John McEntire -- Genius or ?

It seems like it's been in vogue to bash post-rock and post-rockers since the late 90s. I don't get it -- I think at it's best it's the most interesting stuff to come along for 20 or 30 years. I look forward to the coming historical revisionism when critics will once again embrace it.

I'm interested in hearing this explained to me...

The only vitriol I have is a reaction to the anti- side's vitriol. I don't understand how bands like Tortoise can provoke such a strong negative reaction either. I get this sense of "How dare they make music that doesn't betray a strong punk influence! How dare they do instrumentals! How dare they display musicianship!"

Best post ever.

That was the reaction anyway.

Nu-Steely Dan shit is the bomb.

I have mixed feelings about Tortoise, sometimes I love them sometimes they bore me.

His Reach the Rock soundtrack was pretty good chill out movie shit.

(Keith M and Bimble's posts the best thing on this thread.)

That was the reaction anyway."

Yeah, I had a feeling it might have something to do with them "mainstreaming" a bit (appealing to the Radiohead set, playing big festivals that include jam bands, etc.) I'm never too happy when a band I like is in a commercial, but I don't begrudge them, especially if it's an indie band. They have to make a living somehow.

i don't think so.

Well, yeah, I'd say that is bad. Now whether you think Tortoise belongs in that category or not is another question, and of course subjective responses will vary.

I don't understand the description of early Tortoise regarded as the "new PiL" or the "next PiL". (I'm too lazy to scroll up and confirm which it was upposed to be.) Did people really think THAT? Maybe they did; I just don't remember hearing/reading anyone sayingf that at the time.

Tortoise reminds me of Richard Meltzer's description of the faux-"classical" (or "classy") music young undergrads listened to in the early 1960s: pseudo-"sophisticated" music for their "maturing" tastes. THAT is the function Tortoise (rightly or wrongly) served when they came around. "Maturing" Pavement indie rock fans "growing up" and wanting something they perceived as more intellectual and, you know, more "complicated" than those garagey two-chord scrapes they'd spent the previous five years expounding upon. That their quest for "adult music" sounded like yuppie toe-tapping Stabucks muzak isn't incidental, because I bet Starbucks is precisely where those balding, bearded bastards are taking their lunchbreaks today.

That's your problem.

I've never seen McEntire play, but I always had this sneaking feeling that he'd be biting his bottom lip the way white people do when they're feeling funky.

Does anyone have a theory? I'd love to know the answer to this.

....they seem to be one of those bands that A) some people praised and loved way out of proportion so now B) other people hate and criticize way out of proportion.

i don't go to starbuck (can't stand coffee, but i am bald. no beard.). i don't think liking tortoise makes me more "sophisticated" and not sure that's a good thing to be anyway. my fanhood of tortoise was always fairly casual.

Unless you're not referring to Steve Albini, you could not be further from the truth. He has gone on and on and on about them at length.

i'd like to hear more about this.

I think this is why people so passionately say they suck.

Is John McEntire skinny-but-fat, or fat-but-skinny? I just realized that I haven't a fucking clue what McEntire looks like. (No, please don't post a pic of the drumdroid either; I don't want to know.) Even though I have no picture in my mind of what he looks like (aside from the fact that he's a constipated white guy who does the funky lip-biting pose), I still hate him.

In fact, after reading through this thread, I hate John McEntire even more than I used to. I was very happy when the Red Krayola dumped his sorry ass for George Hurley. I'm not even sure why, but I just liked the fact that the name "John McEntire" stopped showing up in Red Krayola CD credits. George Hurley is a way cool guy to have in your group, unlike John McEntire (which is a boring name, as far as names go), whose Apollonian tight-ass drumming always sounded to me like Chris Cutler on a bad day, with all the interesting and distinctive Cutleresque bits tossed aside. George Hurley is a hundred times better than McEntire; Cutler in a coma would play rings around McEntire. A Roland Dr. Rhythm would be about as exciting and distinctive as the tres boring John McEntire, whose name sounds like your dentist.

Plus John McEntire produces or did produce Stereolab. George Hurley and/or Chris Cutler wouldn't touch Stereolab with a ten foot pole. They're smart and John McEntire DDS is very dumb.

About the only thing John McEntire has going for him is that he's not Jim O'Rourke.

http://www.brainwashed.com/tortoise/images/band1.jpg

gygax, well having looked up on the net and seen Steve Albini everywhere SPEWING love for Tortoise all over it, I musta got a crossed wire. Unless he changed his mind. So sorry.

So another theory for the mad hate of the mild and pleasant Tortoise: they reminded us all we were getting old.

I find this line of reasoning pretty condescending, because this is the exact opposite of what Tortoise is to me. I spent my late teens listening mostly to jazz and classical music, and I spent two years in a conservatory, so I hardly came to Tortoise as music for my "maturing tastes." I think they're fun, sonicly inventive, and unusually subtle, but I don't see them as some kind of high-brow art music. I also don't see them as "TV watching music" -- there's enough going on to keep me listening closely.

Maybe you ought to judge music on its merits, not on what product the people who listen to it allegedly drink.

ps McEntire is the far left, I believe.

Also Albini did a remix for Tortoise, and interviewed them for a magazine (forget the name), so I doubt he "hates" them.

On the other hand, I saw a video of Isotope 2431231245215 once, and both drummers were killing it. I assume once was McEntire and one was Herndon.

Now that you mention it, I have no idea who is doing what drumming-wise on the Tortoise albums.

Indie Guilt.

I saw Tortoise in April in Memphisto and the whole band was going at it pretty hard. I had listened to their Washington DC show from earlier in the year and it sounded pretty wimpy, so I was pleasantly surprised when they kicked out the jams in Memphis. Third time I'd seen them, and the best. McEntire is in the middle of this photo, all tattooed up, and he was doing these interesting Travis Bickle-style staredowns with audience members. Not threatening, just "Are you fucking paying attention here?" It was clear he just wasn't staring off into the distance above everyone's heads, because the drum kits were set up facing each other as the front line, and he had to look hard left to get into these little staring contests. Best show of the year for me.

The champions who I have known:

Damon Che
the guy from The Fucking Champs

haha, it's usually the guys who are complete complete show-offs.

Actually, Isotope's drummers are Herndon and Dan Bitney, also of Tortoise. Chad Taylor is other-worldly though.

John McEntire lately produced one of my favorite polish bands (The Car Is On Fire) and had some instrumental guest appearances there too, imo he's in a very good shape (at least as a producer).

He's relocating (with his studio) from Chicago to Nevada City*, nestled in the Sierra Foothills not far from the Bay Area:

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1320550556/soma-electronic-music-studios-40-a-k-a-soma-west?ref=thanks_email_tweet

*Nevada City is also home to Terry Riley, Joanna Newsom & Noah Georgeson.

Nevada City is nice. Can someone change the title of this thread though?

No kidding - wtf?

Why is Nevada City such a hotspot? It's a tiny little village clinging to the east side of the huge rock that makes up the Donner Pass.

And it's actually closer to Reno than the Bay Area.

Also, I think John McEntire is an alright guy. Fantastic drummer. Great contributions to Stereolab and the Sea and Cake.

Why is Nevada City such a hotspot?

Hippies man. Once the yuppies invaded Marin, the hippies took to the hills.

It's a tiny little village clinging to the east side of the huge rock that makes up the Donner Pass.

And it's actually closer to Reno than the Bay Area.

Maybe you're confusing Nevada City with Truckee? I guess it depends on what you consider the NE edge of the Bay Area: Fairfield? Vacaville? Dixon? At any rate, in the winter time, you'll always feel closer to the Bay Area due to road conditions.

Anyways, John McEntire! A dude you know can hit the drums and record a record! He has a cool kickstarter I linked upthread with lots of cool rewards, esp if you are in a band with a decent budget!

[...]In fact, after reading through this thread, I hate John McEntire even more than I used to. I was very happy when the Red Krayola dumped his sorry ass for George Hurley. I'm not even sure why, but I just liked the fact that the name "John McEntire" stopped showing up in Red Krayola CD credits. George Hurley is a way cool guy to have in your group, unlike John McEntire (which is a boring name, as far as names go), whose Apollonian tight-ass drumming always sounded to me like Chris Cutler on a bad day, with all the interesting and distinctive Cutleresque bits tossed aside. George Hurley is a hundred times better than McEntire; Cutler in a coma would play rings around McEntire. A Roland Dr. Rhythm would be about as exciting and distinctive as the tres boring John McEntire, whose name sounds like your dentist.[...]

― KLJ, Saturday, October 16, 2004 1:06 PM

Uh, OK. McEntire's clattery drum kit feels so essential to the sound of that mid-'90s Krayola stuff.

(Maybe Cutler was busy or not living in Chicago, lol.)

I saw McEntire do some cool shit in his tenure with Gastr Del Sol. I think he was a high school marching band champion!

he has an anchor tattoo... or maybe that's the other john

Nevada City is very nice and not remotely the Bay Area.

I don’t recall it being that hippieish either.

Boy, do I not remember starting this thread.