How does stuff get 'leaked' before release?

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Who usually does it? Studio engineers? How many people get copies of the stuff while it's still being recorded anyway, and wouldn't it be relatively easy to track down the leaker? I mean, if they're upset about it. Or are leaks usually on purpose?

dave q, Wednesday, 13 October 2004 15:19 (twenty years ago)

i always figured it was label employees, who got access to an early copy or burn. i guess it depends on how early the leak is, though - if it's a month early, that's probably the case. if it's several months early, and an unfinished mix, then its probably an engineer...

peter smith (plsmith), Wednesday, 13 October 2004 15:25 (twenty years ago)

The same label employees whose jobs are apparently disappearing as a result, tho?

dave q, Wednesday, 13 October 2004 15:33 (twenty years ago)

blame labor for the decadence of the gentry why don't you

Loose Translation: Sexy Dancer (sexyDancer), Wednesday, 13 October 2004 15:39 (twenty years ago)

One of two scenarios:

1. "planned" leak to build hype & get the artist talked about again
2. a label employee gets an advance, gives it to a friend or relative, who then wants to show off her/his status to various and sundry, and they shared with two friends, and they shared with two friends, and so on, and so on.

Joseph McCombs (Joseph McCombs), Wednesday, 13 October 2004 15:45 (twenty years ago)

Review copies?

Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Wednesday, 13 October 2004 16:49 (twenty years ago)

yeah, i always had a feeling that it was from review copies.. but truly, when a writer gets a disc, his/her desire to share it with the world, at least i find, is pretty slim. like, when i get an advance, i may play it around my office and let co-workers listen to it, but i've never been like, 'man, i gotta get this sucker out on the web!' so, i guess i have no good info in this case..haha

ken taylrr (ken taylrr), Wednesday, 13 October 2004 17:01 (twenty years ago)

but reviewers are but one of many groups that get those advances. radio stations get 'em. lots of employees of the company get 'em. sundry others. how come everyone's always so quick to finger critics?

fact checking cuz (fcc), Wednesday, 13 October 2004 17:06 (twenty years ago)

well, i'm only fingering critics cuz i am one kinda (i consider myself more a writer than critic, if it comes down to harsh terminology) but yeah, definitely radio folks have equal opportunity to commit such crazy acts. the idea that company folks would do it--not to say that they don't necessarily--seems a bit flawed only in that they've gotta know they'd be cutting their own throats, right?

ken taylrr (ken taylrr), Wednesday, 13 October 2004 17:10 (twenty years ago)

I'm wondering why labels keep sending out advance copies if they don't want it out on the web. Why not just put out discs with just half the songs? Maybe the single in full? Obviously they want it out there.

Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Wednesday, 13 October 2004 17:12 (twenty years ago)

the idea that company folks would do it--not to say that they don't necessarily--seems a bit flawed only in that they've gotta know they'd be cutting their own throats, right?

you think some dude in the mailroom or some assistant in the graphics department thinks to him/herself as he/she is uploading the new eminem album, "shit, if i leak this cd on the internet, that's going to hurt the company economically, and then they'll have to tighten their belts, and i might get laid off"? i think not.

fact checking cuz (fcc), Wednesday, 13 October 2004 17:14 (twenty years ago)

There are all those "groups" that seem to take pride in being the first to release new files. Read the .nfo files that are sometimes included in the folders. Some of them read like Oscar acceptance speeches!

Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Wednesday, 13 October 2004 17:18 (twenty years ago)

you think some dude in the mailroom or some assistant in the graphics department thinks to him/herself as he/she is uploading the new eminem album, "shit, if i leak this cd on the internet, that's going to hurt the company economically, and then they'll have to tighten their belts, and i might get laid off"? i think not.

fair enough, but are companies really that loose with the new masters they've got kickin' around? i guess i just wanna know--cuz in all fairness i have no idea--is it really that easy for the mailroom guy to get his hands on the stuff?

ken taylrr (ken taylrr), Wednesday, 13 October 2004 17:23 (twenty years ago)

I'm wondering why labels keep sending out advance copies if they don't want it out on the web. Why not just put out discs with just half the songs? Maybe the single in full? Obviously they want it out there.

... some recent advances that i've received that i just cannot play on my computer without the thing getting spit out immediately: Hope of the States, Le Tigre...

ken taylrr (ken taylrr), Wednesday, 13 October 2004 17:24 (twenty years ago)

Those same groups are the ones who can't tell one side of vinyl from another. Hence, dance singles are often mislabeled.

Michael F Gill (Michael F Gill), Wednesday, 13 October 2004 17:25 (twenty years ago)

xpost to spencer

Michael F Gill (Michael F Gill), Wednesday, 13 October 2004 17:25 (twenty years ago)

that's not to say that there just isn't a way to play 'em. i'm pretty dumb when it comes to new technology.. just saying that *I* can't play em

ken taylrr (ken taylrr), Wednesday, 13 October 2004 17:25 (twenty years ago)

Also, I hear a lot of promos are getting watermarked nowadays.

Michael F Gill (Michael F Gill), Wednesday, 13 October 2004 17:26 (twenty years ago)

>I'm wondering why labels keep sending out advance copies if they don't want it out on the web. Why not just put out discs with just half the songs?<

They do that already. Also advance discs with "snippets" of songs, and advance discs with annoying interruptions in the songs every minute telling you the disc is the property of So-and-So and copying it is illegal, etc. All of which options are completely fucking useless from a reviewing perspective. I generally refuse to listen to them, and I hope I'm not the only one. (Even lamer is the "invite reviewer down to record company office to listen to advance in completely antiseptic artificial environment" option, obviously.)

chuck, Wednesday, 13 October 2004 17:28 (twenty years ago)

yeah, which is also kinda silly cuz even if i get a promo that's watermarked with 'ken taylor's info', i can't possibly be held responsible for first, accepting delivery of the hard copy disc to my apartment and then two, being the dude that puts it up on the web. anybody can intercept my mail (a small portion of my packages never reach my mailbox) and put that shit up if they wanted to. not saying it's likely, but it raises a slew of legal issues.

ken taylrr (ken taylrr), Wednesday, 13 October 2004 17:28 (twenty years ago)

I usually just crack personally watermarked ones in half, and toss them in the garbage.

chuck, Wednesday, 13 October 2004 17:30 (twenty years ago)

xpost
Yeah, I remember this with an RJD2 album a few years ago (annoying robot voice announcing "promo" or something all over the song. Junior Boys extended loop too.

Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Wednesday, 13 October 2004 17:30 (twenty years ago)

in response to chuck, yeah, we get tons of embedded piracy warnings.. Def Jux does this with every album, and it makes it really fucking hard and annoying to listen to, nevermind review, a disc. i've made the blanket decision to NOT review anything from Def Jux because of it. regardless of the fact that ppl do leak shit, it's still a bit insulting to get pieces of a record and then be expected to review it.

ken taylrr (ken taylrr), Wednesday, 13 October 2004 17:30 (twenty years ago)

man, i'm basically repeating everything that chuck says here....haha. guess i should read these posts before i post my own. duh.

ken taylrr (ken taylrr), Wednesday, 13 October 2004 17:32 (twenty years ago)

is it really that easy for the mailroom guy to get his hands on the stuff

maybe not a secret-service-protected u2 or jay-z album, but a typical hit album, i think yeah. i don't work at a label so i can't give you an inside scoop, but it's pretty clear to me that that's one of the basic perks of working at one. which is really not at all surprising.

fact checking cuz (fcc), Wednesday, 13 October 2004 17:34 (twenty years ago)

all promos should have the same voice-over that's used for dj technics' baltimore club tracks - "this is a club tracks exclusive" in a boomy screwed/chopped style.

peter smith (plsmith), Wednesday, 13 October 2004 17:36 (twenty years ago)

And then there are the possibly even more evil advance CDs from Relapse Records, expressly designed to destroy your computer, as George Smith describes in this Dillinger Escape Plan review:

http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0431/smith.php

chuck, Wednesday, 13 October 2004 17:54 (twenty years ago)

That's so metal.

Jordan (Jordan), Wednesday, 13 October 2004 17:57 (twenty years ago)

It's known as "pre-cum"!

Logged out, Wednesday, 13 October 2004 17:58 (twenty years ago)

annoying robot voice announcing "promo" or something all over the song

Haha! I need to hear this!

adam. (nordicskilla), Wednesday, 13 October 2004 18:06 (twenty years ago)

Can't be any more annoying than mixtape dj's cutting in on the tracks.

Jordan (Jordan), Wednesday, 13 October 2004 18:08 (twenty years ago)

Haha! No, that is true. BLAHBLAHBLAH MIXTAPE VOLUME BLAH! DJ BLAH!, etc.

adam. (nordicskilla), Wednesday, 13 October 2004 18:11 (twenty years ago)

i dunno.. i kinda like it on mixtapes... reminds me of a live radio mix with the dj intercutting...

ken taylrr (ken taylrr), Wednesday, 13 October 2004 18:15 (twenty years ago)

I will say that the interjections in the Green Lantern version of 'Just Lose It' that was posted a couple weeks ago made it seem more exciting than the released version.

Jordan (Jordan), Wednesday, 13 October 2004 18:19 (twenty years ago)

Do you know if record companies do digital watermarking?

I work in video games, and I've been told that our advance copies of games have the name of the publication and/or freelance writer written into the code sometimes, so they can identify it later....maybe this wouldn't be possible with MP3s, though (I'm not that familiar with the technology)

M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Wednesday, 13 October 2004 18:20 (twenty years ago)

Matt, I imagine it would quite easily possible to watermark audio in a way that the general public wouldn't be able to find, like writing a specific code assigned to each person responsible for it actually within the music (like Richard D James drawing his face on some Aphex Twin stuff). I've never actually seen it myself though, I imagine it'd be quite hard to stick in there without being audible.

Patrick Allan (adr), Wednesday, 13 October 2004 18:44 (twenty years ago)

It's very easy to watermark audio. Loads of companies can do it for you, such as http://www.verance.com/

Chewshabadoo (Chewshabadoo), Wednesday, 13 October 2004 19:13 (twenty years ago)

hmmm...i was wondering about that.

the games industry is pretty proactive about piracy, and are probably better equipped to deal with it because of the proprietary OS and technology in home consoles....but it's still fairly easy to do and a big problem in Asia...PC games are pretty susceptable..

Yeah, honestly, I wouldn't be suprised if they start doing this...in games, if someting like that happened and they tracked the code to a specific magazine, it could potentially be deadly to the pub, if you got pulled off all of the distrubution lists....

M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Wednesday, 13 October 2004 19:29 (twenty years ago)

as far as pre-promo leaks go:

in-studio security is a pressing issue right now that took a lot of professionals by surprise. it used to be fairly easy to monitor who was making copies of a master in a studio, the practice would tie up a dubbing deck, and copies usually had to be made in real time (high speed copiers existed, but they were usually kept out of the control room). an unethical engineer who wanted to snake copies of rough mixes ran a high risk of drawing attention to himself.

these days anyone with a USB hard drive key can transfer over files in the background in a matter of seconds while staying busy in the foreground; in fact their job very well might be file management & backup, it will look like they are doing their job. it is conceivably not even the engineer at fault; anyone smart enough to know how to drag the right folder to their iPod while someone's looking away can have a day's worth of rough mixes copied over in under two minutes. security has become a nightmare for studios.

when albums are remixed, the original 2" inch reels are often transferred to digital; a 24 track song at 44.1/16bits usually takes less than one gig of space; given ten minutes and a hard drive, you can grab the complete multitracks for an entire album. and this is certainly happening, I've heard a lot of interesting things in the last two years that I'd love to mention but I don't want friends to lose jobs.

(Jon L), Wednesday, 13 October 2004 19:41 (twenty years ago)

(I shouldn't sound too alarmist; this whole issue understandably took most studios by surprise but I hear security's gotten better since the Radiohead leak)

(Jon L), Wednesday, 13 October 2004 19:44 (twenty years ago)

a USB Hard drive key, if you were wondering.

Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Wednesday, 13 October 2004 21:48 (twenty years ago)

in more direct answer to dave q's question: it's not necessarily engineers doing the leaking, it could be anyone. 1 gig hard drives are literally the size and shape of keyrings. short of putting the CPU in a locked isolation box and cementing over the USB ports on your keyboard, and putting every single studio guest and janitor under total round-the-second surveillence, you're not secure.

(Jon L), Wednesday, 13 October 2004 21:58 (twenty years ago)


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