Pavement:Classic or Dud

I can sum up Pavement with a few words: run-on sentences, inside-jokes (which, unfortunately are never explained), sloppy jams hovering somewhere between self-mocking angst and slacker apathy culminating in complacency.

Something about them was unique at one time, but not terribly more unique than several other bands of the same era. And, is it just me, or does Steve have NO RANGE?!

That being said, I think Pavement are okay for summer music ("Summer babe"...) but Steve's starting to wear out his welcome in my eardrums.

I like the ballads, I think - "Here", "We Dance". Ask me in ten years.

I appreciate the Fall's virulence, to hark back to an obvious predecessor, to Pavement's mere quirkiness. Compared to the bile Mark E. can drop from his lips, the endlessly quoted putdowns from "Range Life" seem completely wimpy and pointless.

"Slanted.." is the only album that I play regularly, and I admit it's good, as is half of "Wowee Zowee". They CAN be almost great ("Summer Babe", "Here", "Father to a Sister of a Thought"), but seem content to pad out releases with half-arsed Pavement-by-numbers material. Or should that be Fall-by-numbers?

I lost interest by "Brighten the Corners" when it was clear that they could only do one thing, and we're probably going to do it for ever.

They make me bob my head and laugh and feel good - which is the whole of the point of Pavement (as far as I see it). And...job well-done.

'Crooked Rain, Crooken Rain' is simply brilliant in it's slackerisms. And is in my top 3 (maybe even THE) summer album list. Already have listened to it many times this very summer period and will surely listen to it many more times (as I have for past summers). It still hasn't lost it's charms on me (not come summer time, at least). Last summer, a younger cousin of mine got married. And...I played 'Crooked Rain' loud as I drove there and back as the perfect soundtrack to all that has been slacked in my young, but getting old, life. Worked perfectly for that "I'm 30. What do I have to show for it?" mood when you just want to say "Fuck it all. I'm going driving in search of some far off land of fairies and hot cocoa." (fine, maybe that's just me, but)

'Woowee Zowee' is good in many spots (nix the forced "punk" tracks). And Malkmus solo album is a solid summer album (for the most part). The rest...I don't care too much for, but. 'Crooked Rain' makes up for the rest alone.

It being Preston, Lancashire would have fitted Pavement's rather tiresome Anglophile image, I suppose.

well because your vitriol for the indie bands you don't like is so potent! but what people don't realize is that this is only because a True Indie Rock Player cannot tolerate impure visions, hangers-on, fake players in tha tr00 game! Why ride the Night Train to Butterglory when you can have the '97 California Cabernet of Trigger Cut! latecomers get a late pass, we been up in this game since the jump!

best song off S&E sounds least like the rest; i'd like them if all their songs sounded like that one.

With each Pavement album, there's like six good-to-great songs, and the rest is just absolute self-indulgent wankery garbage. It's shocking that their first couple records have achieved the status of Perfect Canonical Rock Classics That Everyone Should Buy. TRUST ME - THEY'RE NOT!

I completely agree with that, at least for S&E. I couldn't even listen to CRCR-- particularly that godawful single "Cut Your Hair"; Wowee Zowee and Brighten the Corners failed to make any impression on me whatsoever-- well, except that they seemed exceedingly mediocre. S&E has a few good songs, but "Here" is the standout tune, and it doesn't sound like the rest. I never feel inclined to listen to anything else by Pavement besides that song.

here?

also, classic!

xpost

the last song sounds a lot like "here." i'm blanking on the name. "i've been waiting. anticipating."

pavement are my favorite band ever. it makes me a little sad to know that some people don't like them; there's certainly some aspect of their music that everyone can love. a lot of people complain about malkmus' voice (especially early), but i think that he does some fantastic things with his voice that don't really fall under the "technical" category.
i've never really heard anyone say that the guy can't write a tune, mostly because that would be absurd to say. i can see why some people would be a bit put off by his (to them) excessive ennui and laid-back style, but for me that just enhanced what i loved about him. also, the more time you spend with the records, the more you can appreciate the songs which aren't as obvious at first. i know he first time i listened to S+E, i didnt really 'get' it besides "here", which i probably put on repeat for 5 hours straight. once you get adjusted to that particular style, the other stuff starts to make sense. what might ostensibly be "self-indulgent" are to me fruitful exercises in his singular, genius style. to each his own, though.

mr snrub, that's "our singer", S+E's closer

http://blogs.nashvillescene.com/nashvillecream/2009/02/the_spin_pavement_reunion_at_t.php

four-fifths of Pavement reunites (not really) for Bob N.'s wedding

was spiral stairs not invited? harsh.
i certainly wouldn't mind seeing Pavement play live again, but all of the hubbub and hype that would accompany a potential reunion would be dreadful, I'm sure.

The only theater playing this in Baltimore is playing it once daily, at 9:55 pm, which…

Ultimately this is gonna be something I buy on DVD to see, or rent VOD. I can feel it.

Surprised that the Lancaster, PA area has more showings of this than Baltimore, ha. Going to see it tomorrow afternoon in Lititz.

Ray, not sure how far this is for you but the Pavements doc is showing at the AFI Silver in Silver Spring, MD for some showings over the next week

I couldn’t get through the movie. So cringe

But this morning I put my Westing CD on and let it play through, felt ‘95

told her I loved her, and she believed...

That collection is still so kick ass. I didn't want to see the film when I watched a few clips and saw how artsy or meta they tried to make it.

Maybe May maybe maybe May May many maybe

I enjoyed the movie, flaws and all. If you want it to mostly be about how cool Westing is or whatever, it's not that. It tries to take the band's simultaneously ironic and emotionally deep approach and use that as an overview of their legacy. I would never listen to the soundtrack as a stand-alone thing, that seems beside the point.

I think it ultimately shows the band and Malkmus in particular in an entertaining way as guys who wanted to write and play cool tunes, while looking bemusedly at all the extraneous stuff that gets in the way of that.

I like the way it covers the general reception of Wowee Zowee for instance, taking the piss out of the idea that it was some purposely audience-challenging, calculating move, and how it would be covered as such in biopic form.

I disagree with the whole premise that Pavement are an "ironic" band, and I think framing them as such makes them seem way less interesting than they actually are. That's my main issue with the approach of this, but I'll still watch it.

I remember having huge arguments with a friend back in the 90s who said you can’t have an emotional connection to Pavement’s music because it’s too ironic. Perhaps that’s what the bad was going for?

Band

This discourse is killing me

I didn't hear the first EPs when they came out, but I did see their name pop up a few times in reviews of other bands. I guess to describe the sound.
I loved Slanted so much, and then loved the Westing collection just as much. Westing and the first three albums are all easily in my top 200 disc's of all-time. That's what their legacy means to me on a personal level.
I do remember after CR and ZoWee came out, I thought these guys are much more talented than at first appeared to me. One of the things I loved about Westing was the songs seemed like beautiful noisy, but catchy little sketches. They were cool ideas that never overstayed their welcome.

Not trying to make any point, just bored and rambling. I don't think they ever got that big or influential. The few music lovers I know in their 20s have never heard of them.

WZ was a huge let down. CR was just that good

Quite a few 20 something music lovers in the 90s had never heard of them either

I remember having huge arguments with a friend back in the 90s who said you can’t have an emotional connection to Pavement’s music because it’s too ironic. Perhaps that’s what the bad was going for?

Billy Corgan said as much.

An emotional connection was the only way I could embrace the cryptic nature of the lyrics.

"I've got a heavy coat,
It's filled with rocks and sand"

gave me a feeling, but don't ask me what or why.

Feelings about rocks
Or rock in general

“Sandy…”

the heavy coat line in particular reads deeply emotionally to me; it's the method virginia woolf used to die by suicide in the river ouse. the next line, "if i lose it," reads as a metaphor for madness, but then literally if he loses the coat he will be able to "come back today" in the chorus.

exegesis

Saying there’s irony in their music doesn’t mean they’re only an ironic band. Or even that an ironic line contains nothing but irony.

I mean I have such an emotional connection to “Here” I could have it played at my funeral, and it’s also a funny song.

Billy Corgan's idea of an emotionally resonant song is something self-consciously grandiose like "Tonight Tonight." When he says "we'll crucify the insincere tonight" he's probably imagining someone like Malkmus, who he is too dumb to realize is harnessing deep feeling in a way that is sophisticated but also off-handed. People love a song like "Range Life" because it conveys the feeling of being blissed out and carefree, as well as disillusioned and wear. In one six minute song, as in six minutes of your life, you can go from enjoying summer night, to worrying about the bills, to talking shit about some dickhead (Corgan), to choosing to "dream dream dream," and you don't have to be grandiose about it.

it's particularly funny given how corgan's lyrics have since gone well beyond self-consciously grandiose to obtuse nonsense

WZ was a huge let down. CR was just that good

that's def how I felt when WZ came out. Didn't take long for it to win me over, though CRCR is still something else to me.

Like, the pace and structure of CRCR is weirdly flawless for so purposeful unkempt a band as Pavement - the opening track is *such an opener, the final few seconds feel so profound and powerful.

I thought Wowee Zowee was much better than CRCR when it came out and I still do (and I like CRCR)

For me Pavement’s absolute peak was Watery, Domestic and about half of Slanted.

chopping out the "soundtracky" bits from the pavements OST makes for a great 50+ minute live album (with a few rehearsals sprinkled in) ... "fillmore jive" in partic is amazing. hilarious ending.

WZ was a huge let down. CR was just that good

that's def how I felt when WZ came out. Didn't take long for it to win me over, though CRCR is still something else to me.

― conspiracitorial theories (stevie), Monday, June 30, 2025 3:55 AM (twelve hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

Throw in W,D with these two albums and you have perfection (or imperfection, you know what I’m trying to say here)

i like to imagine WZ as a continuation of CR with the ‘air’ at the start of ‘we dance’ finishing off ‘their throats are filled with’ on fillmore jive. but i do believe this is well trodden ground

Throw in W,D with these two albums and you have perfection (or imperfection, you know what I’m trying to say here)

Absolutely. And the truth is I love WZ but it feels like something else from that initial flowering of lo-fi scratchiness

4K: https://vinegarsyndrome.com/products/pavements?_pos=2&_psq=pavem&_ss=e&_v=1.0

uh this movie

woof

I don't know who thought there needed to be a movie about Pavement, and they're my favorite band ever. The whole thing has seemed off.

I'll probably love it if I ever get to see it.

Pavements streaming on Mubi starting on 7/11.

^ I rarely think about Pavement (or look at threads) in the 21st century but they were definitely High School Me's favourite band for at least a year when S+E was released, and I found myself looking forward to the Mubi release.

It's frequently laugh-out-loud funny innit, though it arguably threatens to outstay its welcome at 2+ hours. Also perhaps a little more, well, 'nice' and plainly sentimental than chatter led me to expect, but thumbs up overall!

The movie was actually much better than I was expecting. It has a goofy sarcastic quality that kind of fits the band. The Wowee Zowee of music biopics.

It probably didn't need to be over 2 hours though.

lol I listened to that soundtrack version of Fillmore Jive and Malkmus changed “cause they don’t need you anymore” to “I don’t need to hear another Queen song for the rest of my life.”

This wasn't too bad, but I don't really know what it was trying to communicate, and whether it communicates anything at all to someone who doesn't know the band

They’re the new classic rock

lol I listened to that soundtrack version of Fillmore Jive and Malkmus changed “cause they don’t need you anymore” to “I don’t need to hear another Queen song for the rest of my life.”

Pavement represents one of the best things about being in a band, which is trying to crack your bandmates up.

ONCE UPON A TIME THERE WERE ♾️ PAVEMENT MOVIES:

https://metrograph.com/film/?vista_film_id=9999004382

This felt more like a film about music biopics than a film about Pavement. I guess Slow Century already did a fine job of the latter. The filmmakers certainly weren't interested in introducing newcomers to the band, or appeasing fans who might want to hear more than five seconds of a Pavement song.

I enjoyed Joe Keery a lot though

Happily used the fast forward and rewind watching this. So many great archival clips and interesting recent rehearsal stuff. Too much unfunny meta nonsense and musical theatre.

Spiral is playing this weird micro-show this weekend at a screening of Pavements at this tiny theater in a remote SF suburb. Acoustic set with "special guests"? (Kelley Stoltz? Oranger lol?) followed by commentary and Q&A.

Tix were ~$35 but limited to 70 and sold out. Curious if anyone goes though.

Are Oranger playing again? Thought they’d called it a day after Matt passed away. Fantastic group at their peak (as is Kelley tbh)