take a chill pill boys

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ok it really is a boring and obvious question (alas that`s the kinda gal i am) but there seem to be avid supporters of both bands around (the SLTS thread made for good reading) so it could get lively. nirvana vs joy division

obviously there are the real life similarities but musically (and lyrically) i think they`re pretty different. the nirvana fans i know who are familiar with joy division think its awful goth music, which doesn`t "rock hard enough". the one joy division fan i know doesn`t understand how anyone could be moved by nirvana. apart from myself i don`t know anyone who likes both. i`d be keen to hear people`s thoughts on the following points; are either band what could be described as a cannon band? are either band still in any way relevant? who do you find the more moving if indeed you find them moving at all? were either band innovative?

and whatever else occurs to you.

― emma, Saturday, 8 December 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

i love nirvanna because they took two thread s of rawk (ie pretty and noise) and melded them into this really innovative combo. I thought (think) jd is like the smiths w/o the sense of camp or humour. ( ie unlisentably morose)

― anthony, Saturday, 8 December 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

At one point I too thought JD unlistenably morose, unfortunately I made this decision rather hastily.Ive since changed my opinion on the matter, and am bgining to find some of their songs incredibly uplifting. i`m sure nirvana will go down in the american rock annuls as the more significant band but as far as I`m concerned JD (and I`m cheating a bit by including Hannett as a fifth member)are the more awe inspiring. Few 12 month recording careers have yielded such startling and satisfying results. So its easily joy division.

― paulshouldreallygotobednow, Saturday, 8 December 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I think they're both excellent rock groups who had dodgy moments but also had many sublime moments. I would rate "Transmission" and "Heart Shaped Box" as high as each other, and that's pretty darn high. I'd say both are as relevant as they've ever been, and still among the best at what they did.

― electric sound of jim, Sunday, 9 December 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Can I join in as someone who doesn't particularly see what the fuss is about with either? They're both OK, but aside from the obvious contextual things (ie; dead singers that people seriously latch onto and idolise) I can't really understand why anyone would claim to 'love' either band.

― Nick Southall, Sunday, 9 December 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I never thought of either band as being particularly morbid, emotional etc., I just thought 'Unknown Pleasures' and 'In Utero' kicked fuckin' ass. Rawk on!

― dave q, Sunday, 9 December 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I don't think I've ever listened to Joy Division's LP's proper, but their music has always struck me as very much of its time. Ian Curtis' voice must be an acquired taste. I'd rather listen to New Order. Or Nirvana, who've made two of the greatest rock albums ever.

― JoB, Sunday, 9 December 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Nirvana I enjoy, Joy Division I love.

― Ned Raggett, Sunday, 9 December 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I love both.

― DavidM, Sunday, 9 December 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Joy Division's music has a very epic, timeless quality to it, whereas Nirvana's seems very rooted in one particular age. By no means am I knocking Nirvana's music, but it doesn't have the grandeur of Joy Division's. To me, anyway. Also, Ian didn't sing crap couplets like "a mosquito/my libido..."

― Alex in NYC, Sunday, 9 December 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Joy Division > Nirvana. Look, maths!

― DG, Sunday, 9 December 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

well i`m someone that got into joy div only recently, and well they`re pretty fucking ace. despite the occasional bit of stylistic fridity(after all not exactly the most versatile of players) they`ve created music that really has stood the test of time. nirvana i liked a lot for awhile, but i went off them, and i started to find music that i perceived as "angsty" rather distasteful, especially those fucking "therapy-speak" lyrics. the angst element doesn`t really bother me with jd, partly cos there doesn`t seem to be that typical focus on self pity, which i find so off putting. either way both great bands and obviuosly influential. for me though jd are that bit more special.

― eve, Sunday, 9 December 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Joy Division ripped off Iggy and The Stooges and The Velvet Underground.

Nirvana Ripped of the Pixies.

The Pixies Sucked.

Joy Division was on Factory Records.

Nirvana was on Subpop and DGC.

Subpop sucks.

Ian Curtis killed himself after watching a werner herzog film, and listening to Live Metallic K.O.

Who give a shit about what kurt cobain was listening to...

I think the choice is clear

Joy Division 3 Nivana 0

You make the call.

― Michael Taylor, Sunday, 9 December 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Both brilliant. Nirvana unfortunately sound a little dated now, which is the problem when you have the position of 'spokesman for a generation' foisted upon you. They are pretty different, but I understand perfectly why the comparison is made. Joy Division have a dark, claustrophic edge to them, in comparison to Nirvana's rather, er, expressive expulsion of rage.

I don't think that there have really been many pretenders to the throne, attempts at being the new Joy Division, whereas Nirvana's music spawned legion. Perhaps because it appears (and probably is) easier to replicate, a three chord riff and a lot of screaming? Sadly, they were all shit and 'grunge' is one of the worst scenes in the history of 'stool-rock'. I guess Nirvana were kind of going back into punk, where Joy Division were coming out of it.

I once had a Nirvana T-shirt for every day of the week. I had a home- made Joy Division T-shirt (tippex on a black T cut up at the bottom, aaargh) and wrote the words to Transmission on the back of my jacket. Both inspired hideous fashion faux-pas, then.

Joy Division are better.

― emil.y, Monday, 10 December 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I forgot to mention- there are probably fewer 'new Joy Division's because everyone says they sound more like The Smiths. Marion, of course, liked to big up JD, but they just sounded like Kingmaker. Oh well.

― emil.y, Monday, 10 December 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I own one taped copy of Nevermind an no other Nirvina. I have listened to it twice at most, ever. I own most of the JD catalog & listen to it often. Since my taste is generally contrarian, Nirvina is probably the better band for most foax.

― Sterling Clover, Monday, 10 December 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

The answers are clear:

Nirvana: Dave Grohl was a member of the DC Hardcore scene back in the heyday. (plus 10 points) Kurt Cobain married Courtney Love (minus 400 points) Krist Novoselic threw a guitar on himself (plus 20 points) NIRVANA was the beginning of the end of that specific music scene (plus 50 points, minus 50 points). Joy Division: Ian Curtis danced like no other (plus 10 points) New Order was birthed from this band (plus 50 points)

So i suppose Joy Division wins.

― Gage-o, Monday, 10 December 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Nirvana lyrics = fierce & ambiguous, Joy Division lyrics = literal- minded & overwrought. Did Joy Division ever display the slightest sense of humor or are my memories of a total straight-no-chaser gloom vibe correct? Nirvana didn't take themselves seriously enough, it's always best to err in that direction...
And let me toss in a Courtney Love remark: she's brilliant.

― daria gray, Monday, 10 December 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Ian Curtis killed himself after watching a Herzog film? If it was that godawful Nosferatu remake, it all makes sense to me now!
Seriously, what was it?

― daria gray, Monday, 10 December 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

it was DREHBÜCHER III: STROSZEK, NOSFERATU (1979) (full title from a< href="http://www.wernerherzog.com/">wernerherzog.com

Joy Division easy best. it's a better score in scrabble too.

― Alan Trewartha, Tuesday, 11 December 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

arse

― Alan Trewartha, Tuesday, 11 December 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

four years pass...

I love Nirvana and Joy Division. I think they are both two of the greatest bands I have ever listened to or heard of. Alot of the facts people posted here were wrong b/c they have not really looked into both bands enough to know what they were talking about. While I respect a few comments on this page I feel like most of you either need to give Nirvana or Joy Division a better listen or just don't pretend like you know what you're talking about. You just sound dumb. I own almost the full catalog for each band with the exception a few rarities and both have had different highs and lows. I don't really feel like you can judge bands as complex as these unless you have listened to everything from Bleach to In Utero to Unplugged in NY to Warsaw to Substance to Closer

― Stephen Plail (the_exploding_heads), Friday, 15 September 2006 18:58 (nineteen years ago)

I know I sound very pretentious, but I love both of these bands with a passion.

― Stephen Plail (the_exploding_heads), Friday, 15 September 2006 19:00 (nineteen years ago)

arse

-- Alan Trewartha (alantrewarth...) (webmail), December 11th, 2001 1:00 AM.

― struttin' with some barbecue (jimnaseum), Friday, 15 September 2006 19:06 (nineteen years ago)

I know I sound very pretentious, but I love both of these bands with a passion.
I know I sound very pretentious, but I love both of these bands with a passion.
I know I sound very pretentious, but I love both of these bands with a passion.
I know I sound very pretentious, but I love both of these bands with a passion.
I know I sound very pretentious, but I love both of these bands with a passion.
I know I sound very pretentious, but I love both of these bands with a passion.
I know I sound very pretentious, but I love both of these bands with a passion.
I know I sound very pretentious, but I love both of these bands with a passion.
I know I sound very pretentious, but I love both of these bands with a passion.
I know I sound very pretentious, but I love both of these bands with a passion.

― Space Gourmand (Haberdager), Friday, 15 September 2006 19:16 (nineteen years ago)

Ian Curtis killed himself after watching a werner herzog film, and listening to Live Metallic K.O.

Who give a shit about what kurt cobain was listening to...

R.E.M. "Automatic For The People", while watching MTV with the sound off, according to Heavier Tham Heaven.

― Marmot (marmotwolof), Friday, 15 September 2006 19:46 (nineteen years ago)

Than*

― Marmot (marmotwolof), Friday, 15 September 2006 19:47 (nineteen years ago)

take a chill pill boys!

― grady (grady), Friday, 15 September 2006 20:30 (nineteen years ago)

Joy Division was all right but the lead singer was so shitty. He made every song sound the same. In contrast, Cobain was a fantastic lead vocalist.

― Squirrel_Police (Squirrel_Police), Friday, 15 September 2006 20:37 (nineteen years ago)

Cobain did exactly the same thing!

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Friday, 15 September 2006 20:46 (nineteen years ago)

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