helmut lachenmann c/d; s/d

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so. supposed creator of "instrumental musique concrète," "anti-composer" and so on and so on and so on.

i've heard very little and i'm not entirely sure what to believe. what are your thoughts, if any?

you will be shot (you will be shot), Monday, 11 October 2004 18:45 (twenty-one years ago)

I've found one particularly astounding record so far. Hasn't been released on CD yet: The label/serial is Editions RZ 1003, and it compiles:

GUERO für Klavier; PRESSION für Violincello solo; GRAN TORSO für Streichquartett

Beautifully abstract, all traditional instrumental sounds eschewed, the lessons of musique concrete making inroads into live performance with classical instrumentation. Huge dynamic range, very intimate, and the way the tiny sounds somehow hang together & move forward is pretty electrifying. Fans of early experimental industrial music might like this.

There are other recordings of these pieces available on disc, but all of these pieces lined up in a row makes a huge impact.

I've bought two discs containing more recent material: one was the ECM recording of Schwankungen Am Rand, the other was several pieces from the 80's. Sounds like typical modernism with traditional orchestral textures, and it didn't grab me.

I've seen Salut für Caldwell for two guitars in live performance; lots of precision strumming & plucked off kilter rhythms with fantastic attention to the overtones. It was fantastic, want to get a copy of that someday.

(Jon L), Monday, 11 October 2004 19:10 (twenty-one years ago)

The Edition RZ is a really fantastic record and (if I can remember correctly) many of the pieces are performed by Lachenmann himself.

I would also recommend the releases on Col Legno as I think they have something like 6 cds of his work. My personal favorite is the Piano Pieces performed by Roland Keller with Ein Kinderspiel and Guero (obviously a big influence on me personally).

I think the most astounding thing about any of the pieces is that for being very theoretically driven music (he uses the term "renunciation" to describe the compositional process for some of the pieces from the 60s as in the renunciation of traditional performance, listening, etc.), they are all very listenable. The emphasis on texture and the timbres buried within an instument really yield up results that are actually beautiful at times as opposed to a pieces of music that feels like the result of an exercise.

William Selman, Monday, 11 October 2004 19:57 (twenty-one years ago)

edition RZ is pretty great isn't it? I picked this CD from that label last week.

the best way to cook fish is not to cook it

Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Monday, 11 October 2004 21:25 (twenty-one years ago)

hey william, you sourced all those piano sounds yourself, right? are there _any_ lachenmann samples on your record?

(Jon L), Monday, 11 October 2004 22:06 (twenty-one years ago)

hey william, you sourced all those piano sounds yourself, right? are there _any_ lachenmann samples on your record?
There might be a few ticks or scrapes that I really liked and borrowed, but 95% of the sounds were made from my own piano recordings. An example. They were meant to be used purely as raw source material and not be my interpretations of "guero."

William Selman, Tuesday, 12 October 2004 01:24 (twenty-one years ago)

I have "Nun"/ "Notturno (Musik für Julia)" and "Allegro sostenuto"/ "Serynade", both on Kairos label. Don't think I've given these Cds sufficient attention to comment on them - I'll get round to it eventually.

Derridadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 12 October 2004 09:52 (twenty-one years ago)

three weeks pass...
revive! I got hold of his 'opera' (it doesn't sound very grandiose so I decided that its a musical play) 'das madchen mit...' 2 CD set on the kairos label - two hours, and I can almost see the 'anti-composer', as in he doesn't develop and arrive at riffs with conventional instruments but almost (and I said almost) takes a basic, primal sound that the instruments can make and combines with others and puts everything together so well - a concrete like precision, even, (also reminds me of webern) - much of this goes back to milton's comments.

everyone needs to hear this...

Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Thursday, 4 November 2004 20:50 (twenty years ago)

I sure do

(Jon L), Thursday, 4 November 2004 22:35 (twenty years ago)

I hate opera unfortunately

Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 5 November 2004 10:09 (twenty years ago)

There is v little in terms of actual 'operatic' vocals, a text is recited, but also he actually applies his method of almost breaking apart each instrument and does that with the vocals too.

Ok I've only heard operas when they've been shown on TV (and never stuck with it for long) but it sounds very different.

Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Friday, 5 November 2004 10:15 (twenty years ago)

That's OK, I didn't imagine he would have written a straightforward opera anyway. It's the operatic vocal style I really detest tho.

Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 5 November 2004 10:27 (twenty years ago)

three weeks pass...
Eventually got round to listening to "NUN"/ "Notturno (Musik für Julia)" a little more diligently. These are both excellent - especially "NUN", which is from the 90s and makes me glad that there are still modernists out there and it's not all John Fucking Tavener and Arvo Part. Kairos is a great record company.

We Buy a Hammer For Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 30 November 2004 11:15 (twenty years ago)

I'm at the point where I buy composers I've never heard of if they're on Kairos... not always spellbound, but never bored.

(Jon L), Tuesday, 30 November 2004 19:36 (twenty years ago)

They focus on central europe 'modernists' and they do back any musical theatre (or opera-type) projects too.

Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Tuesday, 30 November 2004 20:08 (twenty years ago)

it's they who got my favorite Scelsi disc

(Jon L), Tuesday, 30 November 2004 20:10 (twenty years ago)

Whereas I've got this, which appears to have some of the same tracks

We Buy a Hammer For Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 30 November 2004 20:12 (twenty years ago)

'okanagon' will be played at my funeral.

Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Tuesday, 30 November 2004 20:15 (twenty years ago)

Whereas I've got this, which appears to have some of the same tracks

What am I on about, it doesn't!

We Buy a Hammer For Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 30 November 2004 20:17 (twenty years ago)

yes that one seems like a 100% different companion disc. both Zender though.

Zender also has a good Feldman, the audience coughs & shuffles actually add something...

ok Lachenmann > Scelsi > Zender > Feldman, we only have two associations left to reach Skynryd.

(Jon L), Tuesday, 30 November 2004 20:21 (twenty years ago)

Have you stolen my CD collection or something?

We Buy a Hammer For Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 30 November 2004 20:22 (twenty years ago)

no, this music is just insanely popular, that's all.

(Jon L), Tuesday, 30 November 2004 20:30 (twenty years ago)

four months pass...
http://members.shaw.ca/steenhuisen/lachenmann.htm

belated thanks for Julio for those CDRs of 'das madchen mit...' (which I simply passed on to Drew after buying a copy for myself, I was hoping he'd explain the methodology behind and perhaps list the samples of orchestral music in the liner notes -- and he did!) fragmented, delirious, ten thousand magnets

milton parker (Jon L), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 23:02 (twenty years ago)

yay!! I'll read that interview later...I am going to see a performance of a cpl of lahenmann's compositions (one dumitrescu too) on the 13th.

I know there's a 2 CD set (ECM) of 'das madchen...', if i see it second hand I'd be tempted to snap it up...hope drew liked this.

Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Thursday, 7 April 2005 10:03 (twenty years ago)

Where is this performance?

Dadrock, Meshach and Abednego (Dada), Thursday, 7 April 2005 10:16 (twenty years ago)

On the CD I mentioned above, "Notturno" is excellent too

Dadrock, Meshach and Abednego (Dada), Thursday, 7 April 2005 10:19 (twenty years ago)

details as posted on the dumitrescu thread:

Wednesday 13 April 2005
7.30pm, Jerwood Hall, LSO St Luke's, London
BBC Radio 3 Invitation Concert

Helmut Lachenmann: Mouvement vor der Erstarrung
Helmut Lachenmann: '...zwei Gefühle...', Musik mit Leonardo
Luke Stoneham: Hip to Easter Island
Stefano Gervasoni: Antiterra
Iancu Dumitrescu: Au delà de Movemur (II) world premiere

***Free tickets*** available from 020 8576 1227 or radio.ticket.unit@bbc.co.uk
More info

Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Thursday, 7 April 2005 10:22 (twenty years ago)

Fuck fuck fuck! I'm in Glasgow!!!!!!!!! Fucking free tickets too! Damn it and blast it to blue buggering hell!

Dadrock, Meshach and Abednego (Dada), Thursday, 7 April 2005 10:23 (twenty years ago)

If it's any commiseration, I guess that the rest of us will be able to tune in our trannies for this.

NickB (NickB), Thursday, 7 April 2005 10:35 (twenty years ago)

I believe they have wireless sets in Glasgow too - well, some homes do

Dadrock, Meshach and Abednego (Dada), Thursday, 7 April 2005 10:39 (twenty years ago)

its broadcast on the 18th june, btw.

lachenmann was there himself to speak the text for '...zwei Gefühle...'. I had not realized before how much sound ('sound poetry') the instrumentalists of the orchestra actually have to recite. the dumitrescu was new, its for 7-8 strings players and it's an extension of the work he's done with grillo. wasn't bad but felt underwhelmed at the end of it.

Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Thursday, 14 April 2005 07:32 (twenty years ago)

four months pass...
Anyone heard clemens gedenstatter (who ws lachenmann's student)? got hold of 'polyskopie' for small orchestra and while I'm not feeling it so much when the whole mass is summoned up i can see the light when fragmented and recombined - and no, it doesn't sound like lachenmann. still making my way through that one but in the meantime just wondering if anyone got hold of his 'comic sense' disc on kairos.

Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Tuesday, 6 September 2005 18:38 (twenty years ago)

two months pass...
Listening to gadenstatter's str quartet late last night - excellent but its inevitable how these things fade away in the light of day so I can't say much more.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/filmandmusic/story/0,16373,1649608,00.html

And look at this bit:For Nono, every note had to have a political and structural purpose. It was a gruelling apprenticeship. "I never dared to write a trill," Lachenmann recalls. "If I wrote two notes together, Nono would say, 'This is a melodic cell', or he would demand, 'Where is your political standpoint?'"

And yet, his music has many thrills.

Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Friday, 25 November 2005 11:35 (nineteen years ago)

three months pass...
http://www.whitechapel.org/content.php?page_id=2332

aargh Niblock/lachenamnn for the ppl of landaaan town - just saw this, go if i don't.

Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Friday, 3 March 2006 16:33 (nineteen years ago)

Oooh, I can't!

Rotatey Diskers With Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 3 March 2006 16:38 (nineteen years ago)

nor could I -- gd thing I stayed in as i'm a bit fluey now.

gah damn my lame-ness.

Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Saturday, 4 March 2006 16:02 (nineteen years ago)

eleven months pass...
So I thought to link to this thread old discussion of Lachenmann's music/ideas, and where he stands in relation to other composers and the tradition.

The starting point was the mini-fest that was staged in London late last year.

xyzzzz__, Wednesday, 28 February 2007 21:55 (eighteen years ago)

ha ha WHAT THE HELL

lachenmann for beginners

did you go to any of those shows julio?

I dragged Das Mädchen mit den Schwefelhölzern off the shelf for dleone a few weeks ago and haven't put it back yet, I loved it when I got it but this and the col legno discs have moved into heavy rotation for the last three weeks.

& my review upthread of that Editions RZ disc stands, if you're into P.16.D4 & Tietchens & abstract industrial, that record's waiting for you

Milton Parker, Wednesday, 28 February 2007 22:31 (eighteen years ago)

Yeah, that Lachenmann for Beginners is really annoying. Would have been better if they'd actually got Trey Parker and Matt Stone to animate it.

I went to one of the shows - Kontrakadenz and Ausklang. Really really excellent, Kontrakadenz in particular one of the best things I saw last year.

Tim R-J, Thursday, 1 March 2007 09:36 (eighteen years ago)

Have you stolen my CD collection or something?

We Buy a Hammer For Dadaismus (Dada) on Tuesday, 30 November 2004 20:22 (2 years ago)

no, this music is just insanely popular, that's all.

(Jon L) on Tuesday, 30 November 2004 20:30 (2 years ago)


This makes me laugh every time this thread is revived!

Tim R-J, Thursday, 1 March 2007 09:37 (eighteen years ago)

"did you go to any of those shows julio?"

nah, I ws being lame again.

"ha ha WHAT THE HELL"

Really opens up a whole bunch of issues wrt 'selling' this music, innit?

xyzzzz__, Thursday, 1 March 2007 09:47 (eighteen years ago)

I went to the chat/interview, two of the free concerts and Kontrakadenz/Ausklang - really an amazing series of concerts, I wish this sort of thing happened more often

Tom D., Friday, 2 March 2007 11:25 (eighteen years ago)

one year passes...

Really nice article!

xyzzzz__, Saturday, 12 April 2008 19:50 (seventeen years ago)

http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/news/music/la-et-helmut16apr16,1,7550763.story

& another

Transbay New Music Calendar is publishing a two part review of his lecture & concert at Mills last January, sadly not online

Milton Parker, Wednesday, 16 April 2008 19:45 (seventeen years ago)

I like it except what 'he brings' isn't some vague 'sense of quest' -- that is the bare requirement -- but that he goes maybe further than most in trying to incorporate this stuff into a traditional frame. Like all the best experimental composers (Spahlinger, Schnebel, Bauckholt, etc) this is what makes them a more powerful proposition in that they're also harder to ignore.

His "just try to like it" is still funny...I'm going to say this every time someone boringly complains about classical music.

xyzzzz__, Saturday, 19 April 2008 10:45 (seventeen years ago)

two years pass...

Helmut Lachenmann Weekend - Fun For All the Family!

Tom A. (Tom B.) (Tom C.) (Tom D.), Friday, 1 October 2010 09:28 (fifteen years ago)

Great! Will look to go along to the chamber music recital

xyzzzz__, Saturday, 2 October 2010 19:48 (fifteen years ago)

six years pass...

https://van-us.atavist.com/lachenmann

Milton Parker, Wednesday, 12 October 2016 00:18 (nine years ago)

that was a fucking great interview. Lachenmann super OTM in numerous passages.

He has been on my to-do list for several years; i guess I was waiting for the right album to turn up in the used bin/on emusic/on some blog as the right entry port.

look at the morning people (Jon not Jon), Wednesday, 12 October 2016 17:58 (nine years ago)

https://www.discogs.com/Helmut-Lachenmann-Gran-Torso-Guero-Pression/release/554364
https://www.discogs.com/Helmut-Lachenmann-Das-Mädchen-Mit-Den-Schwefelhölzern/release/2278061

Milton Parker, Wednesday, 12 October 2016 18:23 (nine years ago)


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