

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From the spoon website:

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CAN REMASTERED EDITIONS
Monster Movie, Tago Mago
Ege Bamyasi and Soundtracks
RELEASE DATE - 25th OCTOBER 2004

Can release remastered versions of their classic albums, Monster Movie, Tago Mago, Ege Bamyasi and Soundtracks on The Grey Area of Mute/Spoon on 25th October 2004.

The albums were all remastered from the original master tapes and were overseen and attended by Holger, Irmin and Jono Podmore, so that they finally sounded on CD how they were always intended to sound.

...

All four remastered CD releases will also play on SACD players and SACD compatible DVD players and will include exclusive unseen photos from the time and new sleeve notes.

==================================

this has been too long coming.

― phil turnbull (philT), Wednesday, 1 September 2004 19:54 (twenty years ago) link

doh

― ())(())()()()(()(LASER)()()()LA(Z)E(R)()()()((L)()()(A)(S(E)R()()()) (ex machina, Wednesday, 1 September 2004 19:57 (twenty years ago) link

sweet. i hope they send these to teh college radio.

― artdamages (artdamages), Wednesday, 1 September 2004 19:58 (twenty years ago) link

Have they always sounded bad on cd? I've only heard them and had them on vinyl (which sound excellent).

― scott seward (scott seward), Wednesday, 1 September 2004 19:58 (twenty years ago) link

If these are as good as the similar Dylan multi-format remasters, then we are in we for a treat.

― Baaderoni (Fabfunk), Wednesday, 1 September 2004 20:01 (twenty years ago) link

They never sounded like shit, so I guess they're being fed through the Louderizer.

― pdf (Phil Freeman), Wednesday, 1 September 2004 20:11 (twenty years ago) link

Isn't this like the 3rd or 4th cd edition of these things so far?

― Monetizing Eyeballs (diamond), Wednesday, 1 September 2004 20:19 (twenty years ago) link

spoon vinyl rulz.

― scott seward (scott seward), Wednesday, 1 September 2004 20:21 (twenty years ago) link

I just got Tago Mago on vinyl, is the sacd going to be one of these "better than the original!" recordings? I sure hope not.

― mike h. (mike h.), Wednesday, 1 September 2004 20:21 (twenty years ago) link

phew. luckily i only already own tago mago on CD right now.

― AaronHz (AaronHz), Wednesday, 1 September 2004 20:22 (twenty years ago) link

Whenever I get a Can song on my iPod, it is remarkably quieter and softer than the other songs on the iPod, forcing me to adjust the car/whatever volumne, so even if all the discs get is a once-over with the Louderizer, I'll be happy. But if they get cleaned up as well as those Fleetwood Mac discs, then we're in for a treat, since I still hear all sorts of stuff on the Mac remasters that I never knew existed in the first place.

― Josh in Chicago (Josh in Chicago), Wednesday, 1 September 2004 20:26 (twenty years ago) link

come to think of it, in the 80's i did have a couple can cds. the one with "can can" on it and one other one. they sounded fine. i don't think i had heard them on vinyl before buying them(or since)though.

― scott seward (scott seward), Wednesday, 1 September 2004 20:28 (twenty years ago) link

why is Future Days always left out? it never even got the vinyl treatment...

― BbetaA, Wednesday, 1 September 2004 20:37 (twenty years ago) link

I don't see how remastering masterpieces like these can possibly improve upon them. But hey, to each his own.

― Bimble (bimble), Wednesday, 1 September 2004 20:39 (twenty years ago) link

right: it's officially time for me to fill the embarrassing can-shaped hole in my collection. what better excuse? i have *no idea* how i don't own any can. i've even bought can albums for friends as presents. gah, i'm crap.

― grimly fiendish (grimlord), Wednesday, 1 September 2004 20:41 (twenty years ago) link

Have they always sounded bad on cd?

Nope.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 1 September 2004 20:46 (twenty years ago) link

what's wrong with the cds that spoon put out? never listened to them and thought "if only these were re-mastered."

― joseph pot (STINKOR™), Wednesday, 1 September 2004 20:49 (twenty years ago) link

I'd hardly consider myself to be a vinyl snob, but in the case of Can the cds have always sounded considerably inferior to the original records. Here's hoping for the remasters !

― Brad Laner (Brad Laner), Wednesday, 1 September 2004 20:51 (twenty years ago) link

spoon vinyl rulz.

Really? I only have one LP on Spoon, but the vinyl's not all that hot, especially in contrast to my original pressings of other Can LPs on United Artists and Virgin.

― Vic Funk, Wednesday, 1 September 2004 20:53 (twenty years ago) link

I've owned can records on virgin, ua, and spoon and they all sounded fine. most of the early stuff i have now is spoon 80's-era vinyl. i think i even had a record on Receiver! but i could be mistaken.

― scott seward (scott seward), Wednesday, 1 September 2004 20:57 (twenty years ago) link

most of the early stuff i have now is spoon 80's-era vinyl

Oh, I thought you meant the Spoon vinyl reissues from 2003. That's what I have for Monster Movie.

― Vic Funk, Wednesday, 1 September 2004 21:14 (twenty years ago) link

yeah, I've never heard recent vinyl reissues. who made them? I know I saw them all over the place for a while. I mean, were they German-made or did someone else do it for them. I think my copy of Out Of Reach was on Receiver. Or maybe another Charly-like label. I know I still have a UA Tago Mago and maybe Soon Over Babaluma as well. Did Virgin put out Future Days? My mind is gone. I will have to look sometime.

― scott seward (scott seward), Wednesday, 1 September 2004 21:19 (twenty years ago) link

I'm kinda pissed that Future Days is slipping beneath the radar again, too, because I'm really only interested in the three Damo albums.

― pdf (Phil Freeman), Wednesday, 1 September 2004 21:45 (twenty years ago) link

Ha ha...it occurs to me that if Spoon are doing this to cash in, they'll probably see half the orders come in for remastered CD's and the other half will be an upsurge in vinyl orders!

xpost

― Bimble (bimble), Wednesday, 1 September 2004 21:46 (twenty years ago) link

I picture ILMers fencing each other brandishing remastered discs vs. vinyl albums...

― Bimble (bimble), Wednesday, 1 September 2004 21:48 (twenty years ago) link

well, i mean, if they sound waaaaaay better or something, then I guess it would be cool. But I honestly have always thought that all those records sounded GREAT to begin with. It is more understandable when the original artifact was mixed wrong or something. And even then someone can fuck up a remastering job and make it too shiny, too whatever, you know. (iggy pop to thread)

― scott seward (scott seward), Wednesday, 1 September 2004 21:52 (twenty years ago) link

when someone gets one tell us if they sound "waaaaaay" better because otherwise I will just buy the old castoff versions at reduced prices

― artdamages (artdamages), Wednesday, 1 September 2004 21:55 (twenty years ago) link

why is Can vinyl always roughly $20+? I have never witnessed this phenomenon with any other artist, import or no. It's just ridiculous, it's not like the albums are longer, or harder to manufacture or anything like that. But a big reason I don't own the entire Can discography is because that shit is overpriced EVERYWHERE.

― Shakey Mo Collier, Wednesday, 1 September 2004 22:17 (twenty years ago) link

I bought a Spoon CD of 'Soon Over Babaluma' some years ago. It sounded awful and the packaging was/is rubbish.

― Edmundo (Edmundo), Thursday, 2 September 2004 00:05 (twenty years ago) link

well dude, "Soon Over Babaluma" sucks!

― gainfully employed (ex machina), Thursday, 2 September 2004 00:47 (twenty years ago) link

― Brad Laner (Brad Laner), Thursday, 2 September 2004 01:00 (twenty years ago) link

yeah, what he said.

― scott seward (scott seward), Thursday, 2 September 2004 01:03 (twenty years ago) link

My CD copy of Future Days was cheaply manufactured, I can hold it up to my eye and easily see right through it (way more so than with other CDs that don't have a thick label). Once it got a couple small scratches it skipped all the time. I managed to make a CD-R copy of it which has played fine for years.

― wetmink (wetmink), Thursday, 2 September 2004 01:20 (twenty years ago) link

Have they always sounded bad on cd?

well, i think they've always sounded poor... on the vinyl i've owned and the cds. i'm not that much of a vinyl junky anyway but my copy of Ege Bamyasi has seen far better days. all of the cds i've heard have low volume mastering and a thin slightly muddy sound. all of the cd issues have come from the same original cd master and the booklets haven't changed.

the last 're-issue' of these was at the time of the remix cd release and was, basically, just letting people know that they were still there.

I'd imagine that this was just the start of the re-issuing cycle, with 4 more in the next batch and so on. Let's hope they include the Tago/Ege era singles and B-Sides that are still only available on boots.

― phil turnbull (philT), Thursday, 2 September 2004 01:31 (twenty years ago) link

soon over babaluma fucking kills

― cutty (mcutt), Thursday, 2 September 2004 01:46 (twenty years ago) link

phil, if you lived near me I would invite you over to listen to my can records so you can hear how great they sound. but you probably don't live near me. so you'll just have to take my word for it.

― scott seward (scott seward), Thursday, 2 September 2004 01:49 (twenty years ago) link

Soon Over is the most underrated Can record, and IMO fits right in with the Damo records. I've posted on this many times before, but "Chain Reaction"/"Quantum Physics" was as good as Can got, perhaps as good as anyone got.

― dleone (dleone), Thursday, 2 September 2004 02:11 (twenty years ago) link

..and I will be very interested to hear what they were able to do with music recorded to 2-track stereo for the reissues.

― dleone (dleone), Thursday, 2 September 2004 02:12 (twenty years ago) link

soon belongs to michael karoli

― cutty (mcutt), Thursday, 2 September 2004 02:15 (twenty years ago) link

phil, if you lived near me I would invite you over to listen to my can records so you can hear how great they sound

a very kind offer and very possibly true. still like cds better than vinyl overall, though.

but "Chain Reaction"/"Quantum Physics" was as good as Can got, perhaps as good as anyone got

definitely up there with the rest of the things i love best.

― phil turnbull (philT), Thursday, 2 September 2004 04:11 (twenty years ago) link

Soon... isn't all that hot, really (this is coming from someone who loves Saw Delight).

Are the last batch (1998) of CDs really that terrible sounding to you, or are you judging on the basis of the Restless ones that came out in the late-80s? Cuz I've always thought the '98 reissues sounded great and I don't understand these complaints of "too quiet". Future Days is supposed to be quiet.

― Vic Funk, Thursday, 2 September 2004 11:37 (twenty years ago) link

I completely fail to see the point of this. Many of these rekkids were cheaply recorded, in some cases, I believe direct to 2-track. This is part of the appeal for me. I have the japanese "can box" set which IIRC is the same as the spoon reissues, only in double cd cases. The sound on these cds is basically the recordings converted to digital format w/o fucking around. The fear is they they'll be sent through the louderiser, as mentioned above, which will fucking suck.

― Pashmina (Pashmina), Thursday, 2 September 2004 11:45 (twenty years ago) link

There are people who don't like Saw Delight? I am learning new things about Can fans every day.

― scott seward (scott seward), Thursday, 2 September 2004 11:45 (twenty years ago) link

I think they're all pretty great. I a lot of ways, I like the later stuff best of all.

― Pashmina (Pashmina), Thursday, 2 September 2004 11:47 (twenty years ago) link

Thank fuck but WHY NO FUTURE DAYS?

― Jimmybommy JimmyK'KANG (Nick Southall), Thursday, 2 September 2004 11:50 (twenty years ago) link

Disco-period Can rules! Saw Delight/S-T etc etc are absolutely the best stuff they ever did.

I agree that the CDs sound crap - not enough bass is one problem, on the other hand I share Norman's concerns that they might be ruined.

― Dr. C (Dr. C), Thursday, 2 September 2004 12:02 (twenty years ago) link

More bass is U&K.

― Jimmybommy JimmyK'KANG (Nick Southall), Thursday, 2 September 2004 12:03 (twenty years ago) link

"more bass" might not actually even be present on the masters of some of the records in any meaningful way. I remember playing "Mother Sky" at a gig we were doinf the pa for, and no matter how much you turned up the bass on the desk channels, the kick remained inaudible. Some of these records were recorded in incredibly primitive studios, by people who weren't all that competent. You cannot magic into existence that which is not there (OK, you can dub extra tracks in, but do you want that?) besides which, if they do maximise the music it will suck, b/c I have never heard any music improved by this pro-cess. My fave can track to-day = "hunters and collectors"

― Pashmina (Pashmina), Thursday, 2 September 2004 12:19 (twenty years ago) link

Until I hear them I am going to daydream the difference as being as significant as that between the original Miles Davis CDs and the 1997-2001 remasters btw WHEN THE FUCK IS JACK JOHNSON OUT?

― Jimmybommy JimmyK'KANG (Nick Southall), Thursday, 2 September 2004 12:21 (twenty years ago) link

In the recently opened Rock'n'Pop Museum in Gronau, Germany, they've reconstructed the Ton studios that Can started using in 1971:
http://www.rock-popmuseum.de/contero/gallery/Bilder/canstudio.jpg
Now you can see with your own eyes how 'incredibly primitive' it actually was!

― willem (willem), Thursday, 2 September 2004 12:30 (twenty years ago) link

Skipping 86 messages at this point... Click here if you want to load them all.

I noticed that too, NTI, I expect "Gommorha" is just an excerpt from a Babaluma jam where they returned to the earlier chords. Don't the liners mention 1974? I forget...

It sounds very spontaneous, you can hear everyone settling into the sequence, noodling about.

― (Jon L), Thursday, 18 November 2004 20:36 (twenty years ago) link

Dec 1973, apparently, for the song, which I guess puts it right in line with when they would have been making Babaluma.

― Dominique (dleone), Thursday, 18 November 2004 21:02 (twenty years ago) link

Do we know if it is, in fact, "Dizzy Dizzy"?

― Naive Teen Idol (Naive Teen Idol), Thursday, 18 November 2004 21:03 (twenty years ago) link

I think you've got a particularly rarified but valid interview question there.

― (Jon L), Thursday, 18 November 2004 21:08 (twenty years ago) link

As a side-note, is it just me or is "Gommorha" almost an exact rip-off of another track ca. Babaluma? "Dizzy Dizzy" maybe? I can't remember exactly — but I'm guessing it's from the same sessions.

It doesn't sound anything like "Dizzy Dizzy"! However the intro section of "Cutaway" does sound like "Dizzy Dizzy" and so was obviously not recorded in May 1969, (there's another section too with synth on it that could not have come from 1969). Then again, bits of "Ibis" sound like "Dizzy Dizzy" too - tho possibly the bits edited out of the CD version as discussed above.

― De Doo Doo Doo De Da Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 19 November 2004 13:19 (twenty years ago) link

Have these things been dynamically maximised or not, does anyone know?

― Pashmina (Pashmina), Friday, 19 November 2004 13:30 (twenty years ago) link

Does anyone know what that means?

― De Doo Doo Doo De Da Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 19 November 2004 13:32 (twenty years ago) link

I think Pashmina means shoved through a T1 Ultramaximiser or some such to achieve maximum loudness and flatten the dynamics. Regrettably standard procedure with many reissue projects - making 70s live-to-tape sound as impactful as Destiny's Child (and just as airless).

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Friday, 19 November 2004 13:35 (twenty years ago) link

Given that "the albums were all remastered from the original master tapes and were overseen and attended by Holger, Irmin and Jono Podmore", I'm hoping that Holger and Irmin pooh-poohed that idea - can't speak for this Podmore fellow tho

― De Doo Doo Doo De Da Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 19 November 2004 13:38 (twenty years ago) link

It doesn't sound anything like "Dizzy Dizzy"!

That's because it wasn't "Gommorah" that sounded like "Dizzy Dizzy" — upon revisiting my CD collection last night, I realized it was the last track on Unlimited Edition I was thinking about, "Ibis". If you take the keyboard sound off of it and add Michael Karoli's vocals and violin, it's virtually the exact same track — same beat, same staccato guitar licks, everything. Though it dates from Sept. '74, which seems a little late, it sounds as if it might be them finding their way into "Dizzy Dizzy"...

― Naive Teen Idol (Naive Teen Idol), Friday, 19 November 2004 15:19 (twenty years ago) link

Have these things been dynamically maximised or not, does anyone know?

The dynamics sound similar.

If anything it sounds less processed than before - it's certainly less harsh and trebley than before.

My only gripe is there seems to be some kind of noise-reduction gate (or other noise reduection technique) which occasionaly gives a senation of "pumping".

― Chewshabadoo (Chewshabadoo), Friday, 19 November 2004 15:35 (twenty years ago) link

two months pass...

I heard that the next four in the Can catalogue (Future Days, Soon Over Babaluma, [Whatever Two Come Next]) are getting released in May. Can anyone confirm this?

Also, the vinyl remasters of the first four will be released with this batch of CDs... i mean, that's why i heard.

― poortheatre (poortheatre), Friday, 18 February 2005 06:05 (nineteen years ago) link

I have Can albums on CASSETTE. (I didn't have a CD player when the Mute reissues came out in '89 or so.)

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Friday, 18 February 2005 06:22 (nineteen years ago) link

That's great news about the vinyl, I've been after "Soundtracks" for years

― A Viking of Some Note (Andrew Thames), Friday, 18 February 2005 06:22 (nineteen years ago) link

ooh, remastered Landed and Flow Motion?

(though I wonder if they'll get to the oddities like "Turtle Have Short Legs" or any of the collections like Can Delay 1968)

― donut debonair (donut), Friday, 18 February 2005 07:26 (nineteen years ago) link

So what's the deal? Should I buy Can reissues on vinyl? What is this SACD business? Am I a sucker and is one born every minute? etc. etc. to be continued...

Tim has them on cassette. Ooh. Quite the rebel! The audacity of owning Can on cassette! Or not...etc etc etc ad infinitum.

I hear a voice saying "just own them on all possible formats, then you CAN maybe get some sleep at night"

― Bimble... (Bimble...), Friday, 18 February 2005 07:48 (nineteen years ago) link

The cassettes sound OK actually.

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Friday, 18 February 2005 08:08 (nineteen years ago) link

Oh I wasn't doubting they sounded fine, Tim.

― Bimble... (Bimble...), Friday, 18 February 2005 08:49 (nineteen years ago) link

Are they recorded in Dubley?

― Chewshabadoo (Chewshabadoo), Friday, 18 February 2005 11:27 (nineteen years ago) link

Cologne, I believe

― Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 18 February 2005 11:29 (nineteen years ago) link

I Was There.

― Chewshabadoo (Chewshabadoo), Friday, 18 February 2005 12:33 (nineteen years ago) link

Who are you, Bobby Gillespie?

― Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 18 February 2005 12:34 (nineteen years ago) link

LOL.

― Chewshabadoo (Chewshabadoo), Friday, 18 February 2005 12:38 (nineteen years ago) link

Wait, vinyl remasters? What the hell is this vinyl copy of Tago Mago I bought a year ago before the cds were announced?

― mike h. (mike h.), Friday, 18 February 2005 14:58 (nineteen years ago) link

Wait, vinyl remasters? What the hell is this vinyl copy of Tago Mago I bought a year ago before the cds were announced?

A repressing.

― Vic Funk, Friday, 18 February 2005 16:13 (nineteen years ago) link

Has anyone ever noticed that the melody of the Buzzcock's "Sitting Round At Home" is the same as that of "Bel Air"?

― Ken L (Ken L), Wednesday, 23 February 2005 20:32 (nineteen years ago) link

Given that Shelley was a huge krautrock fan.. not a surprise at all.

― donut debonair (donut), Wednesday, 23 February 2005 20:36 (nineteen years ago) link

Except that it's a Steve Diggle song.

― Ken L (Ken L), Wednesday, 23 February 2005 20:37 (nineteen years ago) link

why don't they record something new instead of remastering and reissuing their albums every six months?

― kyle (akmonday), Wednesday, 23 February 2005 20:39 (nineteen years ago) link

Ha!

― Ken L (Ken L), Wednesday, 23 February 2005 20:44 (nineteen years ago) link

Except that it's a Steve Diggle song.

Well, Diggle was probably a krauthead too!

― donut debonair (donut), Wednesday, 23 February 2005 20:45 (nineteen years ago) link

why don't they record something new instead of remastering and reissuing their albums every six months?

Well, for starters, Can are not a band anymore.

Won't argue against your "six month" hyperbole... except to say that I'm still going to be a sucker and get all the reissues on both formats. I'm to be pitied.

― donut debonair (donut), Wednesday, 23 February 2005 20:46 (nineteen years ago) link

Yup. I don't know why I "ha'd," since I'm going to have to plunk down for some of those myself.

Well, Diggle was probably a krauthead too!
In fact it makes sense that it was one of his, since the more prolific Shelley might have scrupled at the cop. Maybe.

Anyone ever commented on the fact that "can" is the Turkish word for "soul" and maybe Holger has been holding out on the secret meaning of the name all this time?

― Ken L (Ken L), Wednesday, 23 February 2005 21:09 (nineteen years ago) link

two weeks pass...

I got the Soundtracks remaster the other day. Sounds great.

― Ken L (Ken L), Tuesday, 15 March 2005 15:32 (nineteen years ago) link

why don't they record something new instead of remastering and reissuing their albums every six months?

Unfortunately, in case you hadn't noticed, one of them is dead

― My Son Calls Another Man Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 15 March 2005 15:35 (nineteen years ago) link

Oh man, you're right and it's Michael, my favorite. I'm sorry I "ha'd" that gag the first time around.

― Ken L (Ken L), Tuesday, 15 March 2005 15:38 (nineteen years ago) link

Anyone ever commented on the fact that "can" is the Turkish word for "soul" and maybe Holger has been holding out on the secret meaning of the name all this time?

It was commented on by Irmin Schmidt (I think) and, anyway, I thought it was Malcolm Mooney who named the band, and named them as The Can to boot.

― My Son Calls Another Man Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 15 March 2005 15:41 (nineteen years ago) link

Well, while we're on the topic of Malcolm Mooney, I have to say I never really got into Monster Movie- in fact it put me off checking out the other stuff for years. What does everybody else say, or should I just check out the other Can threads?

― Ken L (Ken L), Tuesday, 15 March 2005 15:50 (nineteen years ago) link

Check the other threads where will you probably come across me pontificating at length on how "Monster Movie" is their best album and the only with no duds on it. By the way, Irmin Schmidt used to claim Can stood for Communism Anarchism Nihilism - the wag.

― My Son Calls Another Man Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 15 March 2005 15:54 (nineteen years ago) link

"The Can" as in "The John" as in "The Toilet", originally...

― mark grout (mark grout), Tuesday, 15 March 2005 15:56 (nineteen years ago) link

one month passes...

http://www.cdtimes.co.uk/content.php?contentid=1792

― N_RQ, Wednesday, 11 May 2005 09:14 (nineteen years ago) link

July 11th can't come fast enough.

― buck van morrison (Buck Van Smack), Wednesday, 11 May 2005 13:21 (nineteen years ago) link

Fantastic news!!

― Dr. C (Dr. C), Wednesday, 11 May 2005 13:24 (nineteen years ago) link

one month passes...

why do you forsake me, ilm?

― This Thread, Friday, 17 June 2005 13:49 (nineteen years ago) link

The search function is now working.

― mark grout (mark grout), Friday, 17 June 2005 13:50 (nineteen years ago) link

two years pass...

I went to half.com and their top recommendation to me was a used copy of Tago Mago for $128.09. At first I thought the Can catalog had gone out of print again, but it just looks like they gave up on SACD hybrids. Are the new versions the same, minus the SACD layer?

― drench, Sunday, 17 February 2008 21:05 (sixteen years ago) link

(OK, ignore my other can thread revive.)

budget-priced cd rereleases are coming out soon. still cheaper on amazonmp3. Dunno what differences there are.

http://www.amazon.com/Tago-Mago-Ri-Can/dp/B0011WMHRK
http://www.amazon.com/Tago-Mago/dp/B000T08AX0
etc.

― abanana, Sunday, 17 February 2008 21:37 (sixteen years ago) link

There doesn't seem to be any difference whatsoever--seems like they just decided to drop the price on Tago Mago & Ege Bamyasi, maybe as a limited-time promotion...

― Craig D., Monday, 18 February 2008 02:01 (sixteen years ago) link

(Mute dropped the price, that is, not any particular retailer)

― Craig D., Monday, 18 February 2008 02:01 (sixteen years ago) link

It looks like the new ones aren't hybrid SACD's.

― Telephone thing, Monday, 18 February 2008 03:08 (sixteen years ago) link

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