whats the difference between southern bounce and crunk?

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is crunk just an outgrowth of southern bounce or should they all just be called 'dirty south' styles of hip hop?

― splooge (thesplooge), Thursday, 23 September 2004 23:57 (twenty-one years ago)

it's one big rainbow dude

― jess (dubplatestyle), Friday, 24 September 2004 00:01 (twenty-one years ago)

bass ---> bounce ---> crunk ---> THE FUTURE

― jess (dubplatestyle), Friday, 24 September 2004 00:01 (twenty-one years ago)

I only listen to intelligent crunk.

― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Friday, 24 September 2004 00:01 (twenty-one years ago)

consider them all moons orbiting a giant 808

― jess (dubplatestyle), Friday, 24 September 2004 00:02 (twenty-one years ago)

'crunk' isn't a real word.

'southern bounce' doesn't mean anything, but at least the words are real.

― Sasha (sgh), Friday, 24 September 2004 00:03 (twenty-one years ago)

"sasha" isn't a real word either according to websters

― jess (dubplatestyle), Friday, 24 September 2004 00:03 (twenty-one years ago)

But at least the letters are real.

― noodle vague (noodle vague), Friday, 24 September 2004 00:04 (twenty-one years ago)

RENAME YOURSELF A REAL NOUN DAMMIT

― jess (dubplatestyle), Friday, 24 September 2004 00:04 (twenty-one years ago)

3. crunk
Back in '95, Conan O'Brien and Andy Richter or coined it for use as an all-purpose curse that would skirt the tee-vee censors (ergo, instead of saying sh*t, you would say crunk)?

Ice T was also on that episode and even said, "Man, that's really crunked up right there!", which adds more credence to the idea that two of the whitest men in the universe invented this term.
Source: Stephen Brown, Jul 25, 2004

― astroblaster (astroblaster), Friday, 24 September 2004 00:24 (twenty-one years ago)

haha beautiful

― jess (dubplatestyle), Friday, 24 September 2004 00:24 (twenty-one years ago)

from www.urbandictionary.com's definitions of crunk

― astroblaster (astroblaster), Friday, 24 September 2004 00:26 (twenty-one years ago)

That is truly wondrous.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 24 September 2004 00:27 (twenty-one years ago)

hope for us all

― jess (dubplatestyle), Friday, 24 September 2004 00:27 (twenty-one years ago)

thread hijack: jess, recommend me some crunk i havent heard (i.e. something slightly obscure yet awesome)

― astroblaster (astroblaster), Friday, 24 September 2004 00:28 (twenty-one years ago)

if we can have punk and new wave, we can have crunk and miami bass!

― splooge (thesplooge), Friday, 24 September 2004 00:29 (twenty-one years ago)

http://www.mixtapeusa.com/liljoneabowe.html

(mixtape of teh year)

― jess (dubplatestyle), Friday, 24 September 2004 00:31 (twenty-one years ago)

is there any non lil jon crunk ?

― astroblaster (astroblaster), Friday, 24 September 2004 00:36 (twenty-one years ago)

any time you try to call anything non-lil jon crunk, a rap nerd kills a kitten

― jess (dubplatestyle), Friday, 24 September 2004 00:37 (twenty-one years ago)

WHAT?

― astroblaster (astroblaster), Friday, 24 September 2004 00:50 (twenty-one years ago)

I doesn't have to be Lil Jon but I think it has to sound like Lil Jon in order to be crunk. eg. a lot of David Banner's productions are crunk but a lot of them aren't.

― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Friday, 24 September 2004 01:15 (twenty-one years ago)

Can somebody give a serious answer, pretty please? Like, does bounce just refer to late 90s early 00s Cash Money/No Limit/ gangsta shit or does it bleed further back into the faster pure booty zone of Miami Bass? Or does bounce just = Miami Bass, only not from Miami? And have people started taking 'crunk' seriously as a genre name? Can it really be said that Lil Jon INVENTED a genre?

Or don't genre boundaries and semantics matter as much in non-rave-related music?

― Keith McD (Rob McD), Friday, 24 September 2004 01:20 (twenty-one years ago)

ah, but keith where does ukg end and grime begin? etc etc.

― jess (dubplatestyle), Friday, 24 September 2004 01:22 (twenty-one years ago)

"bounce for the juvenile" = 94, i think

― jess (dubplatestyle), Friday, 24 September 2004 01:23 (twenty-one years ago)

someone said bounce orig new orleans as dance music/no rap. when ~soulja slim's 14th birthday ppl were rapping over bounce beats. crunk's from atl? lil jon blew it up obv. miami bass from miami, be4 my time. jess diagramd it nicely. someone mspaint this man a timeline!!

― peter $//, Friday, 24 September 2004 01:24 (twenty-one years ago)

wht's bouce 4 the juvenile?

― peter $.., Friday, 24 September 2004 01:25 (twenty-one years ago)

his first single!

― jess (dubplatestyle), Friday, 24 September 2004 01:31 (twenty-one years ago)

or his first hit, anyway

― jess (dubplatestyle), Friday, 24 September 2004 01:32 (twenty-one years ago)

and the first song to "name" the genre for a more mass audience

― jess (dubplatestyle), Friday, 24 September 2004 01:32 (twenty-one years ago)

Yeah, Jess, what I meant is, how come people go on for hundreds of posts talking about the differences in hardcore continuum subgenres (hence rave-related, not just rave) but just make jokes on this thread. Er, not that I've got a problem with jokes or anything. To take a stab at answering my own question: there's a lot more obvious 'same' markers in dance music's (& grime's) 'changing same': tempo, bass sound etc. There has to be to make DJ mixes work. So it seems like it might be possible to pin down some definitions, but then there'll always be someone else arguing 'but what about...' and is it context or common usage or the sound itself that defines it etc etc blah blah. But with hiphop, there's just too damn much of it, and not many are just trying to hone one narrow style, so it's just impossible.

right???

― Keith McD (Rob McD), Friday, 24 September 2004 01:33 (twenty-one years ago)

And of course there's a lot more obvious 'changing' markers too

― Keith McD (Rob McD), Friday, 24 September 2004 01:34 (twenty-one years ago)

i think it's more because the history of southern rap is really unwritten at this point.

― jess (dubplatestyle), Friday, 24 September 2004 01:37 (twenty-one years ago)

even through the late 90s it was only grudging acceptance from the (unsurprisingly northern) rap media

― jess (dubplatestyle), Friday, 24 September 2004 01:37 (twenty-one years ago)

like i can obviously pinpoint tracks between, say, "oi" and "pulse x" that lead to grime, but i'm just not familiar enough with southern rap to do the same between bass and bounce.

― jess (dubplatestyle), Friday, 24 September 2004 01:39 (twenty-one years ago)

For what it's worth, I worked in a Dirty South CD store for 8 years, and am still no expert on all the variants, but in general, the lighter, poppier side of bounce predates that as bounce pre-dates crunk per se (that is, crunk that got tagged as crunk, though there are pre-tag examples, as always [see the schaffel thread for pre-schaffel shuffles, for example of the process]) Crunk is like punk, bounce is like rhyming in kid's games, cheerleader's taunts,smokin' in the HS restroom and trying to rap and forgetting the words and amking your own cos you got the right weed for that; songs popular at halftime brass band workouts (for a Dad version of this, see HIGH SCHOOL FUNK: "Scorpio" etc. by 70s HS bands, compiled by Motorcycle John, AKA DJ Shadow). Lots of booty, bounce, etc. clooections in the Used section dude, better that than asking us. Butt yeah, Miami bass is its big brother, recording-popularity-wise, and also crunk's realtive too. For something clever and catchy/straight ahead and rough, with Miami bass roots and subsequent listening too, check the new RIO BAILE FUNK FAVELA BOOTY BEATS (diffent language a prob on mebbe two-three tracks at most; plenty more instantly got me)(prob in Amazon by now, or soon).

― Don A, Friday, 24 September 2004 01:57 (twenty-one years ago)

"Can it really be said that Lil Jon INVENTED a genre?"

To some extent, yeah. It's a bit like if Timbaland's stuff had been given a discrete name in 97, before heaps of other producers hopped on board and started mimicking (and in the process mutating) his approach. At the moment only tracks that either are by Lil Jon or sound like they're by him seem to fit the "crunk" label, but I reckon the lines will be progressively blurred over the next few years as more producers try making crunk and get it "wrong" in interesting ways.

― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Friday, 24 September 2004 04:22 (twenty-one years ago)

I've heard crunk used to describe some pretty non-LJ stuff. I'd say 3-6 Mafia is definitely in the crunk continuum, not just an "influence" but just as vital to crunk's sound as LJ (see "tear da club up '97" etc) and you have to look at the rhyming aspect of crunk too in which case its like Pastor Troy etc.

This is complicated by the fact that Houston is also on the come-up and sounds nothing like ATL crunk, although "the south" is so lumped together by the history-writers, northern hip-hop press, etc.

My understanding was the New Orleans bounce wasn't hip-hop at all, initially, just a sort of dance music like house in chicago or club in baltimore, and that Mannie Fresh (who was actually working with Steve Silk Hurley from what I understand) melded his house training w/ Miami bounce and rap and blew up.

― djdee2005 (djdee2005), Friday, 24 September 2004 04:38 (twenty-one years ago)

And then there's stuff like David Banner's horn productions, pop stuff, stripped down, none of that buzzing synth stuff Lil Jon does - I'm thinking Rubberband Man, Tip Drill, etc. I'd consider that 'crunk' too.

― djdee2005 (djdee2005), Friday, 24 September 2004 04:38 (twenty-one years ago)

also - "ICM" = Intelligent Crunk Music you heard it here first.

― djdee2005 (djdee2005), Friday, 24 September 2004 04:40 (twenty-one years ago)

Yeah I consider "Rubberband Man" crunk too - but I think the horn and kid sounds in that act in the exact same way as the synths in a Lil Jon track so it's not so big a jump.

― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Friday, 24 September 2004 04:43 (twenty-one years ago)

There are lots of other producers w/ a crunk sound, 'crunk' is lil jon on the radio but there's lots of other stuff especially in memphis...lemme get someone to post who knows more about it than me...

― djdee2005 (djdee2005), Friday, 24 September 2004 04:53 (twenty-one years ago)

thanks for the set up

yeah I would include that whole north memphis sound into the crunk genre. memphis is home of the gangsta walk anyways, and I think you can trace crunk roots further back than say 3-6's tear the club up. Look at songs like "Get Buck" and also look at what Al Kapone was doing in 1994 with his Sinister Funk album. Then if you look at his recent stuff like on the Memphis Drama comp, "I'm That Nigga" is pretty damn crunked out. He does sound heavily influenced by westcoast(specificaly bay area) hiphop which is probably why E-40 signed him. Others producers who can pull off the crunk sound I would say dudes like Juicy J, Dj Paul and even Jelly but he's more bounce. I think what memphis brought to crunk was a darker atmosphere, to put it in the words of al kapone, "pure ghetto anger."

as for texas I do think their is crunk music coming out of there like powerhouze out of dallas comes to mind, thier song "We Ain't Soft" is pretty crunked out.

And according to ESG Street Military were one of the first to chant "get crunk." I don't know any exact details but esg claims it started in houston before it was ever in atlanta.

― sergdun, Friday, 24 September 2004 05:19 (twenty-one years ago)

You can catch David and SergDun daily on We Eat So Many Shrimp.

― djdee2005 (djdee2005), Friday, 24 September 2004 05:35 (twenty-one years ago)

oh I should have said al kapone and his crew are south memphis...so you can't really lump them all up with the hypnotized minds collective

― SergDun, Friday, 24 September 2004 05:39 (twenty-one years ago)

I should mention that Al Kapone's "Memphis Drama Vol 1" is one of the best crunk albums I've ever heard.

― djdee2005 (djdee2005), Friday, 24 September 2004 05:59 (twenty-one years ago)

http://www.alkatrazproductions.com/images/Memphis%20Drama.jpg
http://www.alkatrazproductions.com/images/Memphis%20drama%202.jpg

Yeah cop that shit.

― djdee2005 (djdee2005), Friday, 24 September 2004 06:15 (twenty-one years ago)

To get more specific about starting out, Mr. Threadstarter: you might try CRUNK CLASSICS on TVT, and MONSTER BOOTY,BOOTY JAMS,and/or BOOTY ESSENTIALS.Listen, compare, enjoy!

― Don A, Friday, 24 September 2004 13:54 (twenty-one years ago)

im sticking to dirty south.

― splooge (thesplooge), Friday, 24 September 2004 14:58 (twenty-one years ago)

When I think of bounce I mostly think about the tempos and the beat -- faster than most hip-hop, but slow enough to allow double-time playground-cadence rhyming.

When I think of crunk, I mostly think about the keyboard sounds and riffs.

― Jordan (Jordan), Friday, 24 September 2004 15:09 (twenty-one years ago)

Good point, Jordan. In a way, not only is crunk like punk, but like punk funk, and I wish some of the current punk funkers would listen "more" to crunk, and less to Gang of Four etc.

― don, Friday, 24 September 2004 16:00 (twenty-one years ago)

mannie fresh is an excellent guitar player.

― jess (dubplatestyle), Friday, 24 September 2004 20:16 (twenty-one years ago)

mannie fresh has been taking ginseng/swing a big ding-a-ling
He's got a medallion for his dick cuz his dick bling bling.

― djdee2005 (djdee2005), Friday, 24 September 2004 20:18 (twenty-one years ago)

see, i'd really like a big tymers track where one of the boasts is "i play the guitar well, bitch"

― jess (dubplatestyle), Friday, 24 September 2004 20:23 (twenty-one years ago)

"I been taking ginseng/when I play the jazz guitar i swing"

― djdee2005 (djdee2005), Friday, 24 September 2004 21:35 (twenty-one years ago)

ON THE MTV2 DIRTY STATES OF AMERICA LYRICIST LOUNGE DVD SPECIAL DAVID BANNER SAID CRUNK@ABOUT 150BPM. A LOT OF SOUTH/CRUNK HAS LIVE INSTRUMENTS LIKE GUITAR AND PIANO

― $CORPIUM!], Saturday, 25 September 2004 04:15 (twenty-one years ago)

"My guitar's like Blood, and Sonny Sharrock, you got ears like Fudd, I'm like 'Whassup Doc.' CAN WE ROCK? CAN YOU ROCK? LIKE THIS>" skronk guitar x crunk= skunk.

― Don A, Saturday, 25 September 2004 13:57 (twenty-one years ago)

Webster's 1913 Dictionary

Definition: \Crunk\ (kr[u^][ng]k), Crunkle \Crun"kle\
(kr[u^][ng]"k'l), v. i. [Cf. Icel. kr?nka to croak.]
To cry like a crane. [Obs.] ``The crane crunketh.'' --Withals
(1608).

― m. (mitchlnw), Saturday, 25 September 2004 20:41 (twenty-one years ago)

hark, the banner crunketh!

― m. (mitchlnw), Saturday, 25 September 2004 20:44 (twenty-one years ago)

hahahah

― peter $$, Saturday, 25 September 2004 22:05 (twenty-one years ago)

Lost Language of Crunk (by David Leavitt)

― Don, Sunday, 26 September 2004 01:52 (twenty-one years ago)

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