Who rules the '80s? Phil Collins or Prince?

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A spin-off from the Phil Collins thread. I'm not talking about quality, since I love Prince and only appreciate Phil Collins. Just whose ubiquitous presence made more of an impact on the decade? Some things to consider:

Phil Collins - solo success, Genesis success, Live Aid, Band Aid, played with Robert Plant, Eric Clapton, Frida, Philip Bailey, Howard Jones, Peter Gabriel, acted on Miami Vice, responsible for pushing drums to the front of the mix, etc.

Prince - solo success, worked with Sheila E., the Time, Bangles, covered by the Art of Noise, drum machine innovator, booed off Stones tour, etc.

Let's discuss, starting ... now!

― Josh in Chicago (Josh in Chicago), Tuesday, 14 September 2004 21:55 (twenty-one years ago)

Prince.

― Nowell, Tuesday, 14 September 2004 22:06 (twenty-one years ago)

Prince!

― Nowell, Tuesday, 14 September 2004 22:06 (twenty-one years ago)

LOL.... this thread's a joke, right?

― maria b (maria b), Tuesday, 14 September 2004 22:10 (twenty-one years ago)

Everybody has their own opinion.
This is pretty dumb.

― Nowell, Tuesday, 14 September 2004 22:11 (twenty-one years ago)

I expected the barrage of "Prince! Prince!" Well, obviously Prince is "better*. This isn't a taking sides: Phil Collins versus Prince. I was thinking of who was more ubiquitous, who better defined the decade. One could argue (easily) that it's a bad thing, but I think Phil Collins better epitomized the '80s. Prince would be an anomaly in nearly any decade.

― Josh in Chicago (Josh in Chicago), Tuesday, 14 September 2004 22:20 (twenty-one years ago)

You know what?

You're right.

― Nowell, Tuesday, 14 September 2004 22:21 (twenty-one years ago)

(Major x-post)

"Everybody has their own opinion."
Isn't that the point of this board, Nowell?

I think Prince is the better musician, for sure, but I think Collins best personifies that decade -- or at least the popularly agreed upon view of that decade (the excess, the cheesy Nagel prints, the coke, the pastel sportcoats, and so on). So in that sense, I suppose Collins rules the 80s. Plus I was haunted as a young man in the '80s by the urban legend of the story behind "Int he Air Tonight" -- Collins sees the guy who raped his girfriend drowning and doesn't go to save him...
Then again, I was also haunted and confused by Prince's description of someone in a hotel lobby "masturbating with a magazine," so shit.

― Taxi Dancing in the Soft Prison (Ben Boyer), Tuesday, 14 September 2004 22:23 (twenty-one years ago)

The 80s is the decade of the anomaly.

― oops (Oops), Tuesday, 14 September 2004 22:23 (twenty-one years ago)

oops OTM. The question, then, is who is the bigger anomaly? The short, chubby, balding drummer of a '70s prog rock band who becomes a massively popular singer/collaborator, or the shockingly young black one-man-band who becomes a crossover sensation? Both actually seem equally unlikely, at least to me.

Hmm, come to think of it, I wonder which had more top 40 hits, including all their solo/band works, guest appearances, and collaborations, and I wonder if either tops Hall and Oates in terms of chart success? To the books! (Unless someone with more energy beats me to it.)

― Josh in Chicago (Josh in Chicago), Tuesday, 14 September 2004 22:56 (twenty-one years ago)

Phil Collins is more of an anomaly within the 80s ("normal" bloke amongst all the boy georges and adam ants) , but Prince is the bigger anomaly looking at music as a whole. Plus, he had the extravagant 80s flashy fashion thing down pat.

― oops (Oops), Tuesday, 14 September 2004 23:00 (twenty-one years ago)

Regardless of tastes, Phil Collins didn't really become ubiquitous until probably 1985, whereas 1984 was the year of Prince. Unless '84 was the year of Springsteen instead.

The answer is...Michael Jackson!

― Myonga Von Bontee (Myonga Von Bontee), Tuesday, 14 September 2004 23:31 (twenty-one years ago)

Idealized answer: Prince

Realistic answer: Phil Collins.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Tuesday, 14 September 2004 23:52 (twenty-one years ago)

'84 or '85 was right around the time I seriously found myself paying attention to music and pop culture. Phil Collins was fucking everywhere! I was aware of Prince at the time, but Collins was inescapable.

― Johnny Fever (johnny fever), Tuesday, 14 September 2004 23:59 (twenty-one years ago)

Heh heh. Prince, you dumb shit.

― helltimothy, Wednesday, 15 September 2004 00:13 (twenty-one years ago)

You're all kidding, right?

1981: _Controversy_, "Let's Work", "Do Me, Baby"
1982: _1999_, "Little Red Corvette", "Delerious", "1999", "Let's Pretend We're Married"
1984: _Purple Rain_, "When Doves Cry", "Let's Go Crazy", "I Would Die 4 U", "Take Me With U", "Purple Rain"
1985: "Raspberry Beret", _Around The World In A Day_, "Pop Life", "Paisley Park", "America"
1986: "Kiss", _Parade_, "Mountains", "Anotherloverholeinyohead", "Under The Cherry Moon", "Girls And Boys"
1987: _Sign O' The Times_, "Sign O' The Times", "U Got The Look", "I Could Never Take The Place Of Your Man", "If I Was Your Girlfriend"
1988: _Lovesexy_, "Alphabet Street", "I Wish U Heaven", "Glam Slam"
1989: _Batman_, "Batdance", "Partyman", "The Arms Of Orion", "The Future", "Scandalous"

How young/white are you people????

― Dan Perry '08 (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 15 September 2004 00:23 (twenty-one years ago)

BUT DAN THINK OF WHAT GENESIS HAS TO OFFER US

― Curt1s St3ph3ns, Wednesday, 15 September 2004 00:23 (twenty-one years ago)

"Domino"!

― manthony m1cc1o (Anthony Miccio), Wednesday, 15 September 2004 00:24 (twenty-one years ago)

I just realized that I've seen a Phil Collins tribute album made entirely by black artists and a Prince tribute album made entirely by white folks!

― manthony m1cc1o (Anthony Miccio), Wednesday, 15 September 2004 00:25 (twenty-one years ago)

But! Dan, Phil played on BOTH Live Aid stages! He got in a plane and crossed the Atlantic! In one day! To feed the World!

― Kim (Kim), Wednesday, 15 September 2004 00:28 (twenty-one years ago)

Dan, nobody's arguing about quality or quantity. It's not about who was the *best* -- for instance, the Velvets might have been arguably the best band for a few years, but you would never say that "the Velvet Underground ruled the 60's".

Like with Springsteen, I'd say that the casual fan (whatever that means -- admittedly a loose definition) knows mainly "Born in the USA" and forgets about "The River", "Nebraska", and "Tunnel of Love". The same fan thinks about "Purple Rain" over all other Prince albums. And the same fan perceives Phil Collins as having a longer and more storied career -- from "In the Air Tonight" to the hit Genesis albums to "Another Day in Paradise" (yuck).

― Barry Bruner (Barry Bruner), Wednesday, 15 September 2004 01:19 (twenty-one years ago)

But Seriously...my favorite Phil Collins overview ever

― manthony m1cc1o (Anthony Miccio), Wednesday, 15 September 2004 01:26 (twenty-one years ago)

aaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhahhaha

― Dave M. (rotten03), Wednesday, 15 September 2004 01:40 (twenty-one years ago)

Seanbaby hurts me in my chest with the funny

― Dave M. (rotten03), Wednesday, 15 September 2004 01:41 (twenty-one years ago)

This album had the popular and retarded song, "Sussudio," which is what a normal word sounds like when you try to say it through a mouthful of dick.

Can't argue there.

We should start a Celine Dion or Michael Bolton thread and fill it with posts just like this one.

― Barry Bruner (Barry Bruner), Wednesday, 15 September 2004 01:41 (twenty-one years ago)

Honestly though - the existence of this more recent Phil cover is a retro-active deal breaker all on it's own.

http://www.seanbaby.com/news/images/robots11.jpg

― Kim (Kim), Wednesday, 15 September 2004 01:43 (twenty-one years ago)

also Dan, yes i am young, white and middle class. i used to listen to Casey Kasem religiously in the latter half of the decade, and didn't own a single album by either Prince or Phil Collins.

...and loath as i am to admit it, i know every Phil Collins single from 1980-1993 by heart, and the only Prince songs i knew up until fairly recently were "When Doves Cry", "Kiss" (the Tom Jones versh though) and scattered fragments of the Batman soundtrack, which doesn't really count. I'd like to turn back time, but as it stands, Phil Collins rules the 80s.

― Dave M. (rotten03), Wednesday, 15 September 2004 01:46 (twenty-one years ago)

Prince and Reagan could not rule the '80s at the same time. Phil and Reagan could.

― manthony m1cc1o (Anthony Miccio), Wednesday, 15 September 2004 01:47 (twenty-one years ago)

The Cobain secret revealed: the transformation had begun.

http://www.hawkwindmuseum.co.uk/phil_collins.jpg http://www.u-blog.net/mayo/img/nirvana.jpg

http://rhein-zeitung.de/old/96/03/29/topnews/collins.jpg http://muzyka.onet.pl/_i/info/duze/k/kurt_cobain.jpg

― Kim (Kim), Wednesday, 15 September 2004 02:13 (twenty-one years ago)

I don't think being white has much to do with appreciating Prince. It's not like we're talking about Maze featuring Frankie Beverly here.

― supercub, Wednesday, 15 September 2004 02:21 (twenty-one years ago)

Collins + Cobain = this man owns twenty years of my life

― Dave M. (rotten03), Wednesday, 15 September 2004 02:22 (twenty-one years ago)

I will freely admit that growing up in Minnesota gives you a completely different opinion of Prince's impact on the 80s (they played "Another Lonely Christmas", "4 The Tears In Your Eyes", "Erotic City", "Controversy", "Adore" and "Lady Cab Driver" on the radio there.

― Dan Perry '08 (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 15 September 2004 02:29 (twenty-one years ago)

Prince = made Sheena Easton sexxxy ("Sugar Walls")

Phil Collins = made Marilyn Martin Oscar-worthy ("Separate Lives")

Must this even be put to a vote?

― Joseph McCombs (Joseph McCombs), Wednesday, 15 September 2004 02:41 (twenty-one years ago)

"Prince and Reagan could not rule the '80s at the same time."

Ronnie Talk to Russia to thread.

― Forksclovetofu (Forksclovetofu), Wednesday, 15 September 2004 04:33 (twenty-one years ago)

the real answer: Michael Jackson

― Mr. Snrub (Mr. Snrub), Wednesday, 15 September 2004 04:40 (twenty-one years ago)

I will freely admit that growing up in Minnesota gives you a completely different opinion of Prince's impact on the 80s (they played ... "Erotic City" ... on the radio there.

I'm still shaking my head over the fact that, for whatever reason, "Erotic City" was a huge, massive hit on KDWB (local über-pop station) during the summer of 1999. Like, as in it was played nearly as much as Busta Rhymes' "What's It Gonna Be?!"

― Eric H. (Eric H.), Wednesday, 15 September 2004 04:44 (twenty-one years ago)

The real options to the question "who ruled the '80s?" - Trevor Horn or Steve Albini?

― Donnie Smith The Quiz Kid, Wednesday, 15 September 2004 07:23 (twenty-one years ago)

Phil Collins is, to me, the embodiment of the 80s. I fucking hated the 80s.

― Salmon Pink (Salmon Pink), Wednesday, 15 September 2004 11:05 (twenty-one years ago)

Vince Clarke

― the neurotic awakening of s (blueski), Wednesday, 15 September 2004 11:15 (twenty-one years ago)

Jive Bunny

― Donnie Smith The Quiz Kid, Wednesday, 15 September 2004 11:16 (twenty-one years ago)

Goombay Dance Band

― the neurotic awakening of s (blueski), Wednesday, 15 September 2004 11:30 (twenty-one years ago)

Madonna. Durr.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Wednesday, 15 September 2004 11:37 (twenty-one years ago)

i was gonna say but she wasn't active right through the decade so Prince and Jacko had the headstart and were already huge when she came out.

― the neurotic awakening of s (blueski), Wednesday, 15 September 2004 11:40 (twenty-one years ago)

But they were rather less than huge by the end of the decade so that balances out.

Anyway, no Look Of Love = no Holiday = no Madonna, so the correct answer is still Trevor Horn.

― Donnie Smith The Quiz Kid, Wednesday, 15 September 2004 12:15 (twenty-one years ago)

I have never been happier to have grown up in Minnesota than I am right now. You poor poor people, having to identify the decade with Phil Collins.

― Dan Perry '08 (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 15 September 2004 12:27 (twenty-one years ago)

that's right, act like you weren't throwing it down to 'Easy Lover' back in the day

― the neurotic awakening of s (blueski), Wednesday, 15 September 2004 12:54 (twenty-one years ago)

Bailey pwns that tune tho no doubt

― the neurotic awakening of s (blueski), Wednesday, 15 September 2004 12:55 (twenty-one years ago)

"Easy Lover" by Derek Bailey and Phil Collins - now there would have been a classic number one.

― Donnie Smith The Quiz Kid, Wednesday, 15 September 2004 12:56 (twenty-one years ago)

UZI LOVER

― the neurotic awakening of fur q (blueski), Wednesday, 15 September 2004 13:41 (twenty-one years ago)

that's right, act like you weren't throwing it down to 'Easy Lover' back in the day

Throwing up, perhaps.

Strawberry Switchblade owned the decade, clearly.

― hobart paving (hobart paving), Wednesday, 15 September 2004 13:49 (twenty-one years ago)

Jellybean

― the neurotic awakening of s (blueski), Wednesday, 15 September 2004 13:52 (twenty-one years ago)

DEREK B IS A BAD YOUNG BROTHER!

― Donnie Smith The Quiz Kid, Wednesday, 15 September 2004 14:23 (twenty-one years ago)

what, did he smack you with a G.I. Joe?

― Dave M. (rotten03), Wednesday, 15 September 2004 14:24 (twenty-one years ago)

No he smacked me with Joe Dolce's Music Theatre.

― Donnie Smith The Quiz Kid, Wednesday, 15 September 2004 14:27 (twenty-one years ago)

Duke, 1980: "Turn it On Again"
Face Value, 1981: "In the Air Tonight", "The Roof is Leaking", "I Missed Again"
Abacab, 1981: "Abacab", "No Reply at All", "Man on the Corner"
Hello, I Must Be Going, 1982: "I Don't Care Anymore", "Do You Know, Do You Care?"
Genesis, 1983: "Illegal Alien", "Mama", "That's All", "Taking it All Too Hard"
No Jacket Required, 1985: "Sussudio", "Take Me Home", "Don't Lose My Number", "One More Night"
Invisible Touch, 1986: "Invisible Touch", "Throwing it All Away", "Tonight, Tonight, Tonight", "Land of Confusion", "In too Deep"
...But Seriously, 1989: "Another Day in Paradise", "I Wish it Would Rain Down"

Add the collabs, Buster and "Against all Odds"? Hands down, Phil Collins over Prince.

― Chris Ott (Chris Ott), Wednesday, 15 September 2004 14:36 (twenty-one years ago)

i think you'd better keep your hands up actually

― the neurotic awakening of s (blueski), Wednesday, 15 September 2004 14:37 (twenty-one years ago)

Patrick Bateman took an Uzi to the gym once.

― B.A.R.M.S. (Barima), Wednesday, 15 September 2004 14:43 (twenty-one years ago)

I can't even keep a straight face on this one.

― Chris Ott (Chris Ott), Wednesday, 15 September 2004 15:15 (twenty-one years ago)

this thread is terrifying.

― Dave M. (rotten03), Wednesday, 15 September 2004 15:57 (twenty-one years ago)

prince: 28 singles in the u.s. top 100, including 14 in the top 10 and 4 number ones.

phil: 15 singles in the u.s. top 100, including 11 in the top 10 and 7 number ones.

genesis: 15 singles in the u.s. top 100, including 6 in the top 10 and 1 number one.

add that all up, and the american pop charts say: phil. the percentage of phil's solo singles that hit the top of the charts is phenomenal. the boy had a barry bonds-like OPS.

(however, if you count sheena easton, the bangles, sheila e., chaka khan, etc., as prince chart successes, the pendulum starts swinging back toward purple.)

― fact checking cuz (fcc), Wednesday, 15 September 2004 16:34 (twenty-one years ago)

the competition:

michael: 21 top-100 singles, 17 top-10, 9 number one (counting solo stuff only).

madonna: 20 top-100, 17 top-10, 7 number one.

― fact checking cuz (fcc), Wednesday, 15 September 2004 16:41 (twenty-one years ago)

pah, you can use facts to prove anything

― the neurotic awakening of s (blueski), Wednesday, 15 September 2004 16:43 (twenty-one years ago)

my name gives me no other choice.

― fact checking cuz (fcc), Wednesday, 15 September 2004 16:47 (twenty-one years ago)

I would never have guessed that Prince had more top 100 singles in the 80's than Michael OR Madonna. But the latter two had more big hit (more top tens, and a lot more number ones), so that probably explains my surprise. (also, Prince released more albums)

― Barry Bruner (Barry Bruner), Wednesday, 15 September 2004 17:50 (twenty-one years ago)

pah, you can use facts to prove anything
Too True. I read an article somewhere that PROVED BY SCIENCE that the Police were a better band than the Beatles.
(Gimme a sec. I'll see if theres a copy on the 'net.)

― Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Wednesday, 15 September 2004 18:00 (twenty-one years ago)

but, um, this thread was specifically NOT asking who's better than who. it's asking who was more ubiquitous and successful. facts can be helpful in matters like this! (and certainly, you could probably find another set of facts and statistics that make an entirely different case. but that doesn't negate these facts and stats. it just gives you more to consider.)

― fact checking cuz (fcc), Wednesday, 15 September 2004 18:03 (twenty-one years ago)

Yeah, I know, but the comparisons you made above (of the number of top 100/top 10/numbah ones between prince, phil, michael and madonna) reminded me of that absurd ass Police/Beatles article, and I wanted to blurt that out before I forgot it.

― Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Wednesday, 15 September 2004 18:06 (twenty-one years ago)

(I would've opened a new thread, but I've used up my two for the day.)

― Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Wednesday, 15 September 2004 18:07 (twenty-one years ago)

The correct answer is: both.
It's like asking who rules the 90's? Celine Dion or Nirvana?

― Seb (Seb), Wednesday, 15 September 2004 21:18 (twenty-one years ago)

I did not take this thread seriously at its start, but I thought about it, decided to give it a chance.

Thanks to the postings from Dan Perry and Chris Ott I had a chance to review the titles. While i remember all the Prince songs - names, harmonies, melodies and moments of youth. Collins' songs, well, I can hum Sussudio but everything else is honestly a blank tho I know I know 'em.

Everywhere I grew up from suburban VA to suburbs of Philly, Prince was godlike. Through the 80s and 90s ppl I knew were listening to Prince while Phil Collins was huge for - what a year and a half? - and then gone. (and in my experience most ppl listening to Phil Collins in the 80s had no idea about his Genesis stuff )

Prince still looms large over the 80s and music generally, (tho he depresses and embarrasses me these days) but honestly - can you say the same for Phil Collins?

Prince by a mile for me.

― H (Heruy), Wednesday, 15 September 2004 21:40 (twenty-one years ago)

Facts are simple and facts are straight
Facts are lazy and facts are late
Facts all come with points of view
Facts don't do what I want them to

― Dave M. (rotten03), Wednesday, 15 September 2004 23:09 (twenty-one years ago)

(i still think it's Phil Collins by any measurable standard - note that i said measurable - but to argue for Phil Collins over Prince in any contest just pains me too much, so i'm not going to do it any more)

― Dave M. (rotten03), Wednesday, 15 September 2004 23:12 (twenty-one years ago)

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