why did so many prog rock bands thrive during the New Wave boom?

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I'm thinking of course of Genesis, Yes, Peter Gabriel, Asia, Rush, even King Crimson/Robert Fripp and the like, all of whom adapted to early '80s trends really well.

Why/how did this happen?

― Josh in Chicago (Josh in Chicago), Thursday, 30 September 2004 21:43 (twenty-one years ago)

good stylists.

― grindore, Thursday, 30 September 2004 21:44 (twenty-one years ago)

I think you answered your question.

― Andy K (Andy K), Thursday, 30 September 2004 21:44 (twenty-one years ago)

if you want an informed answer to this, ask the citizens of:

Progressive Ears
http://www.progressiveears.com

― DJ Martian (djmartian), Thursday, 30 September 2004 21:45 (twenty-one years ago)

ILMer Tim Ellison touches on the question here:

http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0438/ellison.php

― chuck, Thursday, 30 September 2004 21:48 (twenty-one years ago)

re: progressiveears.com... i never thought of Larval as prog rock, but now that i think about it...

― ken taylrr (ken taylrr), Thursday, 30 September 2004 21:49 (twenty-one years ago)

Chuck, I was prepared to laud you for your amazing memory, but that piece is shockingly current. What a coincidence.

― Josh in Chicago (Josh in Chicago), Thursday, 30 September 2004 21:50 (twenty-one years ago)

why did so many rap bands flourish during the electroclash boom?

― Professor Challenger (ex machina), Thursday, 30 September 2004 21:52 (twenty-one years ago)

Oh, and x-post, per adaptation. I would have thought that the proggers, with their complex arrangements and neo-classical filigrees would have been extremely hard to adapt to post-punk New Wave, especially considering punk and new wave grew partly out of a response to prog.

― Josh in Chicago (Josh in Chicago), Thursday, 30 September 2004 21:53 (twenty-one years ago)

Wait, Josh, so are you saying that M piece inspired your question in the first place? I'm confused.

― chuck, Thursday, 30 September 2004 21:53 (twenty-one years ago)

>punk and new wave grew partly out of a response to prog.<

This is largely a myth, though. Especially the new wave part of it. But I mean,even Johnny Rotten was a huge Van Der Graaf Generator fan, right?

― chuck, Thursday, 30 September 2004 21:55 (twenty-one years ago)

Anyway, every one of the bands you mention at the top of this thread changed their sound to accomodate new wave -- most of them seemed really inspired by, say, the Police and Devo and disco and Gary Numan. Which doesn't seem weird to me at all; the Police and Devo and disco and Gary Numan were all probably inspired by prog in the first place. (And then you had people like Roxy Music, bridging the gap.)

― chuck, Thursday, 30 September 2004 21:58 (twenty-one years ago)

Plus, you left out Bill Nelson, from Be Bop Deluxe. Not to mention Queen, and Robert Wyatt, and maybe even Pink Floyd (or at least Nick Mason circa *Fictitious Sports,* if I remember right - didn't he also do some totally new wavey song called "Tennis," with Carla Bley and Chris Rea or somebody? Or am I totally mixed up?). Among other people, I'm sure.

― chuck, Thursday, 30 September 2004 22:02 (twenty-one years ago)

Rush were inspired by Ultravox

― DJ Martian (djmartian), Thursday, 30 September 2004 22:04 (twenty-one years ago)

And I mean, if you think of the Tubes or Sparks or Mirrors or Styrenes or MX-80 Sound as the first new wave band (which you probably should), new wave probably = punk + prog in the first place, right?

― chuck, Thursday, 30 September 2004 22:04 (twenty-one years ago)

Another great crossover: Camel, "Remote Romance"

And Golden Earring, obviously.

― chuck, Thursday, 30 September 2004 22:23 (twenty-one years ago)

also, duh, styx "too much time on my hands" and "mr. roboto" plus tommy shaw's awesome solo single "girls with guns"

― chuck, Thursday, 30 September 2004 22:32 (twenty-one years ago)

Rush were inspired by Ultravox

Rush 80s era were hugely influenced by the Police.

― M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Thursday, 30 September 2004 22:46 (twenty-one years ago)

Stewart Copeland was in Curved Air before the Police.

― todd (todd), Thursday, 30 September 2004 22:58 (twenty-one years ago)

was Andy Sumners in Tomorrow (My White Bicycle from the Nuggets box) he's in some flouncy psych band on nuggets II....

― M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Thursday, 30 September 2004 23:16 (twenty-one years ago)

Not to mention Queen, and Robert Wyatt, and maybe even Pink Floyd (or at least Nick Mason circa *Fictitious Sports,* if I remember right - didn't he also do some totally new wavey song called "Tennis," with Carla Bley and Chris Rea or somebody? Or am I totally mixed up?).

"Tennis" is Chris Rea. Fictitious Sports is Nick Mason, but it's really Carla Bley's record (she wrote and arranged it, and her musicians play on it). Robert Wyatt is the vocalist on Fictitious Sports. Good record; I've got it on my iPod right now.

― pfeffernuesse (Jody Beth Rosen), Thursday, 30 September 2004 23:32 (twenty-one years ago)

Interesting that Renaissance, IMO the one British prog rock band with the greatest likelihood of success for adapting to the early 80s new wave ethos, failed so badly in the attempt.

― Joe (Joe), Friday, 1 October 2004 01:11 (twenty-one years ago)

Did Rush actually mention Ultravox in particular? (Ultravox did "Dancing With Tears In My Eyes", right?)

Kraftwerk would seem to be another huge bridging factor. I'm surprised they haven't come up yet.

Prog was pretty significant in bringing synths into, well, 'white' pop so it kind of makes sense that there would be an affinity with new wave there as well.

― sundar subramanian (sundar), Friday, 1 October 2004 01:33 (twenty-one years ago)

It actually seems pretty logical to me that a pop artist would want to keep up with and draw on whatever trends or new developments come up in the field. Jazz artists and classical composers do it all the time. Particularly if they are trained or skilled musicians, it makes sense that they should be pretty capable of it.

― sundar subramanian (sundar), Friday, 1 October 2004 01:38 (twenty-one years ago)

Andy Summers was in a psych band called Dantalion's Chariot and later in Eric Burdon and the Animals.

Another interesting British crossover is the Korgis, who were formed by members of a UK '70s folk rock group called Stackridge. I've never heard Stackridge, but there were obvious prog/folk-rock crossovers in England in the '70s (like, say, Strawbs).

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Friday, 1 October 2004 04:00 (twenty-one years ago)

Andy Summers was also in Soft Machine w/ Ayers, Wyatt and Ratledge for a brief period.

― NickB (NickB), Friday, 1 October 2004 04:42 (twenty-one years ago)

Hasn't Andy Summers pretty much been a fusion artist since the Police?

― sundar subramanian (sundar), Friday, 1 October 2004 04:48 (twenty-one years ago)

most of them seemed really inspired by, say, the Police

Absolutely 1000% OTM

― Jedermann sein eigener Fussball (Dada), Friday, 1 October 2004 08:29 (twenty-one years ago)

Knowledge and mastery of the technologies of that time like synths, early midi and samplers probably didn't hurt. They were already using synths and advanced production techniques before new wave happened. These prog bands also had early access to the really expensive early samplers like the Synclavier or the Fairlight.

― earlnash, Friday, 1 October 2004 09:29 (twenty-one years ago)

Trevor Horn was a progger and a new-waver simultaneously really.

**new wave probably = punk + prog in the first place, right?**

That definition doesn't really stand up, at least from a UK perspective. Here, I guess New Wave was a catch-all term for music with punky attitude, but with the rough edges filed off. That could be by a synthy/prog element coming in, or by heightening the tunefulness and melodic elements/showing the lineage to trad songcraft. Examples of the latter would be The Motors, early Joe Jackson or maybe XTC. Then you've got acts like Dr.Feelgood, Graham Parker etc who were tagged new wave more than they were called pub rock. Boomtown Rats were archetypally new wave.

― Dr. C (Dr. C), Friday, 1 October 2004 10:07 (twenty-one years ago)

there was an interview with rush, in "Sounds" aroundabout 1984/85 IIRC, where they specifically mentioned Ultravox as an influence. I suppose "Signals" does have some of the machine pulse feel of Midge Ure era Ultravox.

It was Steve Howe from Yes who was in Tomorrow (as well as "Twink" Adler from the Pink Fairies, and Keith West, of "Teenage Opera" "Fame") Their album is great, a semi-lost pop-psych classic.

I think some of these bands (specifically fripp/crimson, gabriel and rush) thrived during new wave, because "progressive" was to them something more than just a music style. They had/have a kind of mindset that is looking out for new elements to weave into their music, which I find really admirable and thrilling if done well, I must admit.

― Pashmina (Pashmina), Friday, 1 October 2004 11:43 (twenty-one years ago)

About 6 years ago I visited the British Library/ National Sound Archive, browsing old copies of Melody Maker circa 1982/ 83 i remember Rush mentioned Ultravox as an influence.

― DJ Martian (djmartian), Friday, 1 October 2004 12:18 (twenty-one years ago)

Distant x-post to Chuck: no, I meant I asked the question without having seen the M piece, and thought it funny that such a prominent piece tackled the same subject so recently, independent of my sub-conscious. My "what a coincidence" was totally sincere.

― Josh in Chicago (Josh in Chicago), Friday, 1 October 2004 12:54 (twenty-one years ago)

Many other x-posts: I agree that a familiarity with new technology, especially synths, helped the prog acts. But I'm not sure how many of them adapted to new trends after all, as opposed to completely reinventing themselves. After all, the Yes and Rush and Genesis of the early '80s was totally different in virtually every regard from the Yes and Rush and Genesis of just five years earlier. When I think adaptation, I think of, I dunno, Jackson Browne, Rod Stewart, Robert Plant, or Springsteen incorporating synths and more streamlined arrangements. Though only Plant and Springsteen hail from a proggy background.

I do very much agree that the Police played a massive role in the prog to pop transition, maybe not surprising given that each of the three members come from a prog/fusion background. And new wave era Rush and Yes, at least, very much sound like the Police at times.

― Josh in Chicago (Josh in Chicago), Friday, 1 October 2004 13:43 (twenty-one years ago)

Simon Reynolds has written a bit about this, I know, but surely the whole punk/prog schism is a bit of a myth. A whole strain of post-punk is basically prog-punk -- Wire, The Fall, 23 Skidoo, early Scritti, PiL, Gang Of Four, Jah Wobble, Cab Vol, ATV, Adam And The Ants, all that No Wave stuff, etc. You can certainly hear elements of Henry Cow, Van Der Graf Generator and Soft Machine in a lot of late 70s/early 80s music that emerged from 'punk'.

Prog often expanded its worldview by incorporating elements from folk rock, twiddly jazz fusion and Wagnerian symphonic music; post-punk expanded its horizons in the same way but instead invoked a different range of influences -- dub, funk, freeform jazz, African, Latin, hip hop, gamelan, etc.

BTW Green was obsessed with Henry Cow and Robert Wyatt (even modelled his voice on him); Mark E Smith, John Lydon, Phil Oakey etc all loved Peter Hammill; Mark Perry and Keith Levine were both big prog fans (didn't Levine used to roadie for ELP or something?). And, while Johnny Rotten apparently used to wear a 'I Hate Pink Floyd' T-shirt -- why did he have a Pink Floyd T-shirt in the first place?

― john lewis (johnnylewis), Friday, 1 October 2004 14:14 (twenty-one years ago)

which post-punk was influenced by gamelan?

― Professor Challenger (ex machina), Friday, 1 October 2004 14:23 (twenty-one years ago)

>only Plant and Springsteen hail from a proggy background.<

Springsteen, really?? I never thought of that, or I never knew it -- do you just mean, like, the proto-Meat Loaf post-Richard Wagner operatic bombast of *Born to Run*? Or something more than that??

― chuck, Friday, 1 October 2004 14:28 (twenty-one years ago)

levene used to roadie for steve howe iirc.

― Pashmina (Pashmina), Friday, 1 October 2004 14:29 (twenty-one years ago)

>which post-punk was influenced by gamelan? <

Throbbing Gristle, maybe? Or was that just their album cover? (Oh wait, that was exotica, not gamelan, right? Never mind.)

I'm sure David Byrne listened to some gamelan sometimes, though. At least when he was visiting Brian Eno's house.

― chuck, Friday, 1 October 2004 14:30 (twenty-one years ago)

which post-punk was influenced by gamelan?

23 Skidoo

― DJ Martian (djmartian), Friday, 1 October 2004 14:40 (twenty-one years ago)

which post-punk was influenced by gamelan

23 Skidoo - The Culling Is Coming obviously

― Jedermann sein eigener Fussball (Dada), Friday, 1 October 2004 14:42 (twenty-one years ago)

Gah! Beat me to it sirrah!

― Jedermann sein eigener Fussball (Dada), Friday, 1 October 2004 14:42 (twenty-one years ago)

...and The Residents, tho they're technically pre-punk

― Didoismus (Dada), Friday, 1 October 2004 14:43 (twenty-one years ago)

The Bruce Springsteen Band, post-Steelmill but pre-E. St. Band, was totally a jam-fest Santanta noodle rock extravaganza. But his '70s albums, up through "Darkness," of course all feature long suites with several tempo and time signature changes. Soul-prog? As prog as the Who, at least. Anyway, "Dancing in the Dark," his biggest hit, is virtually synth-pop. Emo-synth pop, mabye. Proto Postal Service!

― Josh in Chicago (Josh in Chicago), Friday, 1 October 2004 15:12 (twenty-one years ago)

Not being pedantic, btw. Just showing how much Springsteen changed over just ten years.

― Josh in Chicago (Josh in Chicago), Friday, 1 October 2004 15:21 (twenty-one years ago)

23 Skidoo - Urban Gamelan, more obviously :)

― todd (todd), Friday, 1 October 2004 15:28 (twenty-one years ago)

Interesting how in the UK at least, two of the biggest selling people ca. 1978 were Kate Bush and Toyah, who both seem to be a feminised version of the sort of theatrical nonsense that the likes of Peter Gabriel were pursuing five years before. What's going on there? Obviously both have prog connections - Bush at the time w/ Dave Gilmour, Toyah later marrying Robert Fripp. Were there similar figures in the US or Canada?

― NickB (NickB), Friday, 1 October 2004 15:30 (twenty-one years ago)

Actually Toyah was later wasn't she? I think she peaked in about 1980.

― NickB (NickB), Friday, 1 October 2004 15:42 (twenty-one years ago)

the Yes and Rush and Genesis of the early '80s was totally different in virtually every regard from the Yes and Rush and Genesis of just five years earlier

This may be true of Genesis but I don't think it's really the case with Rush. It seems to me that their fundamental qualities remained constant from the 70s to the 80s - mixing guitar rock with electronics, larger-scale compositional ambitions ("Natural Science" is still a 'suite' in 3 movements; side 2 of Signals), harmonic and rhythmic complexity, a jerky, angular, mechanical rhythmic quality, fanfare-like bombastic riffs with tidy solos, cross-rhythmic playing, Geddy's voice singing over-literal hyper-individualistic lyrics - but that they became a bit more efficient at doing it, using new technology and adding some new influences. If anything, their playing probably became more intricate and virtuosic, they just did it in a little less time. There also seem to be more elements of Pink Floyd-y ambience and jazz-rock fusion in the 80s stuff.

I don't know 80s Yes very well. "Owner Of a Lonely Heart" sounds like it may be more influenced by Michael Jackson than by the Police or Gary Numan.

― sundar subramanian (sundar), Friday, 1 October 2004 16:49 (twenty-one years ago)

The Rush of "212" and the Rush of "Moving Pictures" - let alone "Signals" - are pretty different, save the unifying force of Geddy Lee's shriek. Peart plays with more economy, and Lifeson, while still capable of great leads, starts to favor very Andy Summers'y washes of treated guitar. They very fact that Rush started to squeeze all their playing into more concentrated bursts and fewer long suites shows that stylistic change was afoot. Then again, I never really considered Rush much of a prog band, since they lacked the neo-classical aspirations, let alone the links to traditional English folk music.

― Josh in Chicago (Josh in Chicago), Friday, 1 October 2004 17:44 (twenty-one years ago)

the Urinals covering Soft Machine's We Did it Again to thread...

Last night I played the Robert Fripp song on Exposure with the disco beats and David Byrne vocals.

― Dan Selzer (Dan Selzer), Friday, 1 October 2004 18:00 (twenty-one years ago)

McLaren supposedly got pissed at Lydon because he revealed to an interviewer that he dug Hammill/Van Der Graaf and Neil Young. Where did I read that? Probably in England's Dreaming.

Has anybody listened to Hammill's solo LP, Nadir's Big Chance? This is raw hard rock from '75 that does not sound far removed from punk at all.

This Heat, Homosexuals and British DIY seem to fuse prog, punk, dub and industrial.

― Justin Farrar (Justin Farrar), Friday, 1 October 2004 21:42 (twenty-one years ago)

Nadir's Big Chance is one of my favorite records.

― Dan Selzer (Dan Selzer), Friday, 1 October 2004 22:30 (twenty-one years ago)

These lines are more rigid now because of years of accumulated myth than they probably were at the time, at least for those who genuinely took interesting chances with their music through that period (NOT ELP, for instance). gabriel, hammil, fripp, zappa, all of these people moved in other areas with every release and actively sought out new talent to work with. most of them eventually hit a wall where their music didn't sound very current (zappa excepted, obv), I guess that happens with everyone. gabriel looks exactly like the type of gnome that should be singing about faeries these days.

― kyle (akmonday), Saturday, 2 October 2004 02:02 (twenty-one years ago)

methinks that brian eno must have played into this phenomenon somehow.

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Saturday, 2 October 2004 03:27 (twenty-one years ago)

not to mention that before punk/new wave even came along, prog bands seemed to have dipped into non-prog genres. i mean, yes and genesis DEFINITELY must've been listening to SOME funk.

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Saturday, 2 October 2004 03:29 (twenty-one years ago)

You gotta acknowledge that even ELP got more song-based and toned down the self-concious over-production of before. Thinking of "Love Beach" which is pretty horrible all the same.

― everything, Saturday, 2 October 2004 17:27 (twenty-one years ago)

love beach seems more of a case of bandwagon jumping than something inspired by an geniune interest in the new directions rock music was taking

― kyle (akmonday), Saturday, 2 October 2004 18:01 (twenty-one years ago)

I think another factor in all this is that prog groups (and lots of classic rockers in general) always were really into music gear (I say this as a former devoted childhood reader of guitar magazines)....these guys were always early adopters of synth technology, studio technology, guitar effects technology, all that stuff....anything they could get their hands on it seems...so I guess it follows that they wouldn't have had that same mentality as some classic rockers (although springsteen and henley and tina turner and the stones and almost everyone else seemed to embrace 80s pop production as well) that using synths and sequencers and fairlights or roland guitar synth triggers or steinberger guitars was somehow "not authentic" or "selling out"....proggers seemed to be very very open to new things...(i'm thinking of people like steve howe and alan holdsworth and rush etc etc and especially yes)...they were remarkably not attached to their signature sounds and equipment, if they thought something was better they just ran with it (I guess Miles Davis was the same way really in the 80s).....

― M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Saturday, 2 October 2004 18:07 (twenty-one years ago)

sorry, not Exposure...Under Heavy Manners/God Save the Queen is the Fripp record with the David Byrne disco track on it.

― Dan Selzer (Dan Selzer), Saturday, 2 October 2004 21:31 (twenty-one years ago)

Ex-Sniffing Glue contributor Danny Baker often makes the point that punk was a continuation of prog (in its weird/out pre-proto Gothic horrorload) rather than a negation of prog (tho' you cld make the point that the Pistols drew a lot of their power from the collision of Lydon's prog-dub leanings, Matlock's Beatleisms AND Jones/Cook's Faces/Pub Rock bedrock)

― punkah, Saturday, 2 October 2004 21:54 (twenty-one years ago)

god save the queen is such an awesome record. i know it's probably been said before on some other thread but this really deserves to be on CD in its original version. worth a slsk download certainly. I listened to it yesterday at lunch!

― kyle (akmonday), Saturday, 2 October 2004 23:32 (twenty-one years ago)

>more of a case of bandwagon jumping than something inspired by an geniune interest in the new directions rock music was taking <

falsest dichotomy ever??

― chuck, Sunday, 3 October 2004 02:30 (twenty-one years ago)

it is amusing to contemplate love beach, though, it must be said -- it's one of the most blatant examples of a band stepping away almost totally from what made them famous in the first place. that love beach is legendarily bad is the cherry on the top.

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Sunday, 3 October 2004 02:39 (twenty-one years ago)

Let's all give Love Beach a good listen and see what we think.

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Sunday, 3 October 2004 06:17 (twenty-one years ago)

OK, I looked at some reviews online. It was released in '78, so what bandwagon were they jumping on? There are a bunch of Greg Lake songs on Side One and a twenty minute suite on Side Two.

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Sunday, 3 October 2004 06:30 (twenty-one years ago)

I think Love Beach, from what I recall, was a pressure-from-the-record-company, contractual obligation album. A lot of the tracks were barely more than demos.

If you notice, Love Beach does not even have a "Produced By" credit, because even back then the band members were ashamed of it and none of them were willing to be seen as the one 'overseeing' the music.

― Joe (Joe), Sunday, 3 October 2004 15:15 (twenty-one years ago)

Hmmm...well, I was going to point out how prog & new wave largely began to merge starting around '79 or so, (ie. XTC, Talking Heads, Police) but many of you beat me to it. Then I was going to mention how Yes and King Crimson consciously altered their sounds somewhat to keep current, but that had been mentioned already, also. Then I was gonna mention how both camps had a shared affinity for synths & technology in general, but M@tt was way ahead of me! So all I can say is that it's all been said.

Wait, I remember: Regarding the postpunk-gamelan question, how about Savage Republic?

― Myonga Von Bontee (Myonga Von Bontee), Sunday, 3 October 2004 18:56 (twenty-one years ago)

The smashing bottles in Pere Ubu's "Sentimental Journey" remind me of gamelan cymbals.

― nickn (nickn), Sunday, 3 October 2004 20:59 (twenty-one years ago)

AOR always existed together with new wave (particularly in the US market, which didn't really adopt new wave until the early 80s). Thus, the prog bands could easily adapt to AOR, alienating their old prog fans, but still making lots more money than they did when making prog.

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Monday, 4 October 2004 10:52 (twenty-one years ago)

ELP's one and only Top of the Pops appearance was promoting the single off "Love Beach".

"Love Beach"! Is that meant to be an ironic title? (I really don;t know, my prog knowledge is approx . )

― mark grout (mark grout), Monday, 4 October 2004 10:58 (twenty-one years ago)

not to mention that before punk/new wave even came along, prog bands seemed to have dipped into non-prog genres. i mean, yes and genesis DEFINITELY must've been listening to SOME funk.

I don't hear a lot of funk in Genesis' 70s material. Of course, by the realease of "Duke", which was the first album where Phil Collins had considerable creative input other than singing and drumming, you could hear Collins' Motown influences rather well, particularly on a couple of the hit singles.

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Monday, 4 October 2004 10:59 (twenty-one years ago)

[i]"Love Beach"! Is that meant to be an ironic title?[/i]

No, it's the name of a beach in the Bahamas (they recorded the album in Nassau).

― Joe (Joe), Monday, 4 October 2004 15:42 (twenty-one years ago)

do you like Yes when they get funky, geir?

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Tuesday, 5 October 2004 00:02 (twenty-one years ago)

I don't quite know when Yes would get funky. I wouldn't even consider their 80s AOR oriented stuff particularly "funky".

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Tuesday, 5 October 2004 00:05 (twenty-one years ago)

listen to "roundabout" -- it's funky as all hell!

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Tuesday, 5 October 2004 00:07 (twenty-one years ago)

The silent parts, which is the best about it (like about most of Yes' 70s output), certainly aren't.

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Tuesday, 5 October 2004 00:08 (twenty-one years ago)

prog new wave: Robert Fripp & The League of Gentlemen (in its original unedited form)

― (Jon L), Tuesday, 5 October 2004 00:16 (twenty-one years ago)

I guess the early 80s incarnation of Soft Machine could also be considered prog new wave of sorts....

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Tuesday, 5 October 2004 00:17 (twenty-one years ago)

The silent parts, which is the best about it (like about most of Yes' 70s output), certainly aren't.

This sounds like the most cryptic and Zen thing you've ever said, Geir, (or else just like a total dis!) but I don't think you meant it that way. Do you just mean the beatless 'ambient'-ish bits in the intro and the end? If you do, you do have to recognize that you're ignoring a big part of the song! Their rhythm section, Squire's bass esp, has plenty of funk in it, often on Yes' best tracks - "Siberian Khatru" too.

― sundar subramanian (sundar), Tuesday, 5 October 2004 01:26 (twenty-one years ago)

I dislike "Siberian Khatru", which has way to little of those beautiful moody parts.

Generally, I mean, I like the entire bit, but what I like best is the contracts, and my favourite parts are definitely when all the noise is being "turned off" and Jon Anderson is being left alone with a bit of soft synths and acoustic guitars behind him. That's really the essence of why I love symphonic rock!

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Tuesday, 5 October 2004 11:23 (twenty-one years ago)

That is, prog should have as much classical music and as little jazz in it as possible.

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Tuesday, 5 October 2004 11:24 (twenty-one years ago)

Geir,

Making sense as usual, I see...

― Joe (Joe), Tuesday, 5 October 2004 16:23 (twenty-one years ago)

{I dislike "Siberian Khatru"}

Turn round, glider. Yes peaked on that song. I'm not saying it's their best, or that they wouldn't go on to do more amazing stuff (speaking of new wave, Drama and 9015 both rule), but "Siberian Khatru" is the end credits to that white hot Yes Album-Close to the Edge run.

― peter banks, Tuesday, 5 October 2004 16:27 (twenty-one years ago)

Yes peaked on that album, on the two other tracks. "Close To The Edge" (the title track) and "And You And I" represents their peak.

I absolutely love "Tales From Topographis Oceans" too though (and those who have decided that album is to be considered a turkey usually aren't too keen on the idea of symphonic rock in the first place)

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Tuesday, 5 October 2004 20:02 (twenty-one years ago)

Chuck, if you're still following this, do you care to elaborate on Regain and Pinephone prog-rock? Your Dozen was over my head.

― steve hise, Wednesday, 6 October 2004 13:40 (twenty-one years ago)

I'd love to see Yes do a cover of "One Nation Under a Groove.
It'd be like watching two freight trains collide at full speed.

― Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Wednesday, 6 October 2004 13:54 (twenty-one years ago)

Do you know "Siberian Khatru"? There's definitely a difference but I think it's less extreme than you make it out to be.

― sundar subramanian (sundar), Wednesday, 6 October 2004 15:37 (twenty-one years ago)

(i like "siberian khatru")

but what IS a "khatru" supposed to be? and what's the significance of its being "siberian"?

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Thursday, 7 October 2004 00:18 (twenty-one years ago)

For some reason I had it in my mind that a "khatru" is a bird of some sort. A quick web search, however, reveals no non-Yes-related khatrus other than Khatru Studios, a web design studio in Charlottesville. I do know that they're outspoken (or is it "heart-spoken"?) though.

― sundar subramanian (sundar), Thursday, 7 October 2004 04:43 (twenty-one years ago)

There's also this.

― sundar subramanian (sundar), Thursday, 7 October 2004 04:56 (twenty-one years ago)

I know the entire "Close To The Edge" album. "Siberian Khatru", like "Sound Chaser", to me is too much jazz and too little classical music. I like them better when the mood changes are more obvious, and when considerably more emphasis is being put on the slower and more moody parts.

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Thursday, 7 October 2004 09:34 (twenty-one years ago)

*
Tag Team Finisher Description: Siberian Khatru executes a Doctor Bomb, then La Chupa Cabre executes a Flying Legdrop and goes for the pin.
*
There's your punk and prog right there.

― weather1ngda1eson (Brian), Thursday, 7 October 2004 10:26 (twenty-one years ago)

Geir: I was asking Custos.

― sundar subramanian (sundar), Thursday, 7 October 2004 14:31 (twenty-one years ago)

The lore is that according to early interviews, "Khatru" is a Yemeni word meaning "as you wish" or "as you will". Could be hogwash, though I don't speak Yemeni. ;)

Also:

"'Khatru' is just a lot of interesting words, though it does relate to the dreams of clear summer days. The title means winter, but it is meant to be the opposite. It doesn't mean a great deal, but it's a nice tune, and that carries it."
--Jon Anderson (1973)

― Joe (Joe), Thursday, 7 October 2004 19:24 (twenty-one years ago)

Yes "Starship Trooper" vs. Sarah Brightman "I Lost My Heart to a Starship Trooper"

― chuck, Thursday, 7 October 2004 19:37 (twenty-one years ago)

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