Pavement:Classic or Dud

I can sum up Pavement with a few words: run-on sentences, inside-jokes (which, unfortunately are never explained), sloppy jams hovering somewhere between self-mocking angst and slacker apathy culminating in complacency.

Something about them was unique at one time, but not terribly more unique than several other bands of the same era. And, is it just me, or does Steve have NO RANGE?!

That being said, I think Pavement are okay for summer music ("Summer babe"...) but Steve's starting to wear out his welcome in my eardrums.

I like the ballads, I think - "Here", "We Dance". Ask me in ten years.

I appreciate the Fall's virulence, to hark back to an obvious predecessor, to Pavement's mere quirkiness. Compared to the bile Mark E. can drop from his lips, the endlessly quoted putdowns from "Range Life" seem completely wimpy and pointless.

"Slanted.." is the only album that I play regularly, and I admit it's good, as is half of "Wowee Zowee". They CAN be almost great ("Summer Babe", "Here", "Father to a Sister of a Thought"), but seem content to pad out releases with half-arsed Pavement-by-numbers material. Or should that be Fall-by-numbers?

I lost interest by "Brighten the Corners" when it was clear that they could only do one thing, and we're probably going to do it for ever.

They make me bob my head and laugh and feel good - which is the whole of the point of Pavement (as far as I see it). And...job well-done.

'Crooked Rain, Crooken Rain' is simply brilliant in it's slackerisms. And is in my top 3 (maybe even THE) summer album list. Already have listened to it many times this very summer period and will surely listen to it many more times (as I have for past summers). It still hasn't lost it's charms on me (not come summer time, at least). Last summer, a younger cousin of mine got married. And...I played 'Crooked Rain' loud as I drove there and back as the perfect soundtrack to all that has been slacked in my young, but getting old, life. Worked perfectly for that "I'm 30. What do I have to show for it?" mood when you just want to say "Fuck it all. I'm going driving in search of some far off land of fairies and hot cocoa." (fine, maybe that's just me, but)

'Woowee Zowee' is good in many spots (nix the forced "punk" tracks). And Malkmus solo album is a solid summer album (for the most part). The rest...I don't care too much for, but. 'Crooked Rain' makes up for the rest alone.

It being Preston, Lancashire would have fitted Pavement's rather tiresome Anglophile image, I suppose.

well because your vitriol for the indie bands you don't like is so potent! but what people don't realize is that this is only because a True Indie Rock Player cannot tolerate impure visions, hangers-on, fake players in tha tr00 game! Why ride the Night Train to Butterglory when you can have the '97 California Cabernet of Trigger Cut! latecomers get a late pass, we been up in this game since the jump!

best song off S&E sounds least like the rest; i'd like them if all their songs sounded like that one.

With each Pavement album, there's like six good-to-great songs, and the rest is just absolute self-indulgent wankery garbage. It's shocking that their first couple records have achieved the status of Perfect Canonical Rock Classics That Everyone Should Buy. TRUST ME - THEY'RE NOT!

I completely agree with that, at least for S&E. I couldn't even listen to CRCR-- particularly that godawful single "Cut Your Hair"; Wowee Zowee and Brighten the Corners failed to make any impression on me whatsoever-- well, except that they seemed exceedingly mediocre. S&E has a few good songs, but "Here" is the standout tune, and it doesn't sound like the rest. I never feel inclined to listen to anything else by Pavement besides that song.

here?

also, classic!

xpost

the last song sounds a lot like "here." i'm blanking on the name. "i've been waiting. anticipating."

pavement are my favorite band ever. it makes me a little sad to know that some people don't like them; there's certainly some aspect of their music that everyone can love. a lot of people complain about malkmus' voice (especially early), but i think that he does some fantastic things with his voice that don't really fall under the "technical" category.
i've never really heard anyone say that the guy can't write a tune, mostly because that would be absurd to say. i can see why some people would be a bit put off by his (to them) excessive ennui and laid-back style, but for me that just enhanced what i loved about him. also, the more time you spend with the records, the more you can appreciate the songs which aren't as obvious at first. i know he first time i listened to S+E, i didnt really 'get' it besides "here", which i probably put on repeat for 5 hours straight. once you get adjusted to that particular style, the other stuff starts to make sense. what might ostensibly be "self-indulgent" are to me fruitful exercises in his singular, genius style. to each his own, though.

mr snrub, that's "our singer", S+E's closer

http://blogs.nashvillescene.com/nashvillecream/2009/02/the_spin_pavement_reunion_at_t.php

four-fifths of Pavement reunites (not really) for Bob N.'s wedding

was spiral stairs not invited? harsh.
i certainly wouldn't mind seeing Pavement play live again, but all of the hubbub and hype that would accompany a potential reunion would be dreadful, I'm sure.

In a Pitchfork reel on IG they name perfect 10 albums and Malkmus mentions one he says he learned about from his daughter- Guiding Lights- Fear on my Own Time

was it m b v that started the trend of reunion albums actually being good? i’m sure malkmus is struggling with how when he was growing up you’d occasionally see the most embarrassing reunion albums like pool it (the monkees) and various csn(y) records. spiral sure seems out of steam as a songwriter too, but i could see a pavement reunion album feeling more like the dinosaur junior albums than indie cindy. the new team dresch sounded great live.

the walker brothers got there about 40 years before mbv did

that would be funny if only the first four songs were by malkmus

Mission Of Burma beat MBV

If they self-consciously try to make "a Pavement album" it would likely be bad. Whereas if they can ignore expectations and do whatever comes naturally, there's a much better chance of it being good, but people might hear it as not a "real" Pavement record. Which would be the most Pavement move they could possibly make.

disagree. they can do it--the Mission of Burma is a great example. I forget how good those albums are.

Television's third album is very good and came out in 1992

xp to be clear, I definitely think they could do it too. Malk has definitely never lost it as a songwriter, missteps like Groove Denied aside. Some of his Hard Quartet songs are among my favorites he's written. I suppose I'm tempering my expectations a bit because Pavement mean a lot to me personally

the television record gets props unduly, it’s pretty cringe beyond 1880, i’d say. but maybe some of the songs are pavementy.

i should listen to those burma records, i’d probably like them.

Disagree about the Television s/t, I love it.
For a new Pavement record, Malkmus would probably have to tone down the proggier elements that sometimes came to the fore w/ the Jicks, but that might not be a bad thing

if malkmus writes a bunch of his least pavement-esque/most jammy & proggy material for the pavement reunion album i'd be delighted but i'm not expecting that at all. more realistically i expect a new pavement album would sound pretty similar to the malkmus songs on the hard quartet album and i think people would be pretty satisfied with that because those were the most pavement-esque arrangements he's had since pavement

yeah for real

you take away the keyboard player from malkmus and suddenly he sounds just like pavement again

MoB's "The Obliterati" is amazing. Saw them in Atlanta on that tour and it remains one of my Top 5 favorite shows ever.

yep those shows were great and the reunion albums are very good

NICOTINE BOMB!

malkmus should hook up w/tina weymouth, chris frantz and jerry harrison and make a talking heads reunion album

It cool if everyone got a songwriting credit on this record, if there was more of a collaborative spirit at play

I’m hoping for the best

“It would be cool if”

finally reading the p4k article and was delighted to see the neutered Matador 21 show brought up. i remember watching that show and thinking this reunion was going to be an absolute trainwreck because of Malkmus.

I had zero interest in the first reunion because he seemed so not into it. The current one was pretty excellent its first time through Atlanta though—he was more playful and engaged and into it than half the shows I saw ‘em play in the ‘90s.

the television record gets props unduly, it’s pretty cringe beyond 1880, i’d say. but maybe some of the songs are pavementy.

The Television is pretty wonderful after "1880 or So."

GM, that’s the same reason I passed on the first reunion (that, and a lack of money).

Went to the second one in ‘22 because I knew someone inside the concert industry who gave me a VIP ticket; that they sounded great!

If the ‘27 tour comes near me I’ll try to be there

(I’d seen them already twice in the 90s, 1995 and then 1997)

managed to miss them live every time they played until reunion show last summer and it was incredibly great. can't imagine them playing a better show frankly.

I’m not the biggest fan of the band to begin with but I don’t get the ubiquitous love for the recent shows — the one I saw was quiet for a rock show, felt like the band was showing up for a paycheck (I don’t expect them to have the energy of a band trying to break into the scene in 1992 but I’ve seen way more convincing reunion acts as far as looking like they actually want to play the music again), and outside of a couple moments felt more or less like being at home listening to the recordings (as I age I have less patience for going out to a show and it sounding like I pressed play on the CD with the volume turned up to 8 instead of 6)

and you're not the biggest fan of the band to begin with, you say?

saw them at bumbershoot a couple years ago, delightfully ramshackle performance. definitely didn't sound like a recreation of the album recordings

had a great time at pave reunion shows in 2010 and 2022. maybe the only slight complaint about the most recent one is that Malkmus was playing it pretty safe with his vocals — always appreciated in the 1990s when he'd do bizarro deliveries / phrasing.

I wish I’d written about the 2022 show I saw.

Two notes, things that stood out:

1. I couldn’t hear Spiral’s guitar, and apparently, neither could he. I’ve heard this happened at other shows.
2. It felt at times that SM was cosplaying as a rock star in his own band — as if he was pretending that the parts were maybe harder to play than they really were. It was like he was exaggerating to lock into the experience, or something.

But it’s all good, I love these guys, it was great to hear them sounding stronger than they had before on stage.

i enjoyed the 2010 gig i saw & didnt feel like there was tension or bad vibes or anything, but it also wasnt quite the nostalgic rock & roll catharsis that i was maybe hoping for. i havent been able to see any of the new reunion shows, but the main thing that seems appealing about them to me is that the general mood seems more fun & special than in 2010: more young people in the crowd, a little more energy around the band & their career these days, being thankful that all of them are still alive & able to do it, etc. i hope to catch a gig this time around, and aside from whether the band is playing good or going through the motions it just sounds like the communal experience with the audience will be worth it, if nothing else.

^^^^ saw them this summer and it was a total sing along love fest and the sing along was not overpowering in any way. really special

It was at the Pavement early november 2022 show in Carre Amsterdam that I figured out what makes Pavement songs so special: every song has some killer lyric, and with each of these moments the crowd would sing along. I never expected to Pavement to be a sing along kinda band but here we are. Show was great, even better than the two shows I saw in 2010.

ha I can immediately envision some of those, e.g. "NO BIG HAIR"

"and I could really give a fuck"

etc

yep, that's how it was. sweet as hell

That was definitely a highlight, but also more obscure ones: "Pick out some brazilian nuts for your engagement - check that expiration date man, it's later than you think"

Then again, I was surrounded by a bunch of uber-fans, so that also might help. Also, The opened the show with three album openers in a row: We Dance, Silence Kit and Stereo.

* they opened the show...

xxp that's a fave!

I can’t imagine what it’s like to be a non-hardcore fan at one of these shows

i'm not a hardcore fan and it was fun as shit. maybe the mosswood show was an outlier but the band was having a blast, including Malkmus.

I see there's a Mojo Special edition on Pavement, just out

I saw them three times in the 90s before I was actually into them, at shows with other bands. The records never clicked for me at that point in my life and they were sloppy as hell live, but were really great the third time which got me to re-investigate the albums.

Loved them wholeheartedly both times I saw them in '92

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9EYoysBEEqo

another one for hairway to stephen

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0NWzgzUNPzc

why does he know "eagle rock" lmao

the pavement reunion show i saw in 2023 was pretty good, malkmus was in good spirits dancing around & nastanovich was jumping around the stage and throwing ping pong balls (still not sure what that was about). it wasn't just like the albums either, they jammed out some of the brighten the corners & terror twilight songs for a while and those were a significant improvement over the album versions (which i'm not the biggest fan of). i hope the reunion album will go more in that direction if it happens, malkmus is just a great jammer. but i think the closer it sounds to a jicks album the better so lol

top 5 malkmus albums:

real emotional trash
pig lib
stephen malkmus
slanted & enchanted
crooked rain, crooked rain