What was John Fogerty's feud with the rest of CCR about?

Which could be translated to $$$.

It all comes down to the almighty dollar.

That mean green.

x-post

I could be wrong, but I think they toured without him before CCRevisited, before the Hall of Fame thing.

I don't know that that's true, but if it is I wouldn't blame him. He couldn't make money off his songs but band members who didn't write them could?

Yeah, but if he didn't want to tour with them, that's his fault. Fuck, I can make money off of John Fogerty songs if I go around to coffeeshops and sing them. That's the nature of song licenses! Anyone can perform them if they're willing to pay the royalties. And it's John's own fault that he didn't receive royalties; he signed the fucking contract!

Right, but imagine paying royalties to sing your own songs. And imagine your bandmates thinking that's OK.

And it's John's own fault that he didn't receive royalties; he signed the fucking contract!

I'm reasonably confident that when the contract was poresented to him, the record company's lawyer didn't say, handing him the pen, "Oh, by the way - you don't get a red cent of royalty money." This was a long time ago, remember, and musicians were getting ripped off all the time. Heck, they still are - imagine what was going on when musicians had 40 years' less savvy in these things.

And as John Fogerty discovered in 1997 when he started doing the old CCR songs again in concert, just because someone else owns the songs in a legal sense, doesn't mean that that person owns them in a higher, more spiritual sense.

So, anyway, I guess I understand his anger, but it just seems like he's taking out his anger on the wrong people. And sure, maybe it's bad taste, or even insensitive for the other guys to play John's songs, but they were a band, not session musicians. And they have as much right to do the songs as anyone else. It doesn't necessarily indicate that they agree with the way things turned out-- but they, unlike John, made the best of a bad situation.

Cook/Clifford had a band in the 80s called "Cosmos Factory" and then toured as CCR until Fogerty sued, then they became Creedence Clearwater Revisited in the 90s - bizarrely with Elliot Easton from The Cars playing guitar for them.

I love CCR as much as any band ever, but John Fogerty is a dick.

http://www.library.law.columbia.edu/music_plagiarism/028/028.html

New album coming out with Fogerty covers of "Proud Mary" and more

WROTE A SONG FOR EVERYONE marks the singer, songwriter and guitarist’s ninth studio solo album since disbanding Creedence Clearwater Revival. Mixed by Bob Clearmountain, it was recorded in Los Angeles and Nashville except for "Proud Mary" which was recorded in New Orleans with Allen Toussaint and the Rebirth Brass Band. FOGERTY recorded “Fortunate Son” with Foo Fighters at their 606 studio using "the" legendary Neve recording console featured in the #1 iTunes documentary Sound City. A celebration of FOGERTY’s iconic songbook, the much-anticipated album is a collection of 12 classics and deep tracks (Creedence Clearwater Revival and solo material) from his remarkable canon of hits recorded in collaboration with today’s biggest superstars from the country, pop and rock worlds, plus two brand new solo songs.

Oh boy, Fogerty and the Foo Fighters doing "Fortunate Son." Maybe this will be better than it looks to me

"deep tracks . . . from his remarkable canon of hits"

something ain't right

Well, Rolling Stone gave it 5 stars, so it can't possibly be a desperate, hackish piece of shit.

Right?

i don't think anything he would sign his name to would be a piece of shit

all the same, i've yet to see proof that the foo fighters (probably the most mediocre rock band to sustain massive popularity for over a decade) can choogle

almost everything he's done solo (after the 1st two solo albums I guess) have been slightly retooled roots-rock moves a la creedence (I'm OK w/ that part, since he does this stuff so well) with lyrics that are just increasingly warmed over clichés about deltas and swamps and such (i don't like this so much, particularly since he sounds like he's parodying his own lyrics)

One of you tweeted this the other day and it was informative.

John Fogerty Google Search

Are CCR the most critically untouchable late 60s band?

It's hard to find a huge number of people who have a bad word to say about them.

haha yeah i retweeted this

Stephen T Erlewine ‏@sterlewine 22 May
Here’s a fun Google search: “John Fogerty refused.”

I've never met a person who hates or even dislikes Creedence.

(those who have heard of them obvs.)

Why the hell do I only own Green River?

underrated aero is the board's lone defiant ccr hater iirc

I'd be interested to hear his reasons...

why the flippin' heck did CCR record three albums in '69 and two in '70. Did they have a contract from hell or was Fogerty just that manic about putting his stuff out?

Five stars for the new album from any publication seems stupid and wrong for Fogerty-covers-Fogerty with special guests. Fogerty is forever five stars. This idea is two at best.

There should be a poll for most number of great albums in the shortest span of time. CCR, the Smiths, Beatles ...

I'm not actually a super-hater I just don't care to listen to them because I really hate the way Fogerty sings. I want to give him some prunes and encourage him to drink eight glasses of water a day. I would listen to them play instrumentally and probably dig it, or with a better singer, like Jandek

yeah, I can see how Fogerty's voice would be a major turn-off to a lot of people, not the easiest vox to love if you're not inclined to that style.

xpost Josh: that would be like asking "pick only five Stevie Wonder songs from his classic era" - i.e. near impossible without some serious injustice.

same could be said for a "best CCR album" poll.

You know what's cool? The third disc of the box set, which is a twofer of Green River & Willy and the Poorboys.

The old man down the road: 68 today.

I love CCR, think everyone on the fence should check out the Willy And The Poor Boys album, but if someone says they can't stand Fogerty's voice that's the one potential kryptonite I'll concede

i mean you could write a book about all the cool shit they did but someone can always respond with "dude he says 'boining'" and be in the right

The marc maron wtf interview is pretty great. Goes into the Tom Fogerty fall-out a bit. Best part is Fogerty talking about how the Dead wrecked Woodstock for CCR, and some gentle mocking of Jimi.

His take on the Dead was hilarious. And Jimi "playing 'Purple Haze' to a couple of cows and some trash" haha.

If all they were going to use in the Woodstock film was "Bad Moon Rising," I can see why he said no; "Keep On Chooglin'" would've been nearly as classic a moment in that movie as Sly or the Who.

i like the marc maron interview b/c it's nice to hear john fogerty talking for two hours but...

INTERVIEWERS. stop interrupting your guests and finishing their sentences. this maron guy sounds like a dullard, but like I said it's till great to hear JF.

YEAH? YEAH? YEAH? YEAH?

(tbf, he stops that about 1/3rd of the way into it)

Who hates Fogerty's singing voice? I can understand hating, say, Bruce, but Fogerty? That's like hating the fifth face on Mt. Rushmore.

Early CCR appreciation:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Isd5LjM5e24

Who hates Fogerty's singing voice? I can understand hating, say, Bruce, but Fogerty? That's like hating the fifth face on Mt. Rushmore.

I can perfectly well understand it (I don't hate it btw)

Do people hate it for being ... too good? Too awesome?

Yeah, I don't get it. Robert Plant? Sure. Bruce? Say it again. But Fogerty? I wonder what singers the Fogerty haters like to listen to?

i think they hate it b/c it sounds like an exaggerated affectation of various southern singing accents. which is true!

maybe they hear some minstrelsy in it, or maybe they just think he's trying too hard

i've even felt this way sometimes (not for a very long time though)

so i understand it

it's all about the SONGS though, innit

And see, I can't imagine those songs without that voice. Trying to hard, bah ... trying too hard is a b.s. line when you get results, dammit.

just curious, does he say "toinin" and "boinin" in interviews too?

That's like hating the fifth face on Mt. Rushmore.

Actually, it's pretty easy to find reasons to hate most US presidents too

i mean shit if they did a vote today for 5th face on rushmore reagan might get it

i would have said Gerald Ford

Polk, the Dark Horse candidate.

I meant that symbolically. I'm not even sure I can name the other four faces. John, Paul, George and ... Jefferson?

http://images.45cat.com/rolf-harris-ringo-for-president-columbia-2.jpg

polk would make sense considering the vague theme/motivation for picking those four presidents

bill murray on mt rushmore would be kinda awesome

http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/1fa3ed/i_am_john_fogerty_singer_songwriter_and_former/

That AMA was really informative and he gave a lot of perspective into how/why he wrote certain songs back in the day. Even goes into the whole lawsuit thing. Probably the best AMA from a musician on Reddit. Good job.

lol at "Only on reddit would a person named SaggyBigNutz get a thoughtful and clever response."

nice lowman pauling/ five royales shot-out in his AMA

prepare for the awesome:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mUJieUDf0RU

on woodstock: "Everyone had a great time and I followed the Grateful Dead, who put half a million people to sleep. "

LOL

btw i love this song (from his 1975 solo album, on which he played all the parts) but is it just me or are there a few seconds of musical chaos at :15 or :16? like the overdubs got a little fucked up/out of synch?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGR1cCIFKvg

"I want to grow up and be Brad Paisley." - John Fogerty

Accidental Chooglist

Oh, man!

Down on the Corner, believe it or not, was kind of inspired by seeing an advertisement in the paper one day. It was an ad from Disney that said in great big letters "Winnie the Poo." Something in my brain said "Winnie the Poo and the Poo Boys." Obviously that was close to "Willy and the Poor Boys." As I began to develop this idea it turned into music in that weird mystical almost uncontrollable way music comes to songwriters. Winnie the Poo is still my favorite character who I've shared with my daughter Kelsy since the day she was born, tho she's growing out of it. But I'm not.

waslikeyouropinion 658 points 6 hours ago

Hello, I'm a big fan. Thanks for doing this!
What exactly does "chooglin" mean?

johnfogertyJohn Fogerty947 points 6 hours ago
It was just a fun expression that I made up. It wasn't a real word but I wanted to have a word that sounded kind of like "rockin," "shufflin," "boogie," kind of rock n roll.

GaryOster 537 points 6 hours ago
I can finally sleep.

I interviewed Fogerty last week and thought it might be of interest, although I'm sure he covered some of the same points on Maron (which I haven't heard yet).

http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2013/may/29/john-fogerty-creedence-clearwater-interview

Great interview. Love this:

To me it was a competition. You'd have the Grateful Dead and Jefferson Airplane talking like: 'We don't want to be successful, maaaaan.'" He dismissively mimes a toke. "For one thing I wasn't sure I believed them and for another, why would I go to all this trouble and only sell one record to my mom? I wasn't embarrassed that I was ambitious. We wanted to be the best we could be."

I saw John Fogerty for the first time Friday night. Fogerty joked about coming on at Woodstock at a delayed time of 2 am right after the Greatful Dead put everyone to sleep. The Friday gig was a mostly great show though I could do without the drum solos no matter how much some people like drummer Kenny Aronoff. Fogerty did the whole CCR Cosmos album plus more. Fogerty seemed so happy up there, and goofy at times. He doesn't do the rock star jumping as smoothly as others, but that was part of the charm. Audience for this kinda pricey show was a mix of fanatics, folks who knew the hits, rich folks who left early, and dragged along kids enjoying some songs while playing with their phones through others.

waslikeyouropinion 658 points 6 hours ago

Hello, I'm a big fan. Thanks for doing this!
What exactly does "chooglin" mean?

johnfogertyJohn Fogerty947 points 6 hours ago
It was just a fun expression that I made up. It wasn't a real word but I wanted to have a word that sounded kind of like "rockin," "shufflin," "boogie," kind of rock n roll.

GaryOster 537 points 6 hours ago
I can finally sleep.

Ah! There's a T-Rex song called "Chariot Choogle", so Bolan must have been referencing CCR.

Apropos of nothing in particular 'shoogle' is a Scots word for 'shake' (Shoogle, Rattle and Roll?) and 'shoogly' means 'shaky' hence the oft heard phrase 'his jacket is on a shoogly nail (or peg)' for someone in a precarious position. (In fact, online dictionary tells me 'to shoogle' can mean to 'to rock'!)

So...have I got a story for you.

https://metatalk.metafilter.com/13976/NOT-raining-on-florencehonest?#400785

Well, yeah.

Oh, that's beautiful...

Had forgotten that story I linked four years back there! Seems to be somewhat calmer now, hopefully:

https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/music/story/2023-10-05/john-fogerty-creedence-clearwater-revival-contract

Good piece and this detail stood out:

Creedence, anyway, has transitioned tremendously well into the streaming era; on Spotify, they have a higher number of monthly listeners than the Rolling Stones, Pink Floyd and Led Zeppelin.

That's pretty amazing. I actually thought their/his audience may have shrunk or at least remained smaller - his Radio City Hall show technically sold out but when I bought mine a month after they went on sale, it was maybe 2/3 unsold. Plant and especially the Stones sold out much more quickly.

Unlike those other guys, Fogerty has been touring pretty steadily for years (with a break for the pandemic, natch) and I imagine his setlists are locked down enough one could see him once and be done, mark him off the list etc.

Makes total sense to me. I chalk it down to the consistency and conciseness of their catalogue. They released so many amazing hits, most of which are under 3 minutes, between 1968 and 1970. The other bands have so much sprawl and no Chronicle. Plus there's the crossover appeal with country fans.

Interesting that CCR have two songs with over 1 billion streams ("Have You Ever Seen the Rain" and "Fortunate Son") and the other three bands have none. "Paint it Black" pretty close though.

Americans will always love to choogle

He still has it in him to write a good song every once in a while. Unfortunately, it usually take something really shitty to inspire him (though I suppose that was true with many of his best songs for CCR).

Always liked this one. Pretty fucking sad to hear it today.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ODrkRdwb3k

John Fogerty: Legacy - the Creedence Clearwater Revival years with a 60s era photo of John on the cover and a CCR greatest hits tracklist on the back. And under that, in the second to smallest font of any text on the entire cover: "John's Version." Sure enough these are re-recordings: "the idea was to sound closely like the original."

Why? Unlike Taylor from 2017-earlier this year, he has no beef with Concord/Fantasy, for several dacades he has controlled and thus has benefitted from the concomitant publishing, Saul Zaentz and all his henchmen are long vanquished or dead… Why do this?

1. Is it because. like say Richard thompson, he doesn't now or never did like the way they sounded, and now feels like he can do the songs justice?

2. Or is that new material he produces, not only in the public mind but his own, can never measure up to imperial period 1967-1970?

I heard the re-recorded versions inadvertently at a friend's two nights ago. Like Taylor's versions, the differences are subtle.