whats the difference between jungle and drum n bass?

Message Bookmarked

Bookmark Removed

is it like the difference betwen rock n roll and rock, or is it just something that people in the scene differentiate between? i.e. is there even a line to be drawn there?

― splooge (thesplooge), Thursday, 16 September 2004 17:03 (twenty-one years ago)

one goes boom-chik-boom-boom-chik and the other one goes boom-boom-chick-boom.

― Shakey Mo Collier, Thursday, 16 September 2004 17:07 (twenty-one years ago)

ahhhhhhhhhh i see. now i can see the forest.

― splooge (thesplooge), Thursday, 16 September 2004 17:09 (twenty-one years ago)

(simplified)
Jungle = Drum n bass with ragga influences
Drum n bass = The generic therm

― Lilac engel, Thursday, 16 September 2004 17:20 (twenty-one years ago)

it's like strawberry jam and strawberry jelly.

― latebloomer (latebloomer), Thursday, 16 September 2004 17:20 (twenty-one years ago)

one is very aromatic and the other just smelly.

― latebloomer (latebloomer), Thursday, 16 September 2004 17:21 (twenty-one years ago)

Jungle = Fun

― noodle vague (noodle vague), Thursday, 16 September 2004 17:21 (twenty-one years ago)

i think dj krust said jungle was the more raggafied harder version, while drum n bass was more techy and is what came after.

― splooge (thesplooge), Thursday, 16 September 2004 17:26 (twenty-one years ago)

I'd say Drum n Bass was the label given to the jazzier, less rave-y stuff that developed (or aberrated) out of Jungle.

― noodle vague (noodle vague), Thursday, 16 September 2004 17:30 (twenty-one years ago)

dizzee rascal always says he was into drum n bass so not sure if dnb could be summarised only as the jazzier stuff. i wonder if he means jungle then, cos i hear more jungle in his music than drum n bass. or maybe its both. or maybe he just means it as a catch all term.

― splooge (thesplooge), Thursday, 16 September 2004 17:35 (twenty-one years ago)

IIRC, jungle was a bit of a contentious term in the mid-90's because of its racial overtones. Whereas the DnB moniker has no such connotations.

― Barry Bruner (Barry Bruner), Thursday, 16 September 2004 17:37 (twenty-one years ago)

's like any genre, I doubt there's a solid boundary line between the two. I got the feeling at the time that D n B was adopted as a label by people trying to distance themselves from the gonzo-ness of Jungle, but I'm sure there are people on ILM who can explain the real differences.

Plus, what Barry just said.

― noodle vague (noodle vague), Thursday, 16 September 2004 17:38 (twenty-one years ago)

Roundabout 1997, slowly but surely the new name took over from the old one. Same style, same scene.

― JoB (JoB), Thursday, 16 September 2004 17:46 (twenty-one years ago)

it's funny...

around 95 or so i had heard the term drum and bass but had heard no actual drum and bass and was left to imagine what it was. my GF at the time was studying at oxford and heard it there for the first time and said it was great. around the same time a german friend made me a tape that started with to rococo rot's "lift (denso)" which i loved. i said to self "hmm, this is music made up almost entirely of drum and bass. this must be drum and bass!" then to my GF: "hey, GF, check out this drum and bass. it's sweet." GF: "no, silly. that's not drum and bass. this is." and she played me something that went like "teken teken teken....boom chik, boomchik, boomboomchik chikachikaboomchik" etc. ha!

okay, it's not really funny.
back to yr thread.
oh, and that TRR "lift (denso)" track is totally awesome.

― andrew m. (andrewmorgan), Thursday, 16 September 2004 18:27 (twenty-one years ago)

I tend to think of the older, more clattery stuff as jungle and the newer stuff as drum n bass.

― Wooden (Wooden), Thursday, 16 September 2004 18:30 (twenty-one years ago)

It seems to me that most things categorized as 'drum n bass' are made with more gentle, subtle tones, where things considered 'jungle' more often incorporate dissonance and noize.

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Thursday, 16 September 2004 18:30 (twenty-one years ago)

The distinctions here make a lot of sense, but they have been hopelessly muddied by people who just choose either of the terms and use it to mean the whole genre. You can't safely assume that anyone using either term means anything separate from the two together. I think if you want to make a distinction, jungle came first as a raggaish offshoot of hardcore, drum & bass was coined for the jazzier, more intelligent, less brash stuff. There has obviously never been a clear line separating the two areas.

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Thursday, 16 September 2004 19:02 (twenty-one years ago)

I've always wondered about this, so this thread is helpful, or hopefully will be before too long. A couple more dumb questions, though: What exactly do the people above mean by "jazzy"? What kind of "jazz" does that refer to? And does "ragga" mean Jamaican music, or Indian music? (If so, how is different from reggae, or raga?) Or does it mean something else entirely? Thanks!

― chuck, Thursday, 16 September 2004 19:08 (twenty-one years ago)

Ragga was derived from reggae with more modern dance influences, sort of between reggae and jungle - and between ragga and jungle you might locate Shut Up And Dance and their label of the same name.

Jazzy drum & bass: listen to Roni Size or much of Formation's output. Horns and stuff, less violence and aggression.

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Thursday, 16 September 2004 19:15 (twenty-one years ago)

I've of late been using d'n'b to refer to the angrier stuff and jungle to refer to the beatier stuff. In the small cardboard box in which I live, D'n'b rhythms are simpler and stronger, and the music rides on the bassline being big and angry. Jungle rhythms have longer patterns, are more irregular in the kick/snare relationship, and have softer, rounder bass lines with a harmony over the top.

So d'n'b = jungle/2 - harmony + bass*4

― damian_nz (damian_nz), Thursday, 16 September 2004 20:05 (twenty-one years ago)

i dunno if you can characterize formation's stuff as "less aggressive" martin.

― jess (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 16 September 2004 20:09 (twenty-one years ago)

d'n'b = jungle lite.

― jesus nathalie (nathalie), Thursday, 16 September 2004 20:10 (twenty-one years ago)

I think "jazzy" = electric piano.

― Jordan (Jordan), Thursday, 16 September 2004 20:12 (twenty-one years ago)

fender rhodes killed jungle

― jess (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 16 September 2004 20:14 (twenty-one years ago)

okay not really

― jess (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 16 September 2004 20:14 (twenty-one years ago)

talkin loud killed jungle. no, mercury music prize killed it. ok, not really.

― splooge (thesplooge), Thursday, 16 September 2004 20:16 (twenty-one years ago)

ok, i now think its totally fine to think of jungle and drum n bass as two different things, even if its just subtly different. its like the difference between i dunno, hardcore and happy hardcore or something. then again, i still think there was a pretty reasonably profound difference between rock n roll and rock, im just not sure when one ended and the other began.

― splooge (thesplooge), Thursday, 16 September 2004 20:18 (twenty-one years ago)

actually im more interested to know if DNB heads like martin clark think theres a difference, or if other people deeply rooted in dance scenes think of them differently.

― splooge (thesplooge), Thursday, 16 September 2004 20:20 (twenty-one years ago)

You're right about some of Formation, Jess, but they have put out lots of jazzier and more intelligent stuff, so I thought they were a decent example.

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Thursday, 16 September 2004 21:41 (twenty-one years ago)

that late-94 through early-96 moment when "jungle" was turning into "drum & bass" is probably my fave period for the music when it comes right down to it.

― jess (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 16 September 2004 21:43 (twenty-one years ago)

yes

― gaz (gaz), Thursday, 16 September 2004 21:48 (twenty-one years ago)

omg i am listening to disc 3 of that formation 100 collection and this is the best thing ever

― jess (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 16 September 2004 21:49 (twenty-one years ago)

its very strange music, isn't it? or isn't it?

― gaz (gaz), Thursday, 16 September 2004 21:54 (twenty-one years ago)

yeah it's funny...one of the things which makes the much backlash derided reynoldsian "continuum" idea work for me is that listening to this 95-era formation stuff...i'm not sure anyone could have conceieved this stuff right off the top of their head and thought "this would be good to dance to"

― jess (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 16 September 2004 21:57 (twenty-one years ago)

i mean it makes perfect sense if you add up all the bits, tick off where they supposedly developed from etc. but then you hear it and you think WTF? when it lost this it lost me

― gaz (gaz), Thursday, 16 September 2004 21:59 (twenty-one years ago)

yeah these basslines have no antecedent, i think. that wobbly aphrodite jump-up thing. i can't think of a single referent before like 1994.

― jess (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 16 September 2004 22:00 (twenty-one years ago)

i can't remember where but i remember reading a diss of squarepusher and all that "taking it to the next level" bullshit that came with him and his ilk where it just said: you think some white boy muso could ever have come up with the idea of chopping up an amen break like that?

― gaz (gaz), Thursday, 16 September 2004 22:02 (twenty-one years ago)

i am getting all afro-diasporic nostalgic again. stop me.

― jess (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 16 September 2004 22:03 (twenty-one years ago)

i'm reading energy flash for the first time

― gaz (gaz), Thursday, 16 September 2004 22:05 (twenty-one years ago)

the chapter i neglected to read this morning on the train cos i was listening to sun ra is called "war in the jungle"

everything is connected man

― gaz (gaz), Thursday, 16 September 2004 22:06 (twenty-one years ago)

did that work?

― gaz (gaz), Thursday, 16 September 2004 22:07 (twenty-one years ago)

yes. i'm going to go listen to country now.

― jess (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 16 September 2004 22:07 (twenty-one years ago)

if other people deeply rooted in dance scenes think of them differently.

Like I said upthread, it was just a new name for the same style. I guess the producers felt limited by the crude image of "jungle". People still using the therm jungle today are consciously alligning themselves with a pre 2-step (not the UK garage 2-step!, but something like Jonny L's Piper, which was a bit of a watershed when it came out), drum 'n bass with more 'rhythmic danger' and suchlike.

― JoB (JoB), Thursday, 16 September 2004 22:08 (twenty-one years ago)

I agree with JoB - the name "drum & bass" pretty much replaced "jungle" across the board. Of course it suited people who wanted to make the name for the genre more respectable, usually the same people who wanted to make the music more respectable, but I don't think that there was ever a time where someone would say that two competitive sub-genres with these names co-existed. And yeah, I like "jungle" because it feels like it applies to most of the stuff that I like and not to most of the stuff I don't (as Tom once said of A Guy Called Gerald, "real jungle music") - for me it implies profusion, tangle, dense rhythmic lushness and canopy. Of course there is some cool clinical neurofunk I love for which it sounds a bit odd, and certainly the current style of drum and bass (choppage excepted) doesn't really fit the term "jungle" and what it implies at all.

― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Thursday, 16 September 2004 22:22 (twenty-one years ago)

Of course it suited people who wanted to make the name for the genre more respectable

There were people at the time--people making the music, I mean--who thought the term "jungle" was a touch racist, too.

― bugged out, Thursday, 16 September 2004 22:24 (twenty-one years ago)

which is odd because it was the scene that came up with it! I still think it's the perfect word to describe the sound circa 94-95.

― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Thursday, 16 September 2004 22:29 (twenty-one years ago)

Did it? I can't remember anymore. Too many apocryphal stories...

― bugged out, Thursday, 16 September 2004 22:45 (twenty-one years ago)

Whoops....

Did it? I can't remember anymore. Too many apocryphal stories...

"Drum and bass is also known as Jungle, a moniker stemming from a rough area in Kingston, Jamaica originally known as Concrete Jungle. It was likely named after this area due to the harshness or roughness of the beats and rhythm.

"In fact the name originates from one of the experimental clubs in London, called "Jungle" where the first fusion experiments were played. The term "jungle", though, had remained in the underground until 1993."

"Some people argue that the term "jungle" comes from the old James Brown compilation "Into the Jungle Groove." Is this true?

There are so many rumors as to where it comes from. A lot of people say that it comes from racist connotations in London, because so many inner-city black people were listening to the music, especially in '92, '93, '94. If you went to London then, any car driving by with a massive sound system in it was probably bumping jungle. There were something like 20 pirate radio stations in London at one time, operating on the roofs of old housing-project apartment buildings--the people operating these stations were always running from the cops. The music would be talked of in racist terms by the cops as being "jungle music."

"One theory is that the early nineties hardcore label Ibiza spawned it, with their first ever release, 1992's white label "Jungle Techno". Some point to Rebel MC's constant mic chant, "Calling All Junglists!", itself derived from the Jamaican MCS favoured chant in the seventies."

"Jungle’s origins are from England and it is named after the big concrete, metallic 'jungle' city."

"It was roughly at this point that the term "jungle" came into use. Open to a great deal of misinterpretation, its’ coining is generally attributed to Fabio, long-time DJ partner of Grooverider..."

― bugged out, Thursday, 16 September 2004 22:46 (twenty-one years ago)

so its kinda like 50s R&B turning into 60s soul, no? lots of people call it all the same thing, despite the subtle differences.

― splooge (thesplooge), Thursday, 16 September 2004 23:43 (twenty-one years ago)

DJ /rupture: "It’s funny, I started off as a jungle DJ, and I like to talk about jungle in linguistic terms: it’s very fertile, very overgrown, very dense, many layers, sort of flattening into drum & bass, this thing with just two parts. It’s sort of like that name has superimposed its formula onto the music. That’s what happened in this era, with these two-step beats; in terms of the track’s dynamics, it’s hit this plateau. We get two seconds and that’s it. Where with ragga-jungle was like one big buildup, and there’s all these crazy drum skids, rewind noises, there’s all these highs and lows. This is just stagnant. And it’s still stuck in it, basically."

― Matos W.K. (M Matos), Friday, 17 September 2004 00:11 (twenty-one years ago)

Skipping 119 messages at this point... Click here if you want to load them all.

But here is the vital question: WHAT HAPPENED TO GOLDIE'S MOVIE? ALSO WHY I CANNOT FIND THE NEW ISSUE OF KNOWLEDGE WITH THE DJ CLEVER MIX ON THE COVER?!?!?

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Tuesday, 23 May 2006 15:32 (nineteen years ago)

BTW the complaints about Photek not being a DJ are pretty weird considering that really only Randall (and Spikey, I guess) on that lineup were actually DJs.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Tuesday, 23 May 2006 15:40 (nineteen years ago)

what are you talking about, doc scott played my jr. high prom.

― goonie goonie moony juney purple spoonie killa noonie (dubplatestyle), Tuesday, 23 May 2006 15:41 (nineteen years ago)

Doc Scott played out a lot, saw him several times (later on tho i.e. techstep inception). Don't know about Bizzy B. Photek practically never played out.

If Photek makes bangers now, that makes a lot more sense re why he's on the line-up.

Nobody here is suggesting Photek >> jungle or vice versa, just that he stands out in that line-up.

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Tuesday, 23 May 2006 15:44 (nineteen years ago)

Playing out /= dj'ing just like laptops /= turntables.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Tuesday, 23 May 2006 15:49 (nineteen years ago)

what do you mean? nobody was using laptops in '96!

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Tuesday, 23 May 2006 15:52 (nineteen years ago)

Was no one? Doc Scott didn't release a bunch of mixes, he wasn't known primarily (or even secondarily) as a selector and correct me if I am wrong buy he wasn't djing on pirates or anything like that. He may have played (or even djed) a few raves or club nights or whatever (esp. post-96) but that doesn't exactly make you Hype or Fabio.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Tuesday, 23 May 2006 15:59 (nineteen years ago)

> But here is the vital question: WHAT HAPPENED TO GOLDIE'S MOVIE?

(dunno which movie you're talking about, vague recollections but...) possibly delayed due to his accident?

> ALSO WHY I CANNOT FIND THE NEW ISSUE OF KNOWLEDGE WITH THE DJ CLEVER MIX ON THE COVER?!?!?

they are falling off the shelves here in hammersmith. 8)

― koogs (koogs), Tuesday, 23 May 2006 16:06 (nineteen years ago)

When I say played I mean DJing in these cases. Photek himself didn't do live music sets until very late 90s (and that was with live band anyway?).

Scott represents the ground between Randall and Photek i think due to fairly regular DJing (in my memory at least) and production - on about the same level as someone like Krust at that point. So it seems as if they wanted a DJ (Randall), producer (Photek), marriages of the two (Scott, Remarc - and i'm not sure Remarc himself DJ'd as much as Scott either)...there are so many names all on equal footing that it could've been one of about 20 others in Scott's place as well as Photek's but the point is Photek wasn't as known as Scott for making the bangers or indeed as known as Randall for playing them.

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Tuesday, 23 May 2006 16:10 (nineteen years ago)

i think Goldie's movie was just shelved because he got offered parts in actual proper films (and Eastenders) and the celeb distraction stopped him even making music let alone his own film.

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Tuesday, 23 May 2006 16:11 (nineteen years ago)

FTR I don't think Remarc and Bizzy B dj'd at all really back then. It seems strange to me to look at that list and see anything startling about Photek being on it. If anything Randall (who only produced one or two tunes I think) seems more the aberration.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Tuesday, 23 May 2006 16:19 (nineteen years ago)

i've never even heard of Bizzy B and assumed he was representing for the 00s arf

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Tuesday, 23 May 2006 16:31 (nineteen years ago)

I disagree with the notion that Photek wasn't putting out bangers in the crucial period circa 93 - 94 - what about all his old and great Studio Pressure tracks? Yes, they were kinda melodic, but erm so were Grooverider's (ocassional) releases at that point in time (in fact "Dream of Heaven" is totally in the same ballpark as "Relics" etc. albeit with slightly better beats. Was Grooverider making his own beats at this stage or did he have a pre-Optical shadowy ghost producer??). Photek's stuff at that stage was certainly harder than say Good Looking (except when he actually released stuff on Good Looking) and I don't think we'd resent LTJ Bukem being mention in relation to old school jungle!

Unless we're using some hyper-narrow and random definition of "old skool" as, like, only Remarc.

You can't really judge any jungle producer's eligibility for an old skool event on the basis of what they were doing in 1996.

― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Tuesday, 23 May 2006 21:07 (nineteen years ago)

no "booyaka selector", no credibility.

― FLOWING STRAIGHT FROM THE SURVIVAL SCROLL (vahid), Tuesday, 23 May 2006 21:09 (nineteen years ago)

"Jungle" is completely pointless and undescriptive whereas "drum'n'bass" does at least namecheck two instruments featuring in virtually all popular music since the mid 50s. :)

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Tuesday, 23 May 2006 21:20 (nineteen years ago)

What's all this bullshit about jungle being harder than DnB?

― Seth Powell (Sef), Tuesday, 23 May 2006 21:22 (nineteen years ago)

watch out ! Geir "The Junglist" About !!!!!!!

How many Jungle/Drum n Bass albums in Geir's collection ?

joint evens favourites

Goldie - Timeless
Roni Size - that Mercury Prize winning album

― DJ Martian (djmartian), Tuesday, 23 May 2006 21:23 (nineteen years ago)

i love clownstep

― chaki (chaki), Tuesday, 23 May 2006 21:24 (nineteen years ago)

The History Of Drum & Bass Music

Article originally written in 1997 by VN's Kingsley Marshall
http://www.trugroovez.com/history-drum-bass-music.htm

― DJ Martian (djmartian), Tuesday, 23 May 2006 21:26 (nineteen years ago)

How many Jungle/Drum n Bass albums in Geir's collection ?
joint evens favourites

Goldie - Timeless
Roni Size - that Mercury Prize winning album

Well, those two are indeed in my collection. I also used to have "Saturnz Return", but I sold it as I realised it was rubbish. :)

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Tuesday, 23 May 2006 21:28 (nineteen years ago)

Geir you should be proud of your fellow Norwegian citizen: Teebee
http://rateyourmusic.com/artist/teebee

― DJ Martian (djmartian), Tuesday, 23 May 2006 21:30 (nineteen years ago)

Btw. I like some d'n'b (not jungle, I think) because of the sort of intellectual approach to rhythm. D'n'b isn't mainly about dancing, it is a lot more about inventing intereresting rhythms. A bit like progressive rock used to be back in the 70s when they used a lot of 7/4, 11/8 and 5/4.

Plus those stereo effects on "Timeless"/"Inner City Life" are some of the most brilliant ever!

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Tuesday, 23 May 2006 21:30 (nineteen years ago)

I love how Geir is happy to be the living embodiment of so many music crit strawmen. He's taking hits for the team!

― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Tuesday, 23 May 2006 21:34 (nineteen years ago)

exactly, he has dedication to his cause and beliefs, unlike weasely ol' po-momus

― latebloomer (latebloomer), Tuesday, 23 May 2006 21:54 (nineteen years ago)

Loads of jungle (or what I think of as jungle, note disclaimer) has extremely interesting rhythms; see Super Sharp Shooter by Ganja Cru or Piano Tune by Peshay, for just two examples.

― chap who would dare to be a nerd, not a geek (chap), Tuesday, 23 May 2006 22:22 (nineteen years ago)

Geir is really weird.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Tuesday, 23 May 2006 22:46 (nineteen years ago)

haha i love geir! he said "friggin" last night!

― goonie goonie moony juney purple spoonie killa noonie (dubplatestyle), Tuesday, 23 May 2006 22:56 (nineteen years ago)

He sticks to his beliefs. Americans admire that in a man.

― Steve Goldberg (Steve Goldberg), Tuesday, 23 May 2006 23:30 (nineteen years ago)

to be fair re Photek i conveniently forgot about 'UFO'!

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Wednesday, 24 May 2006 08:16 (nineteen years ago)

1997: who was illest?

Grooverider Essential Mix

UF1 - ?gThe River [V.I.P Mix]?h (actetate)
FM - ?gCrusin Detroit?h (Moving Shadow)
Matrix - ?guntitled?h (acetate)
DJ Peshay - ?gJazz Lick?h (Metalheadz)
DJ Krust - ?gSlow Motion?h (acetate)
Boymerang - ?gMind Control?h (acetate)
Optical - ?guntitled?h (acetate)
Fierce - ?guntitled?h (actetate)
Codename John - ?gWarned?h (Prototype Recordings)
Lemon D - ?gCity Lights?h (Prototype Recordings)
DJ Krust - ?guntitled?h (acetate)
Alex Reece - ?gJazzmaster?h (Island)
Matrix - ?gMute?h (Prototype Recordings)
Optical - ?guntitled?h (acetate)
Cybotron - ?guntitled?h (acetate)
Photek - ?gTwo Sounds?h (acetate)
Technical Itch - ?guntitled?h (acetate)
Doc Scott - ?gShadow Boxing Remix?h (31 Recordings)
Cybotron - ?guntitled?h (acetate)
LTJ Bukem - ?gMusic Rework?h (acetate)
Subject 13 - ?gJazz Style?h (Creative Source)
Matrix - ?guntitled?h (NU-D)
DJ Krust - ?g12 Mins?h (Fulll Cycle)

Jonny L Essential Mix 1997

Bukem & Peshay - ?gReprisal?h (Good Looking)
artist unknown - ?guntitled?h (Timeless)
Cybotron featuring Dillinja - ?gThreshold?h (Prototype)
Jonny L. - ?gPiper?h (XL)
John B. - ?gSight Beyond?h (New Identity)
Twister - ?gDecoder?h (Tech Itch)
Boymerang - ?gStill?h (Prototype)
Ed Rush - ?gDensity?h (Metalheadz)
Jonny L. - ?gCommon Origin?h (XL)
Source Direct - ?g12 till 4?? (Hokusai)
Universal - ?gGroove therapy?h (Looking Good)
New Balance - ?gRelfections?h (Looking Good)
Top Buzz - ?gLivin In Darkness?h (Basement)
Jonny L. - ?gHurt U So?h (Tuch Wood)
Nookie featuring Larry Head - ?gMystical People?h (Labello Blanco)
artist unknown - ?guntitled?h (Labello Blanco Promo)
Photek - ?g7A?c?h (PG)
Jonny L - ?gTychonic Cycle?h (XL)
Wax Doctor - ?gOffshore Drift?h (R&S)
Hidden Agenda - ?gSwing Time?h (Metalheadz)
Source Direct - ?gStonekiller?h (Metalheadz)
Dillinja - ?gThe Angles Fell?h (Metalheadz)
Decoder - ?gFog?h (Tech Itch)
Ed Rush & Nico - ?gTechnology?h (No U Turn)

Photek Essential Mix 1997

Digital - ?gTex?h (Photek)
Digital - ?gSub Zero?h (Photek)
Spirit - ?gPrologue?h (Photek)
Photek - ?gThe Seven Samurai [Photek Remix]?h (Photeck)
Peshay - ?gContempory Acoustic Jazz?h (Mowax)
Peshay - ?gMiles From Home?h (Mowax)
Digital - ?gLower Depths?h (Photek)
Photek - ?gThe Water Margin [Photek Remix]?h (Photek)
N.O.H.A. - ?gStart [Optical Remix]?h (Groove Attack)
Peshay - ?gSwitch?h (Mowax)
Hidden Agenda - ?gBig Lamp?h (Metalheadz)
Photek - ?gNeptune?h (Metalheadz)
Photek - ?gYendi?h (Science)
Goldie - ?gMother?h (ffrr)

Roni Size Essential Mix 1997

Roni Size - ?gJazzy?h (V)
Roni Size - ?gSharday?h (Dub Plate)
3 Way - ?gSargent General?h (Dope Dragon)
Scorpian - ?gBreak Beat Terror?h (Full Cycle)
Scorpian - ?gLi Li?h (V)
untitled - ?gBass Game [Roni Size Remix]?h (Dope On Plastic)
UFO - ?gThe Planet Plan [DJ Die Remix]?h (Talkin Loud)
DJ Die - ?gOn Time?h (V)
DJ Krust - ?gGoing Nowhere?h (Full Cycle)
artist unknown - ?gSanta Cruz [DJ Krust Remix]?h (white label)
Gang - ?gRukus?h (Dope Dragon)
Scorpio - ?gLife Forever?h (Full Cycle)
Roni Size/Reprazent - ?gHi Potent?h (Talkin Loud)
Scorpio - ?gBreak Beat Era?h (Full Cycle)
TLA Rock - ?gIt?fs Your?h (white label)
Big Daddy - ?gDetrain?h (Cold Chillin)
Sucker DJ - ?gDimples?h (Accedela)
Run DMC - ?gSucker MC?fs?h (Def Jam)
Jimmy Spicer - ?gDoller Bill?h (white label)
Jame Brar - ?gFunky Drummer?h (white label)
Yellow Magic Orchestra - ?guntitled?h (white label)
DJ Krust - ?gSoul In Motion?h (Full Cycle)
DJ Krust - ?gFuture Unknown?h (Talkin Loud)
artist unknown - ?gCathy [Roni Size Remix]?h (V)
Diyz - ?gWar And Peace?h (white label)
Roni Size/Reprazent - ?gBrown Paper Bag?h (Talkin Loud)

― FLOWING STRAIGHT FROM THE SURVIVAL SCROLL (vahid), Wednesday, 24 May 2006 15:45 (nineteen years ago)

Sure as hell not Photek's mix! It ends with "Mother"!

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 24 May 2006 15:58 (nineteen years ago)

Roni Size's mix looks like that Soul Jazz Mantronix comp with V records trax stuffed in.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 24 May 2006 16:00 (nineteen years ago)

Goldie's own Essential Mix from '96 still one of my faves ever

Rufige Kru - "Dark Metal" (dub plate)
Grooverider - "John Prototype" (dub plate)
Doc Scott - "Champion Sound Dub" (Legend Records)
Doc Scott - "Machines" (dub plate)
J Majik - "Your Sound" (Metalheadz)
Dillinga - "Promise" (Metalheadz)
artist unknown - "For The MCs [Tom & Jerry Remix]" (BMG/RCA)
LTJ Bukem - "Music" (Good Looking)
Skanna - "Skanna" (Fine Me)
Blame - "Planet Neptune" (Moving Shadow)
Ed Rush - "Subway" (Prototype)
Ruffige Cru - "Riderz Ghost" (Metalheadz)
Doc Scott - "Drums '96" (Metalheadz)
artist unknown - "Ghost [The Rollers Mix]" (Metalheadz)
Digital - "Space Funk" (Timeless Records)
Goldie - "This Is A Bad [Source Direct Remix]" (dub plate)
Photek - "The Rain [Remix]" (Razor's Edge)
Lemon D - "Urban Style Music" (Metalheadz)
Adam F - "Circles" (Section 5)
Roni Size - "Ready Or Not" (V)
Goldie - "Kemistry [Grooverider Remix]" (Razors Edge)
Goldie - "Jah [Original Prototype]" (ffrr)
Goldie - "Still Life [VIP Roller]" (ffrr)
Blame/Justice - "Athemea" (Moving Shadow)
artist unknown - ? (Reinforced?)

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Wednesday, 24 May 2006 16:05 (nineteen years ago)

Yeah I say that mix wins.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 24 May 2006 16:13 (nineteen years ago)

Goldie has always has good taste as a DJ. His "Retro" disc on his INCredible comp was mostly pretty fab, introduced me to Neil Trix's "Gestures Without Motion" in particular.

― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Wednesday, 24 May 2006 22:13 (nineteen years ago)

photek's mix makes a pretty killer one-hour disc if you edit out "mother" (he played the WHOLE thing! talk about riding dick!)

― renegade bear shot by cops on frat row (vahid), Wednesday, 24 May 2006 22:26 (nineteen years ago)

Photek in 'no taste' shocker! haha.

I love the way some people - OK, Geir - are claiming that D'n'B was more melodically inventive than jungle. Drum'n'Bass ultimately reduced the rhythms down to simple kick-snare-kick-snare patterns, whilst jungle paratically invented patterns which went something like:

kick, snare, snare, snare, kick, kick, snare, snare, snare, crash, kick, snare, snare, snare, kick, snare, (snare sample +1 semitone, +2 semitone, +3 semitone, +4 semitone, +5 semitone, +6 semitone, +7 semitone).

Unless someone else can point to an earlier time when cut-ups hits from breaks were used, AND also freed from their standard keys?

― Chewshabadoo (Chewshabadoo), Thursday, 25 May 2006 08:53 (nineteen years ago)

probably the track's debut on radio - maybe the ONLY time it was ever played on radio! that's actually pretty cool if you think about it...

no? ok.

(xpost)

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Thursday, 25 May 2006 08:54 (nineteen years ago)

er, by melodically I obviously mean rhythymically (I didn't get much sleep last night!)

― Chewshabadoo (Chewshabadoo), Thursday, 25 May 2006 08:57 (nineteen years ago)

i listened to some recent dnb and it's all boring 'kick--snare, kick-snare' now - what happened to even 'kick-snare-kick-snare-kickkickkick' let alone 'kick--snaresnare kick-snare'?!

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Thursday, 25 May 2006 08:57 (nineteen years ago)

"when I were a lad" etc.

― Jacob (Jacob), Thursday, 25 May 2006 09:20 (nineteen years ago)

just a bump to point out that the Old Skool thing is now listen-againable. track listing and link to show here:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio1/maryannehobbs/

― koogy wonderland (koogs), Wednesday, 31 May 2006 07:48 (nineteen years ago)

your wrong Geir...d'n'b is all about dancing.

my theory is that a large part of this jungle loving / d'n'b hating is peole being lead along by reynold's opinions.....jungle is of course more rhythmically dexterious...but d'n'b is tougher and has a wider range of textures ( and better production of course). i love old jungle...but to me d'n'b stripped jungle down to the bare minimum to make it funkier.

photek's recent stuff is insanely good

― grapple (grapple), Wednesday, 31 May 2006 10:47 (nineteen years ago)

on wikipedia these are listed as sub genres

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drum_n_bass

Clownstep - Darkstep - Drumfunk - Hardstep - Intelligent drum and bass - Jump-Up - Liquid funk - Neurofunk - Techmospheric - Techstep - Wobble

is someone making things up:
Techmospheric
Wobble

also:

jungle
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oldschool_jungle

sub genres

Ragga jungle, Darkside jungle, Intelligent jungle

― DJ Martian (djmartian), Wednesday, 31 May 2006 11:40 (nineteen years ago)

wobble is another name for clownstep innit ?

― grapple (grapple), Wednesday, 31 May 2006 12:37 (nineteen years ago)

can anyone actually name as many as FIVE tracks that would qualify as 'Clownstep'?

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Wednesday, 31 May 2006 12:40 (nineteen years ago)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clownstep does a good job

― koogy wonderland (koogs), Wednesday, 31 May 2006 13:22 (nineteen years ago)

a drum n bass mix

Tracks, in rough order of apperance:

Optical - The Shining (rmx)
Ed Rush & Optical - Slip Thru/Point Blank (edit)
Paradox - Hologram
Ed Rush & Optical - Naked Lunch
Bad Company Deadside
Cause 4 Concern - Life Support
Jonny L - Move Upon
Calibre - What U Need
Total Science - My World
Special Forces - The End (rmx)
Polar - 5AM
Breakage - Astro Cat
Noisia - Believe
Photek - Ni Ten Ichi Ryu (TeeBee rmx)
Kraken - Side Effects (VIP)
Tactile - Collie
Marky & XRS - Closer
K - Oblivious
LTJ Bukem - Horizons
Dillinja - 12 Inch Flares
Ed Rush & Optical - Funktion
ST Cal - Red Light
J Majik - Your Sound (rmx)
Seba & Paradox - Wakeup Call
Roni Size - Timestretch (1995 Relick)
Calibre - Deep Everytime
Mathematics vs Tactile - Chonga
Nookie - Bad Habits
Ed Rush & Nico - Bludclot (Unreleased Mix)
Breakage - Drowning
Jonny L - The Bells
Bad Company - Pulse
Usual Suspects - Killa Bees (Konflict rmx)
Paradox - Hologram
Cause 4 Concern - White Widow
Dom & Roland - Sky Spirits
Origin Unknown - Valley of the Shadows
Bad Company - The Nine
Codename John - The Warning
Matrix & Futurebound - American Beauty
Equinox - Rockers International
Tactile - Sandtrap
Origin Unknown - Equinox
Calibre - My Chance
Marky & XRS - LK
Noisa & TeeBee - Lost Cause
K - No Sleep
Taxman - Electric Blue
Calibre - Go Back to Go Forward
Matrix - Airhead
Taxman - Too Bad
Breakage - Astrocat

― yours fondly, harshaw. (mrgn), Wednesday, 31 May 2006 15:47 (nineteen years ago)

seventeen years pass...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vDZHEAwDAVo

― Siegbran, Monday, 15 April 2024 10:31 (one year ago)

I've had this clip in my YT recommendations for ages and for the longest time I was puzzled why RA was doing a roundtable on this featuring exclusively young white people before I realised it was a screengrab from the University Challenge thing.

― Daniel_Rf, Monday, 15 April 2024 10:54 (one year ago)

You must be logged in to post. Please either login here, or if you are not registered, you may register here.