VH1's "30 Years of Hip Hop"

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is this the first TV documentary miniseries aimed at canonizing hip-hop? I can't remember ever seeing anything try to be this comprehensive.

― Shakey Mo Collier, Friday, 8 October 2004 20:38 (twenty-one years ago)

MTV and MTV2 have been doing similar things for years. Yawn.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Friday, 8 October 2004 20:46 (twenty-one years ago)

huh. must just be me then, since I just got cable for the first time.

― Shakey Mo Collier, Friday, 8 October 2004 20:47 (twenty-one years ago)

Alex is just being cynical. It definitely seems more comprehensive than anything else I've seen on TV.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Friday, 8 October 2004 20:49 (twenty-one years ago)

No I'm not being cynical. MTV2 are constantly counting down the 22 greatest MC's etc.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Friday, 8 October 2004 20:52 (twenty-one years ago)

Yeah, but that's a LITTLE different that doing a complete history of hip-hop from Kool DJ Herc to Lil Jon!

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Friday, 8 October 2004 20:53 (twenty-one years ago)

Well, the idea is still the same re: canonnization. I'm not knocking it, but I don't think it's a particularly new idea.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Friday, 8 October 2004 20:54 (twenty-one years ago)

I think execution matters a "little", but I suppose the underlying impulse is similar.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Friday, 8 October 2004 20:57 (twenty-one years ago)

they have tried to map out a definite chronology, tho some of the things they've excluded are kinda head-scratching (the entirety of Native Tongues, for example - not to mention various non-NY local scenes like Miami, the Bay Area)

― Shakey Mo Collier, Friday, 8 October 2004 21:00 (twenty-one years ago)

Yeah i got the feeling that the underlying message is that post east-west rivalry, OTHER places started making music...it makes sense for their narrative but isn't really true. And even with west coast, it ALWAYS begins w/ NWA.

― djdee2005 (djdee2005), Friday, 8 October 2004 21:05 (twenty-one years ago)

Native Tongues is excluded? But they're on their little flash website? As are BLACK MOON!

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Friday, 8 October 2004 21:05 (twenty-one years ago)

Haha Alex I think I gave a pretty high ranking for your black moon nomination in the 90s poll!

― djdee2005 (djdee2005), Friday, 8 October 2004 21:06 (twenty-one years ago)

it's the first one that's halfway serious/diligent. At least it's not one more fucking Sugarhill>Message>BeastieBoys>Walk this Way>NWA... narrative MTV-style docs have been choking us with the last 10 years. There's plenty of rushing/skipping but I'm pleasantly surprised overall, and I've only seen the first one.

― tremendoidmandel, Friday, 8 October 2004 21:06 (twenty-one years ago)

Didn't Ice-T predate NWA?

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Friday, 8 October 2004 21:06 (twenty-one years ago)

Haha it's funny, dee, cuz I was kind of upset that I didn't nominate for Main Source and Organized Konfusion by the time the process ended. I thought for SURE someone else would pick them so I figured I would pick two albums I really loved, but which probably wouldn't get picked by anyone.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Friday, 8 October 2004 21:08 (twenty-one years ago)

Yes, Alex, but the World Class Wreckin Cru predates them both!

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Friday, 8 October 2004 21:09 (twenty-one years ago)

it's possible they're saving that stuff for the last installment ("Hip Hop America"), maybe coming back to it as evidence of hip-hop's diversity - but they breezed through the late 80s/early 90s with nary a mention of Schooly D, Kool G Rap, Gang Starr (!!!), De La, Tribe, Brand Nubian, Prince Paul, the Jungle Brothers, Digital Underground, Too $hort, 2 Live Crew (!!!!), Cypress Hill, House of Pain... it was really weird.

On the other hand, I can see how they've tried to shoehorn rap's history into their familiar "Behind the Music" story arc (innocent beginnings, followed by creative apex, downfall of greed/violence/drugs, followed by spiritual rebirth/redemption/vindication). Total bullshit historically, but works as television drama.

― Shakey Mo Collier, Friday, 8 October 2004 21:10 (twenty-one years ago)

that being said I think the first and second installments were the best - once they hit gangsta and the East vs. West thing it gets pretty stupid and narrow.

― Shakey Mo Collier, Friday, 8 October 2004 21:11 (twenty-one years ago)

Also no Digable Planets, or Roots, or Main Source, or Freestyle Fellowship, and just a 2-second clip of the Pharcyde...

― Shakey Mo Collier, Friday, 8 October 2004 21:21 (twenty-one years ago)

I feel i should recommend the Dirty States of America dvd at this point. They were showing part of it on mtv2 a few weeks ago and Serg talks about it here.

― djdee2005 (djdee2005), Friday, 8 October 2004 21:25 (twenty-one years ago)

Also early west coast: Egytian Lover, Bobby Jimmy (I think?), Toddy Tee (Batteram is early classik)....maybe Rodney O. and Joe Cooley (I think they are more like the Run DMC time period?)...was Uncle Jamm's Army a rap group or just more of a party/DJ collective thing?

― M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Friday, 8 October 2004 21:27 (twenty-one years ago)

Cross your fingers that they at least mention 8ball and mjg and UGK.

― djdee2005 (djdee2005), Friday, 8 October 2004 21:28 (twenty-one years ago)

If they didn't mention Schooly D (as someone suggested) that would be a shame.

What about Master P? I'm not that well versed in Southern Rap history but wasn't he pretty influential in making southern stuff mainstream?

― M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Friday, 8 October 2004 21:31 (twenty-one years ago)

Yeah and I hope they mention cash money in more depth than "bling bling rap"

― djdee2005 (djdee2005), Friday, 8 October 2004 21:33 (twenty-one years ago)

i wouldn't hold your breath.

― M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Friday, 8 October 2004 21:46 (twenty-one years ago)

Christ almighty are the Beastie Boys OLD.

― My name is Kenny (My name is Kenny), Friday, 8 October 2004 21:47 (twenty-one years ago)

Anybody see the doc about freestylers they showed after the main retrospective thingee? I couldn't believe I was watching VHfucking1. Only caught the last 20 minutes or so, but they had Juice freestlying in his car, and footage of infamous battles.

― oops (Oops), Friday, 8 October 2004 22:33 (twenty-one years ago)

It's missing a lot (even with five hours, it's not even close to enough), but what's there is fabulous. So far I like the first episode the best.

Also, watching the two Alexes fight it out in this thread is fucking surreal.

― The Good Dr. Bill (Andrew Unterberger), Friday, 8 October 2004 22:57 (twenty-one years ago)

Alex vs Alex Battle!

No Doubt "It's My Life" is better than the original!

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Friday, 8 October 2004 23:52 (twenty-one years ago)

I love that little .gif.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Friday, 8 October 2004 23:54 (twenty-one years ago)

The first episode was really good. The second one was okay, but you could already see the fucked-up MTV/VH1 master narrative getting cemented into place. Then they started in on fucking Biggie and fucking Tupac, and it was nothing but shit shit shit for the next three nights.

(They didn't mention Schoolly D, but during a long segment about crack's impact on the ghetto in, I believe, episode 2, they used one of his beats as the soundtrack, and that was pretty cool; incredible how menacing his stuff still sounds after all these years.)

― pdf (Phil Freeman), Saturday, 9 October 2004 15:55 (twenty-one years ago)

man, those crazy saturday nights.

― djdee2005 (djdee2005), Saturday, 9 October 2004 17:17 (twenty-one years ago)

pdf is OTM, as you frequent message-board users say.

― Nowell, Saturday, 9 October 2004 18:51 (twenty-one years ago)

the first two episodes are the best ones, the rest are pretty half assed and fall apart.

this is the defjam version of hiphop history and its overlooking a lot of shit but I guess that's expected since those dudes made the fucking thing but their version of westcoast/gangsta music only about the circle of those involved with NWA with ice t being the exception but only because he's doing commentary.

if your interested in the south check out dirty states, its does a much better job because they talk to a lot of people and get a shitload of stories and talk about a variety of styles not just what is popular at the moment.

― SergDun (SergDun), Sunday, 10 October 2004 00:58 (twenty-one years ago)

I concur.

― Nowell, Sunday, 10 October 2004 01:03 (twenty-one years ago)

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