Drugs And Music

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The hoary question of DRUGS has reared its illicit head in a couple of threads, so I'm going to ask this: has taking drugs helped you like, or understand, any music better? What music?

I'm not going to limit it to "illegal" drugs as otherwise we'd miss out on great Brian-Eno-discovery-of-ambient stories.

― Tom, Monday, 26 February 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

So I'll be the first in anwsering this somewhat thorny question and say yes of course they did. Esp. marihuana. For me it used to be a very important tool to listen to music, and you really are forced to sit and *listen* to the music. Aaah, all the intricate details that somehow manifest itself. LSD, same thing but different, best result: Butthole Surfers (unrecognizable under the influence). And then of course: E and rave. Actually E came along later and left earlier. Some other stuff, but these work the best with music, although these days I can't be arsed.

― Omar, Monday, 26 February 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Dope never did a thing for me musically. It made me laugh and then it made me paranoid, and that has been the sum total of my experiences with dope.

I've felt very strongly that the first times I tried ecstacy changed the way I listened to music. Not just dance music, but all music which takes advantage of texture. But I've recently had doubts, because my growth in appreciation has increased without taking the drug as well, so maybe my initial jump in appreciation was the result of an increased exposure to texture-based music that just happened to co-incide with my exposure to ecstacy.

― Tim, Monday, 26 February 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Well this is an interesting point - I'm interested in the way a drug experience can serve as a catalyst to 'getting' a type of music. For instance, I've taken acid twice. The second time I played music - I looped out of time two copies of a Bob Dylan album and let them overlap, and then later on a tape of John Adams/Steve Reich/Philip Glass pieces were put on. Though I've not taken the drug since my interest in minimalism dates pretty much from that point.

― Tom, Monday, 26 February 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Aside from a bit of the demon drink getting a hold of me -- and I can't recall specifically focusing on music while doing so -- drugs have never been consciously part of my experience. Someone might have slipped me something, but that apparently hasn't really happened. ;-) So my answer is more a non-answer, but I hold fast to the belief that people who insist a certain kind of music can *only* be enjoyed on drugs, or a certain song or whatever, are mistaking one kind of experience for the other, if only because I've enjoyed much such pieces while not being under the influence. And I rather challenge anybody to create a universal standard of quantifying enjoyment. ;-)

― Ned Raggett, Monday, 26 February 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I was wondering when this was going to come up. I guess it's a tribute to the I Love Music board that this is like the 300th thread, and not the first or second. To answer the question, yes, absolutely, I do think drugs have influenced how I hear music. Mostly weed. I swear, it's so cliche, but you can home in on various parts much easier w/ pot. I can, anyway. Though I don't think I ever need drugs to "get" a piece of music, they can make it more enjo

― Mark Richardson, Monday, 26 February 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

...enjoyable. I am using iE on a Mac, so I guess that's the problem. More later when I'm on another computer..

― Mark Richardson, Monday, 26 February 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Not really, unless you include tea, but then I've never tried any drugs or have any intention of doing so. Maybe I'm missing out. Who knows? I just have this image of drug taking as some horrible trendy thing, "oh look at me, I'm so crazy" sorta thing...plus I'm a hypochondriac.

― jel, Monday, 26 February 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Well E got me into dance music especially house...I once listened to Can's "Tago Mago" on acid and although I liked the album before that it did get me interested in other Krautrock stuff....Smoking dope and listening to Massive Attack helped me appreciate them more too...if someone tells me it "sounds great when yer stoned" I usually tend to give it a wide berth cos I dont want to go down that road eg. Phish, DMB....

― Michael Bourke, Monday, 26 February 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I was going to make a comment about ecstasy and music. The first time I had a good experience w/ ecstasy was also the first time I heard MbV's Loveless & I think I can trace my interest in drone music and music that depends heavily on sonic texture to that night. We listened to Loveless 5 or 6 times back to back, and I couldn't imagine anything else sounding that good (I still can't!) Much later I learned that Shields had been taking lots of E near the time of recording, which made so much sense to me, in terms of the kind of sounds he created. So Tim, to reference your post, I don't think it a coincidence that you discovered textured music during the same time you discovered E. There is something there. I'm sure I'll never take it again, and haven't done any heavier drugs now for quite some time, but I do have to admit that it opened something for me. Whether it would have happened anyway, I'll never know.

― Mark Richardson, Monday, 26 February 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Michael, i'm curious about 'Tago Mago'-on-acid (yeah, let's trade 'war-stories' ;) because the 2nd part of that album freaks me out when I'm straight, so on acid?...erm...freak-out or did it all makes sense? It's a bit boring telling it like this but I once listened to Can's 'Soon over Blablabla' on acid and at the end really had an epiphany ("I felt like my heart was touched by Christ" that sort a thing). Mark, I always suspected there was a big E influence on 'Loveless', well on some other thread i named it 'a perfect aural emulation of dropping E'. Very strange to learn Shields was really luved up.

― Omar, Tuesday, 27 February 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Allright Omar u got me I only listened to the first side hehehe...Stuff like "Aumugn" has me cowering behind the couch even when I'm not on drugs so I wasnt going to risk shitting myself...but a track like "Hallelujah" caved my head in allright..

― Michael Bourke, Tuesday, 27 February 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I once had to explain to a non-drug-taking entity how obvious it is when musicians use LSD. They're appreciation of "sound" exceeds melody to the point where "normal" people view it as crazy or chaotic. After quoting the lyrics to Sonic Youth's "The World Looks Red" especially, but several other Sonic Youth tunes, pointing out the utter dissonance on "Sonic Death" and the evol-ution of their breed of chimebell jangly guitar, as well as the completely LSD-drenched film effects of Sonic Youth's "The Year Punk Broke" (tracers, film burns, invert filter tricks, static, etc.) in which Thurston stares aimlessly into a disco ball, runs through a park holding a tree branch, swinging it side-to-side (obviously checking out the trails) speaking entire dialogues of "word salad" ("my... mind... is.. a... fine... gelatinous... ball... of pepper") that is so popular with acid-heads and schizophrenics and, among other things, examining her spirally-crazy Sonic Youth poster, she remained unconvinced that Sonic Youth ever did acid. To someone who has tripped, there are thousands of not-so-subtelties that make it quite obvious Sonic Youth went through an experimental stage with drugs. (They smoke hash in the video, for chissakes).

guess she thinks only hippies do acid. The similarities between Sonic Youth, Flaming Lips, Voivod, Mercury Rev and Butthole Surfers are obvious and at least 4 out of the 5 bands (if you WANT to discount Sonic Youth) were notorious LSD users, so why is it so ridiculous to conceive of Thurston Moore dropping acid? Seems more than likely he did. Compare Sonic Youth's noise to Hendrix. It's similar, but different (though not terribly so when you get right down to the squealing guitar dissonance).

I could go on and on forever on just Sonic Youth. There is so much evidence. However, it would kind of ruin their "art rock" vibe if they chalked up their greatest accomplishments to drug experimentation... they're not hippies, after all.

But, just this one example alone serves to show the power of drugs on a musician, pushing him to try new things. I take it for granted that most anything that sounds like contained, sculpted wild abandon and reaches new territory was influenced by drugs. Most people try drugs. Most musicians abuse drugs. See how the Beatles changed, Hendrix, and all that "first stage of rock n' roll" stuff was inevitably shot in new and exciting directions once the musicians smoked their first bowl or whatever.

That being said, I'm so bored with drugs it's ludicrous.

― , Tuesday, 27 February 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

And there I thought Thurston was just being an asshole in The Year Punk Broke, I certainly never acted so retarted when on drugs ;) Anyway, very interesting because I never viewed Sonic Youth as an acid group, while the evidence on "Daydream Nation" esp. 'Eric's Trip' is quite "damning". Same with Voivod (I have to check them out again), they even did an early Pink Floyd cover.

― Omar, Wednesday, 28 February 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

michael gira wrote the lyrics to "the world looks red." the lyrics to "eric's trip" were taken from the monologue of a character in an andy warhol film (_chelsea girls_?). sy openly answer questions re their drug use in foege's _confusion is next_. i don't have it on me but they certainly don't admit to being major acid users.

are we to presume that legions of avant-garde composers and free jazz artists (whose appreciation of sound beyond melody frequently exceeds thurston's) are all big acidheads as well?

― sundar subramanian, Wednesday, 28 February 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

wait. the similarities between sy and voivod are obvious?

― sundar subramanian, Wednesday, 28 February 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Sonic Youth are hippies. I mean, Ranaldo's a deadhead. That said, Kim's a yuppie.

― Otis Wheeler, Wednesday, 28 February 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

------- wait. the similarities between sy and voivod are obvious? -------

well in my mind they are. Anywayz, Michael Gira was a big acidhead so it still makes sense with that lyric. And whatever the literal source of the lyrics of 'Eric's Trip', "Daydream Nation" still sounds very psychedelic (in the end it's beside the point if "they were on acid"). What next? Butthole Surfers recorded "Locust Abortion Technician" while drinking herbal tea?

― Omar, Thursday, 1 March 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Re free jazz: Coltrane, anyway, took a lot of acid. He even recorded "Om" while he and the band were on it, supposedly. Free jazz ain't all about drugs, though, just an interesting tidbit. Now I'm going to keep writing more so that when my message gets cut off it's just junk

― Mark Richardson, Thursday, 1 March 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Hell yes, the similarities between SY and Voivod are obvious, sonically. If you play guitar at all you should notice a previously unknown style of inverted-chords and dual-harmonics-driven rock appears with these two bands. Compare "Dimension Hatross" to 'Sister', "Daydream Nation" or "Goo". Sonic Youth, particularly, influenced a whole slew of other bands to start making *sounds* like this. Entire songs not really in any particular key.

― , Thursday, 1 March 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Sonic Youth did acid. Get over it. Freeform jazz is quite a different thing, period. For more info on Voivod vs. Sonic Youth, see above. "The World Looks Red" is not the only odd lyriced song. Swans + Sonic Youth toured together and were friends. I know Gira's done acid, the later Swans material obviously reflects it (also, he's stated it), all the above are friendly with Genesis P. Orridge. The similarities in Swans music, say, "The Great Annihilator", sound a hell of a lot like a combination of "Evol" and "Daydream Nation" mucked up with a darker atmosphere. So, yeah... there you go. Believe whatever you want, I suppose, but it's pretty retarded to think Sonic Youth never did acid. My guess is that you never have or had very little experience with it, at least (possibly very negative or boring, even).

― , Thursday, 1 March 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I heard that "Om" was recorded during Coltrane's first and last trip. And come on, tons of artists are inspired by drugs - just ask Coleridge :)

― Jake Becker, Thursday, 1 March 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

The Coltrane case is interesting. I've read that he did acid pretty frequently after '65. But I always get the feeling that a lot of jazz- crits want to deny The Big Man was actually inspired by some hippie drug, or at least move it in a way that says "yeah he did it once and that record was a mistake". Sort of depends how you view his post-"A Love Supreme" period (and where you want to put the blame for "the noise": Shepp, Sanders or LSD). Then again Miles hated acid and pot and he was responsible for some of the most tripped-out music ever ("Bitches Brew" et al) So go figure.

― Omar, Friday, 2 March 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

dude.

i don't really care one way or the other whether sy use acid (well, maybe i do a bit for coco's sake). it's more this comment that i had issues with:

>I once had to explain to a non-drug-taking entity how obvious it is >when musicians use LSD. They're appreciation of "sound" exceeds >melody to the point where "normal" people view it as crazy or chaotic

the idea that appreciating sound beyond melody requires some sort of chemical alteration is what i disagreed with. all it requires is a willingness to question received musical responses. drugs may make this easier for someone not used to unconventional music but are certainly not essential to it.

i just mentioned the sources of the lyrics you cited because you seemed a little too ready to assume they were proof of drug use (yes i know they hung out with michael gira).

― sundar subramanian, Saturday, 3 March 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

three years pass...

I always thought that the idea

"You can hear MORE when you're stoned"

was just a cliche, but it turned out to be true. I've noticed
things when stoned that had eluded he dozens of times before.
Example, the minor-second keyboard parts in "Misty Mountain Hop,"
I knew there was something disturbing about the song, but I never
noticed those keyboard diads until I listened to it high.

― Squirrel_Police (Squirrel_Police), Wednesday, 14 April 2004 17:19 (twenty-one years ago)

Coke + Slayer = FASTEST BICYCLING HOME EVER

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Wednesday, 14 April 2004 17:28 (twenty-one years ago)

that sounds like a heart attack waiting to happen.

― cutty (mcutt), Wednesday, 14 April 2004 17:32 (twenty-one years ago)

Acid and the White Album: lotsa fun

― sexyDancer, Wednesday, 14 April 2004 17:39 (twenty-one years ago)

Anything that isn't lotsa fun on Acid has got problems. The only (semi) bad trip I've ever had was when I went to see Ozric Tentacles, who were so appalling that not even tripping off my face could redeem them. At the end of the gig (16 hours, 14 hour flute solo) when the lights came up I spotted a flat cap full of chunky puke on the floor in front of the mixing desk. It symbolised the evening.

― noodle vague (noodle vague), Wednesday, 14 April 2004 17:43 (twenty-one years ago)

Actually, Spacemen 3 and My Bloody Valentine don't really work for me while heavy tripping. On Ecstasy, sure, but I think Acid requires a certain musical understatedness or lyrical density. Like "Highway 61 Revisited" is perfect for Acid. If the music itself is too trippy it can get redundant.

― sexyDancer, Wednesday, 14 April 2004 17:53 (twenty-one years ago)

The most dangerous side effect of ecstacy is that it might make you like house & electronic.

― shookout (shookout), Wednesday, 14 April 2004 21:31 (twenty-one years ago)

living and breathing makes me like house

acid and weed definitely augment, or can alter effectively, the music experience.
coke alters how long and expansive an innocuous topic can become, like ILM/E times ten.
can't speak for heroin, but it's safe to say anything you feel on ecstacy at least is bullshit anyway (but enjoyment i'm sure is possible). with first two i feel like your true sensibility is still being factored into even this 'altering' you know

― duke rosario, Wednesday, 14 April 2004 21:45 (twenty-one years ago)

I guess house & the like is fine...if you like muzak for parties.

― shookout (shookout), Wednesday, 14 April 2004 22:07 (twenty-one years ago)

It all started going wrong with the invention of electricity, didn't it shookout?

― don, Wednesday, 14 April 2004 23:09 (twenty-one years ago)

eight months pass...

VOIVOD: "Cited as the influence by bands as polarly opposed as Pantera and [b]Sonic Youth[/b]"

Found by googling Sonic Youth Voivod and clicking the first link:
http://www.google.com/search?q=sonic+youth+voivod&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8

Personally, I've always thought they sounded the same. Funny that all these years later it is confirmed that Voivod influenced Sonic Youth and not the other way around, which for some reason I'd always expected. I guess Voivod kicks ass.

― Triple Ho, Wednesday, 29 December 2004 06:31 (twenty years ago)

VOIVOD: "Cited as the influence by bands as polarly opposed as Pantera andSonic Youth"

― Triple Ho, Wednesday, 29 December 2004 06:34 (twenty years ago)

Example, the minor-second keyboard parts in "Misty Mountain Hop,"
I knew there was something disturbing about the song, but I never
noticed those keyboard diads until I listened to it high.

What's a minor second?

― 57 7th (calstars), Wednesday, 29 December 2004 15:44 (twenty years ago)

It's a second where the difference in pitch is one semitone. C to Db, for instance, whereas C to D is a major second.

― W i l l (common_person), Wednesday, 29 December 2004 15:49 (twenty years ago)

Cocaine and Golden Years (the original) are fine bedfellows

― mentalist (mentalist), Thursday, 30 December 2004 00:57 (twenty years ago)

drugs suck.

― Mr. Snrub (Mr. Snrub), Thursday, 30 December 2004 01:25 (twenty years ago)

six years pass...

Music: the drug

http://www.latimes.com/health/boostershots/la-heb-music-dopamine-20110109,0,5591381.story

― Ned Raggett, Sunday, 9 January 2011 19:50 (fourteen years ago)

I have to leave a comment in this thread.

― the Sonic Youths of suck (Drugs A. Money), Sunday, 9 January 2011 21:02 (fourteen years ago)

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