DJ Clever - "Troubled Waters"

Jungle is definitely one of those genres you can just hear TOO MUCH of and then it all turns to aural mush.

NEVER!!! (Or at least never for that beautiful period of time between late 93 to 95 where there are like a jillion amazing tracks.)

93-95 meant that no matter how fucked up the beats get, it's now expected (not that anybody bothers anymore for precisely that reason).

95-98 means that no matter how harsh and heavy the bass drops, it doesn't smack you in the nuts in quite the same way.

And 99-04 means that no matter what you choose to layer over the top of the 2step, whether it's brazilian or disco, it's just more 2step.

I dunno, i'd have difficulty seeing this mix as being the thing that revitalises jungle in the same way as cajmere revitalised house, to name just one example.

It doesn't feel like a dramatically new twist. It's more in the vein of Carl Craig:Belleville three - a more considered, and subtle take on the same formula, maybe with more depth, but not with a radically different approach...

Hmmmm...maybe, Alex. Are you?

troubled waters is also fucking great. and brett is a nice guy. the inperspective mix from the front cover of knowledge a few months back might be even better. i am sorry i missed them both in nyc last weekend.

yay dnb revival!!

p.p.s. it's sad this jungle revival has to coincide when i've basically admitted to myself that i don't have the time/energy/inclination to care about what's going on in uk pirate culture anymore.

If I am not to exhausted I definitely will, yes. I should probably buy the mix before then actually, but I'm barely making it through the CDs on my "Listen" pile as it is.

Jammin?

I wish there had been *more* nerd refinement in jungle actually. It was extant from maybe 94-97 but then seriously died in the ass. Post-techstep bam-bam d&b can't really be compared to Carl Craig at all - it's more like European hard techno if anything. Haven't heard Troubled Water yet but the descriptions make it sound a bit like a mixed version of Platinum Breakz 2 which was definitely one of the last moments of "nerd refinement" in mainstream d&b (although captain easychord may just be using "nerd" to mean "loner" - ie. not part of a broader scene - in this context).

Back in the early days it certainly wasn't just a case of ragga/hardstep vs nerds though. I think one of the potential problems with last year's ragga revival is that it implies this strict binary between "black" and "white" influences in jungle that I just don't think adequately explains and accounts for the spectrum of different approaches in that early stage. It has annoyed me a bit how a lot of people hold up one particular moment and style of d&b as the thing which needs to be reinstalled as the norm if the style is to move forward, whereas it would seem obvious to me that any new "style" as such would ideally be one which learns the lessons of *multiple* moments and styles of d&b eg. can we please not write the best techstep/neurofunk out of history? The fact that Troubled Water does apparently reference various different moments in jungle is the thing I'm probably most looking forward to hearing - hence the term "dilettante"?

That said, is Troubled Water really that varied (for some reason I hadn't gotten that impression and if it is I will definitely buy it sooner rather than later)?

Lexis is increasingly becoming a bit of a lost hero of mine - an artist who could both perfect late-era d&b's endless repetition model and imagine a way out of it that didn't just mean a revival of the past (he also knew that the real problem with d&b was its velocity - everything he does sounds so wonderfully slow, even when it's not).

I'm glad to hear this mix is Certificate 18-ish. I've always felt that the brand of rhythmically complex post-neurofunk that they specialise in half the time was like an alternate route D&B might have gone down if, say, Source Direct's "Call & Response" had been the monster tune of 97 instead of "Pipier". But they generally remove the Source Direct menace in favour of lush-but-ambivalent Hidden Agenda style atmospherics. As a result it's drum & bass that doesn't feel particularly tied to any era or moment in the scene's development - hence my suspicion that it's a style that's well placed to pick up the thread of beat science and run with it even now.

this pretty well describes a lot of troubled waters

and i guess this links back to the idea that there were loads of inputs, lots of possibilities. it was almost unimaginable given the strict genre guidelines we love and trust..

(also i miss that sound where the break seems to get stuck on an off-beat.)

Adam I will not tolerate such a thing! Would you like a cd of stuff? (ha ha you can give me grime!)

Have been listening to and enjoying this today, but reading through this thread I realise that I also have no idea what people are talking about in terms of 93-95 stuff etc etc. What should I be listening to?!

I guess this other 2004 thread is also relevant:

All-time BEST Drum n' Bass/Jungle Mix ??