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aaaaah! Busted are fucking tories

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rubbish at posting links but it is in the guardian today. WTF I thought they at least pretended to be a punk band.

― lukey (Lukey G), Thursday, 7 October 2004 07:22 (twenty-one years ago)

I've never really thought as punk as specifically left-wing.

― Alba (Alba), Thursday, 7 October 2004 07:24 (twenty-one years ago)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/arts/news/story/0,11711,1321496,00.html

― pete b. (pete b.), Thursday, 7 October 2004 07:26 (twenty-one years ago)

What I liked best about the story (taken from a Tatler interview) was ex-Lib Dem voter Jay saying "Yeah, actually, you know what, I am not going to be ripped off any more. From the financial position I am in now, I am a fucking Tory boy too."

― Alba (Alba), Thursday, 7 October 2004 07:26 (twenty-one years ago)

thanks bruv.
xpost. No its anti political, anti establishment, so supporting a bunch of fat, biggoted, perverted, out of touch millionaires hardly seems good form.

― lukey (Lukey G), Thursday, 7 October 2004 07:29 (twenty-one years ago)

I suppose if we took out all Tory and Republican pop stars there wouldn't be much pop left, except maybe Billy Bragg, Steve Earle and Asian Dub Foundation.

― Marcello Carlin, Thursday, 7 October 2004 07:31 (twenty-one years ago)

They're the new Jam, isn't it obvious?

― Sick Mouthy (Nick Southall), Thursday, 7 October 2004 07:33 (twenty-one years ago)

No but Weller only said that to wind up Strummer. I can't imagine Busted saying it to wind up McFly. Shows you how far the game's diminished over the years dunnit?

(that having been said, I strongly suspect that Foxton and Buckler were true blue anyway, and have my doubts about Weller's voting habits now. The giveaway line in interviews is always "all politicians are the same, it's all rubbish" - shorthand for "I vote Tory but I'm afraid to say so 'cos I'll lose all my fans"; see also Sophie Ellix-Bextor)

― Marcello Carlin, Thursday, 7 October 2004 07:37 (twenty-one years ago)

I doubt Weller even votes now. Keep the faith.

― mark grout (mark grout), Thursday, 7 October 2004 07:43 (twenty-one years ago)

Didn't Weller later apologize, though, for his "misguided" (or some word like that) Tory views?

xpost

― Rickey Wright (Rrrickey), Thursday, 7 October 2004 08:01 (twenty-one years ago)

"I've never really thought as punk as specifically left-wing."

I've never really thought of Busted as remotely punk.

― Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Thursday, 7 October 2004 08:01 (twenty-one years ago)

I have, just for fun.

― Alba (Alba), Thursday, 7 October 2004 08:02 (twenty-one years ago)

"Didn't Weller later apologize, though, for his "misguided" (or some word like that) Tory views?"

I don't know about that but he was certainly an active / founder member of "Red Wedge" (along with Billy Bragg and Jimmy Somerville / The Communards) who toured in 1986 to raise money and support for the Labour party.

― Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Thursday, 7 October 2004 08:05 (twenty-one years ago)

And their immense success was reflected in the results of the 1987 General Election.

― Marcello Carlin, Thursday, 7 October 2004 08:11 (twenty-one years ago)

"I have, just for fun."

I can understand that - I sometimes like to think of our cat as being a proud, magnificent predatory creature; cousin of the lion, the tiger, the leopard and the cheetah....

Then he rolls on his back and asks me to tickle his tummy before I open another tin of Kit-E-Kat for him.

― Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Thursday, 7 October 2004 08:12 (twenty-one years ago)

????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

― Marcello Carlin, Thursday, 7 October 2004 08:13 (twenty-one years ago)

Marcello - is it true what you said about Weller's early support for the Tories (and the royal family, I seem to recall) just being a Strummer wind-up? I always thought it was real.

― Alba (Alba), Thursday, 7 October 2004 08:14 (twenty-one years ago)

[x-post]

"I've never really thought of Busted as remotely punk."

-- Stewart Osborne, October 7th, 2004 10:01 AM. (later)

==============

"I have, just for fun."

-- Alba (albab...), October 7th, 2004 10:02 AM. (later)

― Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Thursday, 7 October 2004 08:15 (twenty-one years ago)

(xpost)

Laura interviewed him for her fanzine in '81 and that's what he told her.

― Marcello Carlin, Thursday, 7 October 2004 08:16 (twenty-one years ago)

ex-Lib Dem voter Jay

Wait a minute, how old is he?

― DJ Mencap0))), Thursday, 7 October 2004 08:19 (twenty-one years ago)

Which came first, I wonder: Weller (supposedly) pretending to be a Tory to wind up Strummer or the lyric:
"The new groups are not concerned
With what there is to be learned
They got Burton suits, ha you think it's funny
Turning rebellion into money"?

― Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Thursday, 7 October 2004 08:20 (twenty-one years ago)

Strummer may have been talking about the Pleasers.

― Marcello Carlin, Thursday, 7 October 2004 08:35 (twenty-one years ago)

Who in their right mind from the pop world is likely to come out as pro-Blair at this stage in the game?

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Thursday, 7 October 2004 08:37 (twenty-one years ago)

Ah, the pleasers. Right that's enought about the pleasers.

Stew, did you get the message about the singles at the shop in reading and the Depressions singles?

― mark grout (mark grout), Thursday, 7 October 2004 08:39 (twenty-one years ago)

the more important thing is that they are shite and get talked about far too much on this board anyway

― stelfox, Thursday, 7 October 2004 08:59 (twenty-one years ago)

I did, cheers Mark; haven't been into Reading since (I don't very often to be honest) but I might this w/e - which ones have they got?

I've always uderstood that lyric was about The Jam. Why might Strummer have felt that incensed by / about the Pleasers?

― Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Thursday, 7 October 2004 08:59 (twenty-one years ago)

I think in 1978 everyone could be justified in feeling incensed about/by the Pleasers.

"We want our first single to go to number 17 in the charts 'cos that's the position "Love Me Do" got to."

They would have cleaned up in '95/6.

― Marcello Carlin, Thursday, 7 October 2004 09:05 (twenty-one years ago)

Has any pop/rock related person come out in favour of UKIP yet?

― Robert Moore (treble), Thursday, 7 October 2004 09:07 (twenty-one years ago)

IIRC Max Clifford was trying to enlist Simon Cowell for UKIP, but the word is that Cowell might come out for the Tories instead and compel his stable of cattle, er, pop stars, to do likewise.

― Marcello Carlin, Thursday, 7 October 2004 09:09 (twenty-one years ago)

Is Simon Cowell really the sort of person the Tories want promoting them? Why not just pin a blue rosette on Leslie Grantham and a poisonous serpent and be done with it?

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Thursday, 7 October 2004 09:12 (twenty-one years ago)

yeah cowell was rumoured but nothing came of it. never thought i'd say it but i feel far more benevolent to the the tories (not that i in any way endorse them - obviously like james blount and carmody say, i'm too busy stomping round in jackboots) since the advent of ukip.

― stelfox, Thursday, 7 October 2004 09:13 (twenty-one years ago)

Simon Cowell and Kilroy-Silk .... the other parties must be trembling in their boots

― Robert Moore (treble), Thursday, 7 October 2004 09:14 (twenty-one years ago)

Dido, however, would I suspect be a gigantic PR coup because she has that aura of complete unthreatening niceness. Which, despite his years of loyal service to the party, you can't really say about Jim Davidson.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Thursday, 7 October 2004 09:20 (twenty-one years ago)

I think the UKIPpers have got Geoff Boycott onboard too.

― NickB (NickB), Thursday, 7 October 2004 09:22 (twenty-one years ago)

Dave, Dave, Dave - the Daily Mail, John Redwood, Richard Littlejohn, THE FERRY FAMILY, NEIL AND CHRISTINE HAMILTON...don't be fooled by the veneer of benevolence. Especially when taking Howard's comments on immigration in his speech on Tuesday into account (cf. Thatcher's "swamped by an alien culture" speech in '79 to snatch the undecided away from the NF).

― Marcello Carlin, Thursday, 7 October 2004 09:25 (twenty-one years ago)

OTM

― Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Thursday, 7 October 2004 09:28 (twenty-one years ago)

Is it too late for us to refuse the Howard family residence in the UK?

― NickB (NickB), Thursday, 7 October 2004 09:29 (twenty-one years ago)

I've never really thought as punk as specifically left-wing.

I've never thought of any musical genre at all as neither right-wing nor left-wing. Music itself doesn't take any political side. Lyrics may, but the music doesn't.

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Thursday, 7 October 2004 09:31 (twenty-one years ago)

i'm quite grateful to kilroy silk (another thing i never thought i'd say) who appears to be on a one-man mission to demolish ukip - even moreso than frank maloney. it's quite enjoyable to watch. re the tories, i must stress i do not like them and they will never get my vote in a decade of sundays, it's just that ukip makes them seem less awful.
my problem is that ukip isn't actually dangerous in the sense that it's making the tories appear more cuddly, because it's actually doing quite a bit to wreck the conservative party. it is however a threat in the sense that it could fragment opposition politics so far that fringe extreme-right groups also appear more tenable to people.
i'm a lifelong socialist (despite what blogworld's nutbag contingent might think because i like listening to fennesz on long country walks) but believe that, whoever is in power, a strong, cohesive opposition is healthy. ukip is destroying this and that's why they worry me.

― stelfox, Thursday, 7 October 2004 09:35 (twenty-one years ago)

"we must kill them!" were RKS's actual words re the Tories. i knew he was hardline but...

― Freelance Hiveminder (blueski), Thursday, 7 October 2004 09:37 (twenty-one years ago)

But Britain didn't have a strong cohesive opposition even before UKIP!

It's worth pointing out that the support of Victoria Adams and Geri Halliwell did the Tories no good whatsoever in 1997.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Thursday, 7 October 2004 10:07 (twenty-one years ago)

And I guess the support of Phil Collins wasn't what helped John Mayor win in 1992 either...

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Thursday, 7 October 2004 10:08 (twenty-one years ago)

xpost: Stewart/Marcello - I too always thought that "the new groups are not concerned..." was directed at The Pleasers specifically, and at the early 1978 "Power Pop" movement press hype in general. (Although this may seem baffling to Younger People, The Pleasers were all over the music press for two or three months at least.) Besides, The Jam could hardly be classed as "new groups" - they formed at much the same time as The Clash, and put their first records out within weeks of each other.

As for the Weller=Tory thing, wasn't this as a result of a throwaway "thinking out loud" remark in a 1977 NME Jam interview? Something along the lines of: this Labour govt are so awful that it's enough to make me want to vote Tory. (I could look it up, but can't be arsed to Google. There should be an acronym for it: CBATG.) I can see why an embarrassed 1981 Weller might want to blame it all on Strummer, though...

― mike t-diva (mike t-diva), Thursday, 7 October 2004 10:16 (twenty-one years ago)

(xpost)

John Mayor?

No, what helped John MAJOR win in 1992 was Kinnock making a tit of himself at the Sheffield pre-election rally: "AL-RIIIIGHT!" etc.

― Marcello Carlin, Thursday, 7 October 2004 10:18 (twenty-one years ago)

Major

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Thursday, 7 October 2004 10:19 (twenty-one years ago)

Mick Hucknall on live video link waving his wad about and singing: "I'll give it all up for YOU!"

It was truly embarrassing. No wonder the floating voters floated Right off in the other direction.

― Marcello Carlin, Thursday, 7 October 2004 10:21 (twenty-one years ago)

"The Jam could hardly be classed as "new groups" - they formed at much the same time as The Clash, and put their first records out within weeks of each other."

A week could be an awfully long time in inter-punk-band oneupmanshipist politics.

― Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Thursday, 7 October 2004 10:23 (twenty-one years ago)

One interesting point is that now one could almost imagine somebody supporting Tory just because of the Iraq-war. Although of course it would then be more natural to support the Liberals, as the Tories are mostly behind Blair in his foreign policies anyway.

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Thursday, 7 October 2004 10:25 (twenty-one years ago)

It's worth pointing out that the support of Victoria Adams and Geri Halliwell did the Tories no good whatsoever in 1997.

paul daniels, however...

― stelfox, Thursday, 7 October 2004 10:26 (twenty-one years ago)

As for the Weller=Tory thing, wasn't this as a result of a throwaway "thinking out loud" remark in a 1977 NME Jam interview? Something along the lines of: this Labour govt are so awful that it's enough to make me want to vote Tory.

It was certainly more than that. They reprinted the interview in the early 90s. It was more like "I support the Tories - they stand for what makes Britain great, and I love the Queen mum and all", I seem to recall.

― Alba (Alba), Thursday, 7 October 2004 10:26 (twenty-one years ago)

Skipping 35 messages at this point... Click here if you want to load them all.
That's Amber with the amber hair, Alice halfway in the picture, and thats Charlie, the other one and the other other one out of Busted on the right.

― mark grout (mark grout), Friday, 8 October 2004 07:57 (twenty-one years ago)

Are they marking kids' homework? What a rubbish birthday party.

― Alba (Alba), Friday, 8 October 2004 07:58 (twenty-one years ago)

James is the one with the Touque and Matt is the greasy looking one.

― Danger Whore (kate), Friday, 8 October 2004 08:00 (twenty-one years ago)

What's more likely?

1) Busted have very strong views on economic policy.
2) Busted's management said "Here's a novel way to get lots of coverage in the papers, and it's a lot less humiliating than admitting you got off with Jentina..."

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Friday, 8 October 2004 08:01 (twenty-one years ago)

We spent ages working out who's scribble was whos, until the picture here provided the evidence.

What's a Touque? Alice likes the black haired one best apparently.

― mark grout (mark grout), Friday, 8 October 2004 08:02 (twenty-one years ago)

Toque = Canadian Woolly Hat.

Ooh, the blackhaired one is the badass one. Alice is little rebel! ;-)

Scary as it is, Dom, I suspect you may be right. Even though they may be over the age of 13, I doubt that any of them actually knows what a Tory is. It's an easy way to be controversial.

See also my rants about Artrocker, et al. Those who are aesthetically retrofetishistic in being politically reactionary shockah, etc.

― Danger Whore (kate), Friday, 8 October 2004 08:06 (twenty-one years ago)

Oh yeah it was James' birthday, 21 and that.

Don't they look happy?

― mark grout (mark grout), Friday, 8 October 2004 08:09 (twenty-one years ago)

Matt is the only one whose poltical affiliations remain unclear. Do you think he is some kind of anarchist?

― Alba (Alba), Friday, 8 October 2004 08:12 (twenty-one years ago)

by comparison, certainly.

― mark grout (mark grout), Friday, 8 October 2004 08:13 (twenty-one years ago)

Matt is the one who isn't posh, so who knows what his political affiliations are.

― Danger Whore (kate), Friday, 8 October 2004 08:14 (twenty-one years ago)

Yes, you never know where you are with these pesky commoners.

― Alba (Alba), Friday, 8 October 2004 08:20 (twenty-one years ago)

Aaahhh, it was so much better back when we could hunt peasants with dogs!

― Danger Whore (kate), Friday, 8 October 2004 08:20 (twenty-one years ago)

Are you saying he didn't go to Public School?

In that case he's probably some sort of socialist.

Send him back to Russia with his.... greasy hair and....

― Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Friday, 8 October 2004 08:23 (twenty-one years ago)

Busted are utter, utter rub, and this just makes them moreso.

― Pashmina (Pashmina), Friday, 8 October 2004 08:23 (twenty-one years ago)

He went to stage school, not boarding school.

― Danger Whore (kate), Friday, 8 October 2004 08:25 (twenty-one years ago)

U+K: What political party will Rooster be voting for?

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Friday, 8 October 2004 08:26 (twenty-one years ago)

(x-post)

So you're saying he's a champagne socialist?

Worst kind.

Send 'em all back.

― Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Friday, 8 October 2004 08:26 (twenty-one years ago)

What, meeting my kids? (xpost Pash)

(You could be right. Alice will kick their buts when she gets the hang of an electric guitar....)

― mark grout (mark grout), Friday, 8 October 2004 08:26 (twenty-one years ago)

What I don't understand is... do the Tories think this is going to influence *anyone* of voting age? Other than to vote against them obviously...

― NickB (NickB), Friday, 8 October 2004 08:39 (twenty-one years ago)

Final note from the Guardian article above, helpfully adds:

Useful sites
Busted official site
Conservative party site

― mark grout (mark grout), Friday, 8 October 2004 09:10 (twenty-one years ago)

Why on earth are we thinking that suddenly the Tories have decided to get Busted on ship, Nick?! Why not just use the simpler explanation that a fair amount of common opinion is now turning back against Labour (hur hur don't you mean "America" sez every fith former on their first copy of the Socialist Worker) and Busted taking the "reactionary" "rebellious" line say whatever they think might court some controversy which is turning to the Tories cos at least they recognise what they stand for (money grubbing twattishness)! A band associating themselves with Labour right now = another D:Ream?! Another Oasis? Perhaps this is the only way Busted could genuinely show people some actual snottiness rather than the cartoon stuff...

Which is a shame, because cartoons are ACE.

Come to think of it, in the Crash The Wedding, the one dressed up as a chick DID look rather like Maggie...

Argh! I have now worried myself thinking of this as the pivotal sea-change moment when it becomes acceptable to think of the Tories as an alternative again, argh!

― Starry (hello chickens), Friday, 8 October 2004 09:13 (twenty-one years ago)

(x-post)

But does the Busted official site have a link to the Conservative party site or indeed vice versa?

[has vision of Conservative Party site containing pictures and bios of leading Party members with "interesting" biographical details e.g. favourite colour, most hated subject at school, favourite pop bands....]

― Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Friday, 8 October 2004 09:16 (twenty-one years ago)

Sorry Starry, the fact that Busted are somehow rebellious just totally went over my head.

― NickB (NickB), Friday, 8 October 2004 09:18 (twenty-one years ago)

(xpost to starry)

Yeah, but the article was much more "I've always been a conservative" and/or also "now I have some money, I'm going to keep it and vote for low taxation now" which is a bit more specific than "the government do nothing for the youth" of yore...

― mark grout (mark grout), Friday, 8 October 2004 09:19 (twenty-one years ago)

Busted should just come right out with it and admit their affiliation to the British Movement.

― Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Friday, 8 October 2004 09:19 (twenty-one years ago)

How's Mark going to feel in a few years time when he's forced to admit that he took his impressionable young daughters to meet their idols in the 00's equivalent of Skrewdriver?

― Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Friday, 8 October 2004 09:21 (twenty-one years ago)

Tory HQ didn't actually approach Busted for their ringing endorsement, did they? Did Charlie just start spouting off in an interview which the Tories then jumped on the back of? It seems to me an important distinction to make.

I suspect Charlie's conservatism has less to do with posture and more to do with the fact that his parents vote Tory like all young conservatives.

Also why are we assuming that Charlie doesn't understand, or is too young to comprehend, what the Tories actually did? Maybe he knows full well and approves?

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Friday, 8 October 2004 09:22 (twenty-one years ago)

Can we talk about how hot that 16 year old at the Tory Conference the other day was?

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Friday, 8 October 2004 09:24 (twenty-one years ago)

Busted are old enough to vote.

Their fans, however....


(xpost: no. )

― mark grout (mark grout), Friday, 8 October 2004 09:25 (twenty-one years ago)

Dom, I'm genuinely worried about you now. She had the worst hair ever!

Why do Tories have the worst hair and the worst stylists? Is that what's gone wrong with Charlie, then?

― Danger Whore (kate), Friday, 8 October 2004 09:26 (twenty-one years ago)

She looked like Charlotte Church without a stylist.

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Friday, 8 October 2004 09:27 (twenty-one years ago)

Apparently she's actually using the same PR guy as Charlotte Church (this is TRUE!) so the stylist will probably be next.

― Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Friday, 8 October 2004 09:28 (twenty-one years ago)

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/40143000/jpg/_40143440_jessica203pa.jpg

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Friday, 8 October 2004 09:30 (twenty-one years ago)

What I want to know 'though is: is Daniel Beddingfield a committed Marxist and are the members of Blue radical anarchists?

― Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Friday, 8 October 2004 09:31 (twenty-one years ago)

Yes, this is the one who's Milton Friedman's great-niece, innit?

― suzy (suzy), Friday, 8 October 2004 09:34 (twenty-one years ago)

Starry and Matt DC bringing some much needed sense to this discussion.

― Alba (Alba), Friday, 8 October 2004 09:34 (twenty-one years ago)

posturing unintelligent tripe.

ON THIS THREAD I MEAN

ha ha ha ha ha ha

(xpost, oops, not you N)

― Jaunty Alan (Alan), Friday, 8 October 2004 09:36 (twenty-one years ago)

Dude. It is Busted. And the Tories. There is no sense to be found.

― Danger Whore (kate), Friday, 8 October 2004 09:36 (twenty-one years ago)

Yes, this is the one who's Milton Friedman's great-niece, innit?

-- suzy (theartskooldisk...) (webmail), October 8th, 2004. (link)

She looks more like Dean Friedman's.
http://ubl.artistdirect.com/Images/Sources/AMGCOVERS/music/cover200/drg000/g010/g01060hpqhn.jpg

― mark grout (mark grout), Friday, 8 October 2004 09:50 (twenty-one years ago)

Dean Friedman used to be on the L0ll1es email list. Nice guy. (Didn't know about the hair, though.)

― Danger Whore (kate), Friday, 8 October 2004 09:51 (twenty-one years ago)

Kate, if you haven't seen this, see it now!
http://cobweb.businesscollaborator.com/hmhb/guest/2003/030808edinburgh/Friedman.html

― mark grout (mark grout), Friday, 8 October 2004 09:54 (twenty-one years ago)

Dean Friedman used to be on the L0ll1es email list

Wow - that clears up something I meant to ask about. Ally C and RJG are big Dean fans, and apparently on one of his recent albums, he lists the L0ll1es in the acknowledgements.

― Alba (Alba), Friday, 8 October 2004 10:07 (twenty-one years ago)

What? Are you making that up?

― Danger Whore (kate), Friday, 8 October 2004 10:08 (twenty-one years ago)

No! Ally C mentioned it to me.

― Alba (Alba), Friday, 8 October 2004 10:09 (twenty-one years ago)

Wow, that was really nice of him!

― Danger Whore (kate), Friday, 8 October 2004 10:11 (twenty-one years ago)

I'll ask Ally to remind me which record it was.

― Alba (Alba), Friday, 8 October 2004 10:12 (twenty-one years ago)

Off the original 'one out, one in' thread...

I wanted to replace the lollies w/ dean friedman because he mentions them on his website: 'The Lollies. Fun, appealing and talented 4 piece girl-band out of the UK with stylish website and cool tunes like 'I Found Myself at the Supermarket' and '(Be My) Bad Boyfriend'. Check out their MP3's and try to catch one of their UK gigs.' which is fucking funny.

― mark grout (mark grout), Friday, 8 October 2004 10:26 (twenty-one years ago)

http://www.deanfriedman.com/links/links_dean.html

― mark grout (mark grout), Friday, 8 October 2004 10:28 (twenty-one years ago)

MAYBE, right, the boys in Busted are just THICK AS TWO SHORT PLANKS and THOUGHT THEY WERE BEING FUNNY.

Dudes, these shitboxes don't vote. They're idiots.

― Jack The Bodiless, Friday, 8 October 2004 15:56 (twenty-one years ago)

three years pass...

Two original members of Busted have lost their £10m royalties battle.

In a statement after winning the case, ex-Busted members James Bourne and Matt Willis said: "This was an opportunistic attempt by Doyle and McPhail to cash in on our success.

"Our position has been completely vindicated and our achievements with Busted remain untarnished."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/hi/music/newsid_7439000/7439725.stm

― James Mitchell, Friday, 6 June 2008 12:48 (seventeen years ago)


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