Pavement:Classic or Dud

I can sum up Pavement with a few words: run-on sentences, inside-jokes (which, unfortunately are never explained), sloppy jams hovering somewhere between self-mocking angst and slacker apathy culminating in complacency.

Something about them was unique at one time, but not terribly more unique than several other bands of the same era. And, is it just me, or does Steve have NO RANGE?!

That being said, I think Pavement are okay for summer music ("Summer babe"...) but Steve's starting to wear out his welcome in my eardrums.

I like the ballads, I think - "Here", "We Dance". Ask me in ten years.

I appreciate the Fall's virulence, to hark back to an obvious predecessor, to Pavement's mere quirkiness. Compared to the bile Mark E. can drop from his lips, the endlessly quoted putdowns from "Range Life" seem completely wimpy and pointless.

"Slanted.." is the only album that I play regularly, and I admit it's good, as is half of "Wowee Zowee". They CAN be almost great ("Summer Babe", "Here", "Father to a Sister of a Thought"), but seem content to pad out releases with half-arsed Pavement-by-numbers material. Or should that be Fall-by-numbers?

I lost interest by "Brighten the Corners" when it was clear that they could only do one thing, and we're probably going to do it for ever.

They make me bob my head and laugh and feel good - which is the whole of the point of Pavement (as far as I see it). And...job well-done.

'Crooked Rain, Crooken Rain' is simply brilliant in it's slackerisms. And is in my top 3 (maybe even THE) summer album list. Already have listened to it many times this very summer period and will surely listen to it many more times (as I have for past summers). It still hasn't lost it's charms on me (not come summer time, at least). Last summer, a younger cousin of mine got married. And...I played 'Crooked Rain' loud as I drove there and back as the perfect soundtrack to all that has been slacked in my young, but getting old, life. Worked perfectly for that "I'm 30. What do I have to show for it?" mood when you just want to say "Fuck it all. I'm going driving in search of some far off land of fairies and hot cocoa." (fine, maybe that's just me, but)

'Woowee Zowee' is good in many spots (nix the forced "punk" tracks). And Malkmus solo album is a solid summer album (for the most part). The rest...I don't care too much for, but. 'Crooked Rain' makes up for the rest alone.

It being Preston, Lancashire would have fitted Pavement's rather tiresome Anglophile image, I suppose.

well because your vitriol for the indie bands you don't like is so potent! but what people don't realize is that this is only because a True Indie Rock Player cannot tolerate impure visions, hangers-on, fake players in tha tr00 game! Why ride the Night Train to Butterglory when you can have the '97 California Cabernet of Trigger Cut! latecomers get a late pass, we been up in this game since the jump!

best song off S&E sounds least like the rest; i'd like them if all their songs sounded like that one.

With each Pavement album, there's like six good-to-great songs, and the rest is just absolute self-indulgent wankery garbage. It's shocking that their first couple records have achieved the status of Perfect Canonical Rock Classics That Everyone Should Buy. TRUST ME - THEY'RE NOT!

I completely agree with that, at least for S&E. I couldn't even listen to CRCR-- particularly that godawful single "Cut Your Hair"; Wowee Zowee and Brighten the Corners failed to make any impression on me whatsoever-- well, except that they seemed exceedingly mediocre. S&E has a few good songs, but "Here" is the standout tune, and it doesn't sound like the rest. I never feel inclined to listen to anything else by Pavement besides that song.

here?

also, classic!

xpost

the last song sounds a lot like "here." i'm blanking on the name. "i've been waiting. anticipating."

pavement are my favorite band ever. it makes me a little sad to know that some people don't like them; there's certainly some aspect of their music that everyone can love. a lot of people complain about malkmus' voice (especially early), but i think that he does some fantastic things with his voice that don't really fall under the "technical" category.
i've never really heard anyone say that the guy can't write a tune, mostly because that would be absurd to say. i can see why some people would be a bit put off by his (to them) excessive ennui and laid-back style, but for me that just enhanced what i loved about him. also, the more time you spend with the records, the more you can appreciate the songs which aren't as obvious at first. i know he first time i listened to S+E, i didnt really 'get' it besides "here", which i probably put on repeat for 5 hours straight. once you get adjusted to that particular style, the other stuff starts to make sense. what might ostensibly be "self-indulgent" are to me fruitful exercises in his singular, genius style. to each his own, though.

mr snrub, that's "our singer", S+E's closer

http://blogs.nashvillescene.com/nashvillecream/2009/02/the_spin_pavement_reunion_at_t.php

four-fifths of Pavement reunites (not really) for Bob N.'s wedding

was spiral stairs not invited? harsh.
i certainly wouldn't mind seeing Pavement play live again, but all of the hubbub and hype that would accompany a potential reunion would be dreadful, I'm sure.

I still remember my friend declaring back in '95 that WZ was so bad, he would never listen to indie rock again. As far as I can tell he only listens to 60s garage rock.

i still skip kennel district though

madness

Absolutely the best. Always need to hear the whole thing in one sitting. No skips.

Styles? They come and go. But I don't want to let you go.

Kennel District is one of my favorite Pavement songs!

Captivate the senses like a ginger ale rain

xp ditto! The only WZ track to skip is conveniently placed at the end (western homes).

For years I called WZ my all-time favorite album, and it's still up in the top 3 or so. Loved it from the first time I heard it. When I was first getting into Pavement, circa early 1998, I went to the mall with the express purpose of buying Brighten the Corners, because I already had Crooked Rain and Slanted, and I'd heard "Stereo" and "Shady Lane" and felt like I needed the album with those two songs on it. When I got to Blockbuster Music I decided to check out Wowee Zowee at one of the listening stations, and I was like Holy shit, this whole album is amazing. But I could only afford one $17.99 CD, and Brighten the Corners was what I'd come for so Brighten the Corners is what I got. When I got home and listened to BtC in full I realized I'd made a huge mistake not getting WZ instead.

Ah yeah this is the last one I managed to get into. Went to London and bought it along with a few other bits, then on to Oxford to visit a friend. We went put raving and when I came back my bag of cool new stuff was gone. My suspicion his housemate had stolen it. It took a while for me to buy it again

yeah, wz is the best pavement album. pig lib is better though.

crazy talk! (that is the best SM/Jixx album, tho – especially w/the bonus disc)

Pig Lib is fantastic, we can all agree on that. And yay WZ is also great. I like Pavement!

I played a lot of my favourite albums to death when I was a teenager, including this one, but I'm still not bored of it. I find most of those childhood albums a chore to listen to now - I'm never sure why some albums go the distance, and some don't. Wowee Zowee has a classic mix - it's unpredictable, but it's also very tuneful, whereas Crooked Rain feels like more of a traditionally structured album, even if the songs are just as good. Perhaps it's the unpredictablity that keeps it fresh, althought that doesn't explain why I can still listen to "Rumours".

https://images.app.goo.gl/MozoupNp5YJdVcmz9

Happy birthday, WZ! One of the most important records of my life, no argument.

It’s the best Pavement record but CRCR is just like a hair or two behind - you put those two albums together and holy shit

Hard to look so far back with clarity, but I remember this somehow being both an apex and an end of an era for me.

I’ve shared this too many times but WZ came out the spring of my senior year of high school, and that brutal Rolling Stone review was somehow crucial, the thing that made me buy the tape.

(Prior to this a friend or two were fans, and based on an NPR segment about “Range Life” I just thought, “these guys seem like dicks and I don’t care about ‘Cut Your Hair’.”)

I was driving my first car, a piece of shit Ford with a busted radio, which meant I needed to have a portable tape player with batteries in the passenger seat, and I listened to WZ a ton. Because it was a portable tape player, and because Baltimore County roads could be bouncy, the sound was jaundiced and not as through as what you’d typically hear in a car, and of course this record is all over the place already. It felt and feels to me like a record about possibility - where can one go, what can one do, what CAN’T one do, etc. It’s having a self bursting with promise and trying a bunch of shit. The future is wide open.

And then a few months later I watched them play some of it at Lollapalooza.

Not to play on corny "slacker" stereotypes, but it's funny that Pavement's so-called "sprawling self-indulgent out-of-control magnum opus" is only 18 songs and an album-and-a-half long. "That's enough sprawl, not too much!"

that blank 4th side lol

That is funny, but I appreciate them for not pointlessly spreading the tracks onto four sides of vinyl. More bands should do it that way

Funny -- I also bought WZ at a Blockbuster music in 1998.

The independent record store across the street from the mall, which was where I'd first heard of Pavement (Store owner: "The new Blur album sucks. It sounds like Pavement." Me, in love with the new Blur album: "Pavement, you say?"), had just closed after being open like three months. :(

There was a Pavement interview where they complained that on their British tour journalists just wanted to ask them what they thought of Blur.

I was a minor Pavement fan and somehow I got all of their albums at once; a friend must have been selling off his CDs for cheap. I liked them all but some took more work to appreciate than others. WZ was my instant favorite and still is. Is “Half a Canyon” the one where they morph into early Stereolab and groove out? That’s my favorite Pavement song.

yes it is. it rules.

allez allez allez allez allez
allez allez allez allez allez
allez allez allez allez allez
allez allez allez allez
allez allez

https://www.newyorker.com/culture/the-front-row/a-joyfully-chaotic-tribute-to-pavement-in-pavements

stoked

this movie was so fucking funny

Going to try and see this on Sunday. Also spotted Mark Ibold at Body/Head show tonight in Gowanus - guy had a busy evening, a friend of mine said he also did a Q&A for the movie at Film Forum in the West Village a couple of hours later.

Managed to get into the afternoon show at Film Forum, the last one to have a Q&A with Alex Ross Perry, Mark Ibold and Steve West (with Nat Wolff joining this time). A very fun afternoon, I hope they recorded the Q&A for posterity. I thought the film was all right - I'm not sure everything worked, at least not all the time, with the musical theater portion feeling like it was stretched pretty thin - but I don't want to complain too much because it was a pretty thoughtful attempt at making a biographical film worthy of the band's work rather than a paint-by-numbers production. Amusingly, when the band first saw the film (or what they thought was the film), they were only shown the biographical film within the film, not realizing the film as whole was far from finished and that it was going to be three stylistically different strands tied together. (Perry actually wanted them to understand that and made a point to put that in an email before they saw it, but perhaps fittingly, no one apparently read his email, or at least read that specific part.)

Also a follow up to the previous post, Ibold wore the Body/Head T-shirt they had at the merch table to the Q&A.

One more thing about the Q&A - they talked about the fake museum they set up (which was also a merch shop) where every exhibit wasn't quite true. For example, they displayed an MTV Icon Award, and it was indeed a genuine trophy, but it was for the Beastie Boys and they just borrowed it and put a fake plate over the real one. Perry points out they could only show it at one angle because the plate was like a quarter or an eighth inch high off the base. Meanwhile, the gold and platinum records were of course fake and prompted a band they know to genuinely ask them "did you guys really sell more records then us?" (Couldn't hear the band's name.) And yet the inflated numbers are still pretty modest for a band of their stature. None of their albums have gone gold yet, but the museum has two or thee gold records and one platinum one - roughly on par with the Pixies, and I probably would've guessed that myself 15 years ago when I attended their first reunion.

just the way you're describing it makes it sound like kind of a dumbass thing to do in an age of uncanny valleys and deepfakes. I know I'm probably being in a stick in the mud, that just sounds like a weird flex.

Yeah - maybe this will be clearer when I actually see the movie, but from all I've heard about it, I just dont quite get the purpose of all the pranking and fakery and meta-stunts. Pavement always obviously had a strong air of mystery, were very oblique, engaged with postmodernism, blurred the lines btw irony & sincerity, etc.

But imho thats very different than just being the ultimate pranksters, being like "you'll never truly know us because we'll lie and fool you every time!" It just seems like a huge misunderstanding of what the band was about. For me, all the obliqueness and mystery of Pavement added up to a general thesis that life & the world are deeper & stranger than you'll ever know. But being mysterious isnt the same thing as being untrustworthy, and postmodernism doesnt just mean "everything is bogus". Idk maybe it'll make more sense when I see it but everything I hear about it just makes it sound like the whole thing is proceeding from a really flawed take.

v good post ty, I generally agree but still wanna see this

btw I just sold/traded my copy of Slay Tracks to former ilxor 69, mine has a cover/insert and his did not #collectorscum

I grew up in Cville and am same age/one degree removed from the Ectoslavia scene so I was tipped to the 7" on release and got it at Plan 9 Records

#Iwasthere

what more do you want from the band than their albums tho. i find the idea of the film refreshing. do we really need thurston moore sitting in front of a bunch of records talking about Malkmus's radical guitar tone

xpost obv

do we really need thurston moore sitting in front of a bunch of records talking about Malkmus's radical guitar tone

god please no

also I would argue his tunings are more distinctive than his tone!

they just do not seem like the band that needs a standard rock doc

otm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Z2UyB5dxzQ

lmao at "when I thought about 'AT&T', I thought about a hoedown"

just watching a fake dance recital for this band is cracking me the f up

We're seeing the film on Saturday; I don't quite get the concept (from the bits & pieces I've read about it), but will definitely go in w/an open mind. I agree w/One Eye Open that I've never seen Pavement as a joke- or prank-oriented band, or even one with a heavily "meta" approach... not that I think a straightforward rock doc is needed either, and I guess the idea of something different & creative seems cool.

I actually feel like Slow Century does a pretty great job of telling the bands story in a linear & non-gimmicky fashion without being a boring by-the-numbers rock doc. I'm sure the new movie is fun & I'll probably like it fine, but I would also have been totally thrilled to get a Slow Century Redux type movie that brings the bands story into 2025 without any comedy bits.

xps I can't say you guys are wrong, but given how much the audience I was with appreciated the humor, I'd say check it out anyway and see if the film plays that way as a whole.

First off, the film is Perry's vision and his interpretation of the band, and I can't emphasize that enough, and the role of the director can be downplayed a bit too much with a lot of rock films. Dont Look Back and A Hard Day's Night are genuinely great films IMHO, but while Dylan and the Beatles are clearly central to them, it's still the vision and interpretation of D A Pennebaker and Richard Lester, great filmmakers who arguably went on to do greater work elsewhere. By the same token, mediocre rock films can fail for the same reason.

From the very start, it's obvious a huge portion of the film was going to be fiction, the opening title card makes that clear, so it's not just the museum they set up. The audience I was with clearly enjoyed all of it, and while there are funny moments, I wasn't entirely sure what Perry was trying to prove and whether it was coming off as snide and even condescending without having the same charm and goofiness that makes Pavement's humor more endearing. (Pavement can be mysterious, but there's a lot about them that I find down-to-earth too, especially as they've grown older.) That's kind of the problem with the musical theater segments, even though Perry is apparently a genuine fan of musical theater. I wasn't quite sure what to make of it, and it was all the more strange because I'm actually not a huge musical theater fan, but I make a point not to look down on it because a lot of people I knew are/were in that world and so much of classic jazz draws from its repertoire. The fake movie within a movie did play as funny satire of prestige biopics - I laughed heartily at certain jokes I won't give away - but in hindsight, it also felt like an easy target and what they got out of it was the easy jokes rather than anything truly edifying. Whether there was anything deeper to be had, I don't know, but it still doesn't change how thin the jokes can seem. But not surprisingly that's the part of the film where Perry invests most of his ideas. The documentary footage is the most conventional, but it's also the most affecting just to see the band as they are, in youth and in middle age.

OEO’s post is where I’m at with this (not having seen it yet). It doesn’t seem to need to exist at all. But, yes, I’ll buy the ticket and take the ride because a) this band and in particular its leader has meant a lot to me and b) I’ve enjoyed a few of Perry’s movies.

that youtube clip posted upthread with its whole "lol musical theatre" shtick does not have me hopeful for this movie at all to be honest