Moments of greatness, but how can you say they're good?

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I'm thinking about a lot of the so-called geniuses of avant , experimental or indie/new school (or whatever the hell you want to call it) art form.

Irrelevant Rant----------------------------------------
In a record store like Kim's, how are these "genres" relevant at all when bands seem to be classified simply by a shut-in retard? For example, today I found Roky Erikson, Swans and Windsor For The Derby in "The Establishment". Windsor For The Derby right next to Neil Young. Make sense? Established? Then I found Boredoms in "Avant Rock" and Flux Informational Sciences in "Indie/New School" just below Diamanda Galas. Most of the Young God Records catalog is filed under "The Establishment" (yet they are all avant rock, for sure) but the really interesting thing is that the Young God Records Compilation sampler is found under "Experimental". Interesting! Jarboe from Swans on Young God is somehow Avant Rock, however, despite the fact that she is as old as the Swans and less avant garde than Flux Informational Sciences, for instance. That puts the Swans owned Young God Records into all of the available categories except Reggae, Techno and Psyche, for a label that essentially produces the same kinds of artists: evil, droning, avant rock.

ANYWAY, all this sifting through this-or-that which needs to be classified specially under something other than "rock" made me start thinking about all these supposed geniuses. Half of the cds I looked through today were utter shit. I knew most everything I came across and understood that somewhere someone had some album by some of these bands that thought this album in particular "solidified [band's] place in rock history as blah, blah, blah" when most any album has filler and most artist's catalog is speckled with failure.

Who are some bands/performers/artists/avant-indie-experimental-new school/rockers -- hell, even producers-- who you feel are just plain given too much credit? I don't want to give my opinion, actually, but I'm eager to hear yours.

Nude Spock, Saturday, 8 December 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

yours...

Nude Spock, Saturday, 8 December 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I think Trent Reznor is given way too much credit, but that's just because I can't stand his music.

Nigel Godrich is way, way overrated. Lots of reverb does not equal quality production. Unless you're Kramer.

electric sound of jim, Saturday, 8 December 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I'd like to point out that wherever Windsor for the Derby is filed at Kim's is probably a staff joke, given that Dan Matz (Windsor guy) works there...

Douglas, Saturday, 8 December 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

m.b.v., beefheart, radiohead and neptunes.

chaki, Sunday, 9 December 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Where can I start on the too much credit question. My reply would be far too long. Suffice to say that I find that most of the so-called experimental music around isn't that experimental or that enjoyable to listen too, which is the most important thing.

Only a tiny amount does both.

Julio Desouza, Sunday, 9 December 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Daniel Johnston--I guess he just hasn't clicked for me yet, but it's going to take an awful lot of persusasion to convince me to keep trying...

Clarke B., Sunday, 9 December 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I second Beefheart. Can anyone suggest a proper context to listen 'Trout Mask Replica' in, before I totally give up on it?

alex in montreal, Sunday, 9 December 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Johnston -- unless you're listening to Yip Jump Music you're not listening to him. Listen to the Yo La "Speeding Motorcycle" cover [not not not the mary lou lord one] to get the feel of the rhythms he uses, then go and listen to King Kong and feel yr. heart break.

Sterling Clover, Monday, 10 December 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Beefheart -- sing along and try to make his weird noises. It's fun!

Sterling Clover, Monday, 10 December 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

What bugs me is the breathless reviews I'll read for some obscure band or artist, esp those of the avant-variety, and then I get the album and either it's hopped-up blues or it's the same shitty noise + rat-a-tat-tat drumming that's been around since Cecil Taylor. I just can't believe that we were even listening to the same album. God bless harmolodics, but Ornette should be dragged out and shot for the amount of respect he brought to some guy who can't play jazz but decided that playing the blues off-key was "avant-garde." Why is it that the AACM and World Saxophone and all those guys play, essentially, off-key blues and then are considered vanguarde? Is it really that tough to shed your skin and truly devise a new language or push the envelope?

I mean, is it weird that some critic will gush about the "pop" conversion of Jim O'Rourke and talk about how great his pop instincts are when Elton John and Bill Joel, or, for chrissake, Phil Collins, farts better melodies and has better instinct than all of those jerks combined? ARRRRGHHH!! What is it with us and fashion?

Mickey Black Eyes, Monday, 10 December 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

God bless harmolodics, but Ornette should be dragged out and shot for the amount of respect he brought to some guy who can't play jazz but decided that playing the blues off-key was "avant-garde." Why is it that the AACM and World Saxophone and all those guys play, essentially, off-key blues and then are considered vanguarde? Is it really that tough to shed your skin and truly devise a new language or push the envelope?

You, sir, are an idiot.

hstencil, Monday, 10 December 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Ah, the quintessence of ILM blather rears its ugly head. Touche, indeed.

Mickey Black Eyes, Monday, 10 December 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)


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