dave douglas

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Here are the other two Dave Douglas threads:

New Dave Douglas!
Dave Douglas back with "The Infinite" line up

I just want to know if there's anything as great as the first couple of tracks on "Constellations," where he's playing with er those two other guys, as Tiny Bell Trio. Any other jazz sound like this? 1) it's hilarious 2) trumpet 3) drums 4) electric guitar 5) it's actually kind of sad and awkward, too. I like how the songs are emphatic and goofy, like they're drunkenly lurching around the room trying to sing some song they barely remember. But then they remember it and man! Sometimes they even lay down into some dusky burnt vamp, before scurrying off into an clatter. Much as I think of myself, naturally. Maybe all jazz records are loved or loathed according to how much about yourself it reminds you of.

You've Got to Pick Up Every Stitch (tracerhand), Thursday, 16 September 2004 02:00 (twenty-one years ago)

I dunno, but you sold *me*.

Rickey Wright (Rrrickey), Thursday, 16 September 2004 02:17 (twenty-one years ago)

yay!!

You've Got to Pick Up Every Stitch (tracerhand), Thursday, 16 September 2004 10:58 (twenty-one years ago)

I dunno, one of the nice things about his work is that he keeps trying to do different things, so, no, his other albums don't really sound much like that stuff. That said, hard to go wrong with his biggish-band recording In Our Lifetime, or anything from his string group (esp. Convergence). Some of the Masada stuff he plays on is pretty nutty/sad. Also, he did a duo record with Han Bennik that's kinda all over the place, but spends some time in the region you describe.

That description also makes me think of Joey Baron's Tongue in Groove, one of the more fun jazz albums ever made.

Formerly Lee G (Formerly Lee G), Thursday, 16 September 2004 13:03 (twenty-one years ago)

Tracer, I don't know Dave Douglas' work, but I think the big secret here is that the jazz of the last ten or so years, while I'm not saying it's better than what came before, nevertheless is going in some new different directions that I find a lot more palatable.

Suddenly, almost the only new releases I'm looking forward to buying are jazz CDs.

Rockist_Scientist (rockist_scientist), Thursday, 16 September 2004 13:23 (twenty-one years ago)

That's really interesting. I know everybody talks about how the 80s were like this awful black hole period in jazz, and I guess that makes sense because I can't think of any from that time even to name. I think a big part of what I like about Douglas is how is actually sounds like something, they're songs. They stick in my head. I'm not sure I'd like the big band stuff though, it's the spareness that gets me with Tiny Bell Trio (even though it doesn't sound spare hmm) - I mean that there's so much room around all the sounds, which jab and swallow and cough, I can hear each thing they're doing, pricking through the air. I don't know what the hell is going on half the time with most jazz, but with this I feel like I can keep up, even though I have literally no idea what they're about to do next. I'm sure there's somebody here who knows about the evolution of this stuff (Jordan?), but I'm just surprised that something can be so followable yet so formally out there at the same time.

You've Got to Pick Up Every Stitch (tracerhand), Thursday, 16 September 2004 18:33 (twenty-one years ago)

'Sup.

I agree that the Tiny Bell Trio is one of the best things he's done. As good as his current quintet (The Infinite, Strange Liberation) is in some ways, they've really lost that directness and humour. The tunes are unmistakably jazz tunes that wouldn't really be played by anyone else, and when I saw them live everything sounded very monotone, despite them all being great players.

The smallness of the group (not just the number of players but the instruments and the sounds) is the key I think. Not much needs to be prepared ahead of time, they can turn on a time, and it's not a format where tunes with really complex chord structures are really going to work anyway.

Other stuff: if you haven't listened to Masada, please do. They play jazz like rock music, it's all about the melody and hitting the people hard. There's a lot of humour and sadness and burning vamps and left-turns too. In a way, Sex Mob is about this too, but they totally cross the line into camp (i.e. they're trying really hard to be schticky and rock & roll). Not my favorites, but they've done some good stuff

Also, check out Songlines Records, I got a great compilation from them a long time ago that includes some unreleased Tiny Bell Trio and likeminded stuff. Jim Black and Brad Shepik were in like every band on there, and I always meant to buy more of their records.

Jordan (Jordan), Thursday, 16 September 2004 19:08 (twenty-one years ago)

I said "biggish," not big. I think it's maybe an octet or nonet. Not that you'd necessarily like it any better.

The '80s weren't so bad once you factor in the downtown scene (Zorn, et al), plus anomalies like the James Blood Ulmer/Ronald Shannon Jackson axis. I just had RSJ's Barbeque Dog out the other night, and it still sounds great.

Another great small group that might tickle your fancy based on the above info: Clusone 3, especially their stuff on Hat Art/Hut, if you can find it. And seriously, Joey Baron's Tongue in Groove. Not the albums by the Baron-led band of that name, but the album of that name.

Formerly Lee G (Formerly Lee G), Thursday, 16 September 2004 19:16 (twenty-one years ago)

x-post w/ the last two posts.

Some possible explanations (none of which I can really even begin to try to substantiate):

Generational change:
--widespread acceptance of Miles Davis electric music simply taken for granted by a certain younger element in jazz
--less "wed" to swing (accept maybe in the broadest sense), more openness toward newer pop/popular rhythms
--Sun Ra's emergence as a more central inspiration for the a.g.
--less commitment to some a.g. program, less to prove, (maybe even no more fundamental musical assumptions left to question?)

Rockist_Scientist (rockist_scientist), Thursday, 16 September 2004 19:18 (twenty-one years ago)

I think for a long time I have unfairly dismissed Joey Baron as a hippie

You've Got to Pick Up Every Stitch (tracerhand), Thursday, 16 September 2004 19:21 (twenty-one years ago)

I dunno about that. The other records of his I've heard never did much for me, hippie or no. But that one, uh, does. It's just him and Ellery Eskelin on sax and a trombonist whose name escapes me (Steve something). Lots of stuff that sounds like they were a little drunk, in a good way. Blatty and ballsy, that is.

Formerly Lee G (Formerly Lee G), Thursday, 16 September 2004 19:26 (twenty-one years ago)

--less commitment to some a.g. program, less to prove, (maybe even no more fundamental musical assumptions left to question?)

I like the sound of this. I'm so sick of the jazz ghetto, of "mainstream vs. avante garde" (or swing vs. free, or swing vs. beats), of fusion/electric Miles still being a remotely controversial issue in jazz, of people being stuck in the 60s & 70s.

It's all so tired. Everyone now has grown up with rock, hip-hop, electronic music, pop music, the same things as everyone else. People are going to play what they wanna play, and it's fucked up that jazz musicians would compartmentalize or suppress their influences. It's disingenous.

Jordan (Jordan), Thursday, 16 September 2004 19:28 (twenty-one years ago)

Joey Baron is great. He does not hate fun, and you can hear it in his playing. He's also bald.

Jordan (Jordan), Thursday, 16 September 2004 19:29 (twenty-one years ago)

Btw, I'm listening to my favorite jazz (?) of recent memory right now: the Tied + Tickled Trio 'Observing Systems (the blurb on that site is utter bullshit btw). I wouldn't say it's fun exactly, but it is beautiful and modern and honest.

Jordan (Jordan), Thursday, 16 September 2004 19:33 (twenty-one years ago)

(Suddenly, almost the only new releases I'm looking forward to buying are jazz CDs.

I want to back-pedal from this a little bit. I do look forward to some of the new salsa releases I buy, but realistically, there are few surprises, and rarely do I find a CD that is mostly good all the way through. Checking out something like the Groundtruther CD I plan on buying has an edge of the unexpected about it.)

Rockist_Scientist (rockist_scientist), Thursday, 16 September 2004 19:41 (twenty-one years ago)

Speaking of salsa (sorta), I just got Grupo Folklorico's Concepts in Unity in the mail. Anything else that good?

Formerly Lee G (Formerly Lee G), Thursday, 16 September 2004 19:45 (twenty-one years ago)

Is that the name of the Osby/Previte/Hunter band? I'd like to check that out too, I haven't seen it around.

I go in phases. If I buy jazz cds, I'm pretty much only interested in new stuff these days. Nothing's blown me away for awhile though, and I haven't actually bought any jazz in few months.

(x-post)

Gonzalo Rubacalba's drummer was playing in town this week, I think I might have missed him. :(

Jordan (Jordan), Thursday, 16 September 2004 19:47 (twenty-one years ago)

(Formerly Lee G, lots of things that good, in my opinion. Actually, I don't especially like that album though. More later we're closing.)

Rockist_Scientist (rockist_scientist), Thursday, 16 September 2004 19:51 (twenty-one years ago)

Is that the name of the Osby/Previte/Hunter band?

Grupo Folklorico? Nah, that's a Nuyorican supergroup from the '70s; I finally tracked down a copy of it on CD. It had been recommended to me, and the recommender did not lie. I don't know much about the NYC Latin scene, but I'm curious. Doesn't really have much to do with DD though, I guess.

Formerly Lee G (Formerly Lee G), Thursday, 16 September 2004 19:54 (twenty-one years ago)

Heh, I meant Groundtruther.

I was at a Jewish wedding in NYC once that had a klezmer band. They were pretty mediocre, but the trumpet player was fucking hot. I asked around and apparently he was one of the top salsa brass players in the city, go figure.

Jordan (Jordan), Thursday, 16 September 2004 20:03 (twenty-one years ago)

Is that the name of the Osby/Previte/Hunter band?

Yes. This is all pretty new to me, even though I know a lot of the names. (I've even seen Previte at least once. In fact, I thought he was one of the most interesting drummers to watch, because of the way he rolled his body into what he was doing. He looked like he was dancing while he was drumming. I haven't liked the solo recordings I've heard by him, but that was probably at least ten years ago.)

Rockist_Scientist (rockist_scientist), Thursday, 16 September 2004 21:42 (twenty-one years ago)

It's kind of a dumb sounding name if you ask me.

Rockist_Scientist (rockist_scientist), Thursday, 16 September 2004 21:50 (twenty-one years ago)

where should one begin with this cat? (nb: i own several masada records.)

jess (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 16 September 2004 21:51 (twenty-one years ago)

(Former Lee, I've tacked a response to your salsa querries here: Latin Music Newbie Seeks Albums)

You can also check out:

Is anyone here listening to salsa? Other Latin music?
Salsa Thread 2004

Rockist_Scientist (rockist_scientist), Thursday, 16 September 2004 21:56 (twenty-one years ago)

()

Rockist_Scientist (rockist_scientist), Thursday, 16 September 2004 21:57 (twenty-one years ago)

where should one begin with this cat?

Freak In is a nice riff on the classic Miles fusion sound.

bugged out, Thursday, 16 September 2004 22:08 (twenty-one years ago)

Thanks, Rock Sci; I'd been to those other threads, but every new nugget of info helps.

Formerly Lee G (Formerly Lee G), Thursday, 16 September 2004 22:47 (twenty-one years ago)

I feel honored and privileged that this has turned into a salsa thread. Every thread needs to turn into a salsa thread!

You've Got to Pick Up Every Stitch (tracerhand), Thursday, 16 September 2004 23:53 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm very sorry. I tried to redirect it.

Rockist_Scientist (rockist_scientist), Thursday, 16 September 2004 23:56 (twenty-one years ago)

Sorry, why don't you revive one of my salsa threads and talk about microhouse for a hundred posts or something. (I don't even know if you like microhouse, but just for example.)

Rockist_Scientist (rockist_scientist), Friday, 17 September 2004 00:01 (twenty-one years ago)

I love the last two albums and I'll cast another vote for Freak In. One of the stone cold essential albums of the half-decade. Dave Douglas, Marc Ribot, and Ikue Mori on one disc!

sundar subramanian (sundar), Friday, 17 September 2004 00:59 (twenty-one years ago)

Rockist I wasn't being counter-intuitive there, I meant it!

I still think Constellations is pretty hard to beat but all the other stuff I know is just piece-meal downloaded from the electron futurenet

You've Got to Pick Up Every Stitch (tracerhand), Friday, 17 September 2004 01:54 (twenty-one years ago)

I still haven't heard Freak In, but I'd say the Tiny Bell Trio stuff is his most fun and unique. The Charms of the Night Sky band (violin, accordion, bass, trumpet) is gorgeous lullabye music though. I like parts of all his straighter-ahead stuff (the Mary Lou Williams tribute Soul on Soul, The Infinite, Strange Liberation), but I don't think they really live up to the hype. I've always wanted to hear the Monk tribute he did with Misha Mengelberg and Han Bennink, I've heard it's some of his best playing, never got around to it though.

And for the record, the live Masada records I've heard (Live at Sevilla and Live at Tonic) blow the studio records out of the fucking water.

Jordan (Jordan), Friday, 17 September 2004 05:16 (twenty-one years ago)

Well, I'll give the older stuff a listen. I've just been too lazy.

sundar subramanian (sundar), Friday, 17 September 2004 05:17 (twenty-one years ago)

I like parts of all his straighter-ahead stuff (the Mary Lou Williams tribute Soul on Soul, The Infinite, Strange Liberation), but I don't think they really live up to the hype.

Word. They're nice records, but the more of them he makes, the less each one stands out. That said, his restless tacking keeps him popping out interesting projects. Straight-ahead line-ups getting a little snoozy? Check out his accordion band, or his protest album, or that Free Jazz-double-quartet-meets-electric-Miles thing.

Formerly Lee G (Formerly Lee G), Friday, 17 September 2004 13:47 (twenty-one years ago)

fourteen years pass...

http://www.freejazzblog.org/2019/07/dave-douglas-with-uri-caine-and-andrew.html

it's funny, i feel like the jazz records i am least able of evaluating properly are contemporary ones that don't have a whole gimmick or philosophy or method or whatever but are just good

j., Sunday, 4 August 2019 01:51 (six years ago)

like sorry pal, you made a record? and it's good? pffffft miss me

j., Sunday, 4 August 2019 01:52 (six years ago)

Dave Douglas is great.

Josh in Chicago, Sunday, 4 August 2019 13:19 (six years ago)

love that album, there is something really poignant about Francis of Anthony as well.

calzino, Sunday, 4 August 2019 13:52 (six years ago)

Love this guy...that last soundprints album was fantastic

X-Prince Protégé (sonnyboy), Sunday, 4 August 2019 23:01 (six years ago)

four months pass...

https://jazztrail.net/blog/dave-douglas-engage-album-review

His Engage album w/ Anna Webber/Tomeka Reid/Jeff Parker is so so good.

calzino, Wednesday, 18 December 2019 16:18 (five years ago)


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