"Contemporary African-American Literature"

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So it turns out this is a class on hip-hop which I wasn't expecting at all (I assumed 'contemporary' = 20th century, but apparently it means past 20 years).

ANyway the professor through out his Big Theory (you know, overarching direction of the class for the semester etc.) today since it was the first day of class. He talks about how the "big" ppl in jazz (Ellington etc.) weren't the most important figures to black America during that time - Bessie Smith etc. were. Which I'm down with - he's doing a bottom-up populist revision of the way history has been told in the past, etc.

But then he fails at his own reasoning when it comes to hip-hop. The first three weeks we'll be focusing on Gil Scott Heron, who he seems to see as the forerunner of hip-hop, and adds to this the doomsday theory of current h-h, that is money and capitalism came in and changed to to reflect glamor etc. (a la Ellington + P.Diddy) rather than reality (Bessie Smith + whoever...NWA I guess).

So my take on it would be more that GSH really wasn't a part of the populist history of h-h (or h-h as a whole really) and that hip-hop was about partying etc. rather than the political conscience of Gil Scott Heron.

Yeah....so is this just a case of oldster not "getting" the younger generation? Should I confront him on his theory or just subvert the class slowly? Haha I kid.

It'll actually be an interesting class I think.

― djdee2005, Thursday, 2 September 2004 00:15 (twenty years ago)

Tell him that partying is political and that he should get off his ass and jam.

― scott seward (scott seward), Thursday, 2 September 2004 00:20 (twenty years ago)

Scott OTM.

Visions of that "Storytelling" flick are dancing in my head.

― maria b (maria b), Thursday, 2 September 2004 02:10 (twenty years ago)

Where are you taking this class, djdee?

― jaymc (jaymc), Thursday, 2 September 2004 03:37 (twenty years ago)

At my school (I prefer to not be specific).

― djdee2005, Thursday, 2 September 2004 03:42 (twenty years ago)

Oh, fair enough: I just know you're in Chicago, is all.

I think you're probably right, by the way -- for as much as Gil Scott-Heron, the Last Poets, etc., can claim to be forerunners to hip-hop, I'm not sure that they were at the forefront of the minds of rappers making shit up over breakbeats on the street.

― jaymc (jaymc), Thursday, 2 September 2004 03:44 (twenty years ago)

but they weren't too far away (melle mel, duke bootee)

― Begs2Differ (Begs2Differ), Thursday, 2 September 2004 03:47 (twenty years ago)

but yeah, I guess that's how one gets to teach a college class, taking the company line. I subscribed to that line for a little while, but it wasn't doing me any good.

― Begs2Differ (Begs2Differ), Thursday, 2 September 2004 03:48 (twenty years ago)

I'm actually not at school in Chicago, that's just my hometown.

I'm just waiting for the debates to get started...I feel like I'll be alone defending teh bling blingerz.

― djdee2005, Thursday, 2 September 2004 03:51 (twenty years ago)

three weeks pass...

OMFG tonight was the worst class ever.
First I got yelled shouted down when I suggested that neo-soul was boring and that there was nothing any more "intelligent" about Jill Scott than say Aaliyah, then the teacher told me that Aaliyah didn't writer her own music and was too commercial.
I brought up Missy and was told that sometimes she veered too close to minstrelsy.

I'm in this bizarro-world where bourgeoise marxists tell me the evils of corporate music.

Help.

― djdee2005 (djdee2005), Thursday, 23 September 2004 01:18 (twenty years ago)

Gack, I lived the rock version of this for a term two years ago.

― sundar subramanian (sundar), Thursday, 23 September 2004 01:24 (twenty years ago)

then we watched a video on slam poets, bcuz this is a class about contemporary black literature. The audiences at the slam poet competitions were almost entirely white. I'm learning a lot about (academic interpretations of) black culture already!

― djdee2005 (djdee2005), Thursday, 23 September 2004 01:37 (twenty years ago)

Tell him GSH has a lot more to do with the Beat Generation's influence on his stuff than with him influencing Hip Hop.

― shookout (shookout), Thursday, 23 September 2004 01:54 (twenty years ago)

he'd probably agree and say that GSH was merely a halfway pt. between the two, the point at which "conscious" poetry became inflected with more radical black political beliefs.

― djdee2005 (djdee2005), Thursday, 23 September 2004 01:57 (twenty years ago)

George Elliot Clarke -- excellent winner of Canada Governor General Award for Poetry, who wrote verse exploring black history in the Maritimes. Oh yeah, but he's not African-American, per se. He's African-North-America -- what a stupid word... He's good. Check him out.

― The TAO that can be Posted is not the TAO! (The Tao that can be Posted is), Thursday, 23 September 2004 02:26 (twenty years ago)

I can't wait till I have to argue that Cash Money made more interesting music than the Roots.

― djdee2005 (djdee2005), Thursday, 23 September 2004 02:35 (twenty years ago)

You should start wearing the ghostface eagle bracelet to class and raising that hand to ask all questions.

― Forksclovetofu (Forksclovetofu), Thursday, 23 September 2004 03:28 (twenty years ago)

I brought up Missy and was told that sometimes she veered too close to minstrelsy.

Oh my. What was their evidence, if any?

― Symplistic (shmuel), Thursday, 23 September 2004 04:02 (twenty years ago)

None. He also said that he thought she was rather asexual, unlike, say bessie smith or aretha or whatever, while jill scott fit into that mold.

Kill me.

― djdee2005 (djdee2005), Thursday, 23 September 2004 04:16 (twenty years ago)

o i look forward to future installments of this djdee.

― gaz (gaz), Thursday, 23 September 2004 04:25 (twenty years ago)

Its a once-a-week class...look forward to next Wednesday!

― djdee2005 (djdee2005), Thursday, 23 September 2004 04:49 (twenty years ago)

Re Missy-is-asexual: does your prof know what a cha-cha is?!?

― jaymc (jaymc), Thursday, 23 September 2004 05:13 (twenty years ago)

he's quite gay....

― djdee2005 (djdee2005), Thursday, 23 September 2004 05:17 (twenty years ago)

Which actually makes it more baffling, if you ask me...

― jaymc (jaymc), Thursday, 23 September 2004 05:18 (twenty years ago)

djdee are you an undergrad or a grad student?

god in applying to grad school i'm about to wade into oceans of this sort of bullshit. deep breath...

― amateur!!!st (amateurist), Thursday, 23 September 2004 05:57 (twenty years ago)

Re Missy-is-asexual: does your prof know what a cha-cha is?!?
-- jaymc (jmcunnin...), September 23rd, 2004.

he's quite gay....
-- djdee2005

Well, all right, then: Does he know what a hoo-hoo-dilly is?

(I gotta say, this thread is most entertaining!)

― Myonga Von Bontee (Myonga Von Bontee), Thursday, 23 September 2004 07:37 (twenty years ago)

I almost took a class on black pop culture, but opted out -- think I missed anything?

― David Allen (David Allen), Thursday, 23 September 2004 08:10 (twenty years ago)

Undergrad.

― djdee2005 (djdee2005), Thursday, 23 September 2004 15:29 (twenty years ago)

today class we will compare and contrast two political statements in terms of their impact on American culture: the Roots' entire catalogue and "Where Is The Love"

― Dave M. (rotten03), Thursday, 23 September 2004 15:33 (twenty years ago)

or, I WILL COMPARE AND CONTRAST JESUS AND SPIDER-MAN

― Dave M. (rotten03), Thursday, 23 September 2004 15:34 (twenty years ago)

it's not the focus on pop culture that's to be lamented but professors' cluelessness about how it works and why

― amateur!!st, Thursday, 23 September 2004 16:17 (twenty years ago)

I can't wait till I have to argue that Cash Money made more interesting music than the Roots.

You're going to need to learn how to pick your battles. Save your energy for defences of 50 Cent and Jay-Z.

― Symplistic (shmuel), Thursday, 23 September 2004 17:35 (twenty years ago)

I can't wait till I have to argue that Cash Money made more interesting music than the Roots.

I'd like to see you make that argument because it isn't true! (If you'd said The Neptunes or Timbaland I would agree.)

― Dan Perry '08 (Dan Perry), Thursday, 23 September 2004 17:37 (twenty years ago)

haha let's remake the academy in ilx's image

― amateur!!st, Thursday, 23 September 2004 17:38 (twenty years ago)

not

― amateur!!st, Thursday, 23 September 2004 17:38 (twenty years ago)

Kish Kash: The Pinnacle of Human Achievement?

― Symplistic (shmuel), Thursday, 23 September 2004 17:39 (twenty years ago)

I think it's true. Way true.

― scott seward (scott seward), Thursday, 23 September 2004 17:40 (twenty years ago)

The cash money more interesting than the roots thing.

― scott seward (scott seward), Thursday, 23 September 2004 17:41 (twenty years ago)

they're both interesting! ferchrissakes

― amateur!!st, Thursday, 23 September 2004 17:42 (twenty years ago)

Unquestionably.

Incidently, I DO like the Roots.

― djdee2005 (djdee2005), Thursday, 23 September 2004 17:42 (twenty years ago)

"I'm in this bizarro-world where bourgeoise marxists tell me the evils of corporate music"/ "I'm learning a lot about (academic interpretations of) black culture already!"

This teacher's world seems a lot more interesting than his theories. Please let us know more about the comical adventures of these academic Don Quixotes.

― Marco Damiani (Marco D.), Friday, 24 September 2004 08:46 (twenty years ago)

haha keep us up to date on how you get on with class discussions...
i'm just starting an english and cultural studies degree,i have a feeling i might run into similar arguements
not specifically to do with hip hop,(although that is one of the areas in which this is most true)but it seems like some people in theory think that pop culture must be worth studying because its so important to so many people and set about trying to find a way to prove this theory within their own frame of reference rather than seeing that pop culture has merits and then deciding to study it for that reason...

― robin (robin), Sunday, 26 September 2004 01:57 (twenty years ago)

Having ridiculous half-arsed theories with no internal logical consistency is one thing, but then refusing to discuss alternative views is just plain shitty teaching.

robin is quite right, too many teachers of pop culture approach it purely from a pseudo-Marxist "if the people like something, it must be good" approach and then fuck that up by applying their own ridiculously dated ideas about the differences between meaningful and non-meaningful discourse. I blame the 60s.

― noodle vague (noodle vague), Sunday, 26 September 2004 08:44 (twenty years ago)

Updates!

Last week we talked about slam poetry. We watched that documentary on it (I think its called "Slam!") and we observed that (his ideas, not mine) the white guy was the one who wanted to make slam poetry more entertaining, and the group of mostly black slam poets (Saul Williams' group) was more self-consciously artistic. I got the feeling we were supposed to infer that hip-hop becomes "less black" and less authentic when commercialized (apparently "Commercialized" = "entertaining"). I didn't like it because he essentially set up this idea of altruistic art as being counter to entertainment. Why are they supposedly contradictory? No idea.

This week we discussed hip-hop lyrics. We read the book of lyrics that was released this year. We were assigned the "gangsta" section. One of the girls read the first verse of "Whoa" by Black Rob, and the class came in for the "whoa" parts.

I am not even fucking kidding.

― djdee2005 (djdee2005), Thursday, 7 October 2004 04:29 (twenty years ago)

You know, Beatles lyrics in my eighth grade English book were weird enough.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 7 October 2004 04:36 (twenty years ago)

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