Do piano players in salsa bands ever get bored playing everything in octaves?

Message Bookmarked
Bookmark Removed
Do you suppose that the pianists in salsa bands and other Latin orchestras ever get tired of playing everything in octaves the whole time? (I mean not just the 'montuno' but even entire solos!)

j.w., Monday, 13 September 2004 05:38 (twenty-one years ago)

surely they must!

..i have the same thought about latin jazz bassists. all root-fifth-root-fifth-fifth-fifth-root

Grell (Grell), Monday, 13 September 2004 06:08 (twenty-one years ago)

is it really THAT prevalent in the solos?

and with bass players, i have seen guys on stage looking like they'd rather be somewhere else. a couple weeks ago i saw Tito Puente's
Orquestra (now called Frankie Morales Orq. i believe) and the bass player was standing SO still the entire show. there was tons of people dancing, and he wasn't even tapping his foot.

pheNAM (pheNAM), Monday, 13 September 2004 14:21 (twenty-one years ago)

One might also ask the question whether my neighbors ever get tired of salsa music. The answer, as far as I can tell, is no.

sexyDancer, Monday, 13 September 2004 14:26 (twenty-one years ago)

If you asked a salsa pianist to touch his thumb and pinky together, would he/she be able to do it?

southern lights (southern lights), Monday, 13 September 2004 15:49 (twenty-one years ago)

This may be the first salsa related thread I'm not qualified to post to.

Rockist_Scientist (rockist_scientist), Monday, 13 September 2004 17:09 (twenty-one years ago)

Octave solos are invigorating. I think that just about anyone can get sick of repetitive music, but at least salsa players get to listen to salsa when they're bored. Try playing keyboard in a jam band sometime.

nameom (nameom), Tuesday, 14 September 2004 01:50 (twenty-one years ago)

root-fifth sucks!

Grell (Grell), Tuesday, 14 September 2004 04:53 (twenty-one years ago)

They have to play in octaves, otherwise you couldn't hear them!

Dominique (dleone), Tuesday, 14 September 2004 12:33 (twenty-one years ago)

root-fifth sucks!

The tumbao rhythms make up for it.

Jordan (Jordan), Tuesday, 14 September 2004 12:51 (twenty-one years ago)

four weeks pass...
From Peter Manuel's essay "Improvisation in Latin Dance Music: History and Style" (from the interesting, if largely incomprehensible to me, multi-auhor collection In the Course of Performance, which also includes an A.J. Racy essay on improvisation in the Arabic context):

Latin piano style constitutes one of the most original and distinctive features of Latin music. . . . Essentially the solo style comprises a set of standardized patterns or techniques having contrasting textures, which, in a given solo, are introduced in the form of relatively short, discrete phrases. In several of these typical patterns, rhythm and texture are of greater importance than melody and harmony. . . .
The affinities with jazz are apparent mostly in the realm of chord voicings, which often use ninths, thirteenths, and, in less [i]tipico[/i] contexts, piled fourths such as were popularize by McCoy Tyner. However, the differences from jazz are perhaps more striking. Since the emergence of bebop in the early 1940s, mainstream jazz piano style has consisted overwhelmingly of single right-hand runs, punctuated by occasional left-hand chords (comping). That is, essentially a one-handed style (such as prompted Art Tatum to state of bebop pianist Bud Powell, "He ain't got no left"). This texture does occur in Latin piano, but as merely one of several more common textures. In general, Latin piano stresses volume, power, textural contrast, and rhythm more than intricacy of melodic line. As Sonny Bravo states, half in jest, "We're not dealing with subtle music here; we're dealing with savages from the jungle." It may also be noted that such textural variation works much more naturally with harmonically static or repetitive montunos than it would with extended harmonic progressions used in jazz standards. . . .

I get the gist of this, but I couldn't identify a ninth vs. a thirteenth or anything elsa even that modestly technical.

(For those of you interested in improvisation, this book should be worth checking out, especially if you do understand music theory and don't mind an academic approach to music.)

Rockist Scientist, Tuesday, 12 October 2004 17:04 (twenty-one years ago)

Also, I assume someone will disagree with the generalizations about post-bebop mainstream jazz piano, but I don't know enough to join you in any arguments about that. (I am well aware that non-mainstream jazz piano does all kinds of shit.)

Rockist Scientist, Tuesday, 12 October 2004 17:08 (twenty-one years ago)

ILM GUILT: I thought about this thread the other day when I heard a mambo band and the keyboard player switched from right hand octaves into straight chords for the verses. (nb: he also switched from "piano" to some romantic synth setting but still...)

gygax! (gygax!), Tuesday, 12 October 2004 19:07 (twenty-one years ago)

BTW, legend has it that after Bud Powell heard what Tatum had said, he played an entire set with his left hand.

Hurting (Hurting), Wednesday, 13 October 2004 01:34 (twenty-one years ago)

Oh boy, "IN GENERAL, Latin Piano" indeed. Was just listening to Charlie Haden's album of Cuban toons, NOCTURNE. G. Rubacaba, who also orchestrates, is melodic as hell, and, although I didn't notice his left so much, specifically, could be because he's got Charlie's bass there. I think I'm more tired of jazz guitarists trying to Wes me to death with the octaves.(Although there are plenty who don't, but you knever know when the younger ones are gonna fall back into that, beat down by shoebox Jazz Moguls.)(Watch out for Salsa Moguls too!)

Don, Wednesday, 13 October 2004 05:29 (twenty-one years ago)

This is fascinating.

What about rhythm guitarists in reggae bands? Do they get bored?

the music mole (colin s barrow), Wednesday, 13 October 2004 05:45 (twenty-one years ago)

Well, Ernest Ranglin played rhythm, and lead (reggae lead, although not the kind Chris Blackwell had dubbed onto Wailers before he put 'm out on Island). He dosn't sound bored. But we should ask some musicians about this stuff; anybody out there who plays salsa, reggae?

Don, Wednesday, 13 October 2004 15:03 (twenty-one years ago)

Do drummers/bassists/keyboard players in hip-hop bands get bored? I think that's the challenge in these sorts of music. Your part is repetitive, you just gotta take pleasure in nailing down that groove and making the music work as a whole rather than entertaining yourself.

Jordan (Jordan), Wednesday, 13 October 2004 15:18 (twenty-one years ago)


You must be logged in to post. Please either login here, or if you are not registered, you may register here.