"'There's no success like failure / And failure's no success at all'"

1. No.

2. It's nonsense.

1. Yes
2. It's nonsense

Wooden and o. nate OTM.

It means that no matter how pleasing and even invigorating a certain success might be, it can never feel as visceral as failure. On the other hand, failure's not success, now, is it. Underachievers please try harder.

This is a brilliant example of the heretofore unappreciated influence of Zen koans on The Bob's songwriting.

Entire thread thus far OTM. And rather funny.

Good lyric. Here is my explanation. (I've linked this piece a lot, but I'm proud of it.)

Wow, Mr Kogan, I am looking forward to reading you.

I have my own wee thoughts which I will share plus tard maybe.

Well, the piece is not that Dylan-specific, but if you know me well (or are me), you'll understand how permeated it is by Dylan.

But anyway, to the lyric itself, and sorry if the analysis comes out maudlin, but the maxim is "There's no success like success," so if you cut down cherry trees and it gets your daddy's attention, you keep doing it. The shift that Dylan's doing here is that, suppose you have a sense of basic all-permeating, systematic social corruption (what's good is bad, what's bad is good, and all that) [e.g., suppose you're 16 years old when you hear the song], and the corruption permeates you and your own actions, then failure is a way out, except failure is failure, so not a way out.

"As much as we would have appreciated any significant attention from the world, we probably would have interpreted it as proof that we hadn't gone far enough out. If I never actually stated it out loud, my inner voices told me that only if we failed would we succeed. It was the only noble option. And I threw every stone I could personally find in my pathway to guarantee it."
--David First, guitarist for the Notekillers, from the liner notes to the Notekillers' first album, which is quite excellent (the album as well as the liner notes) and quite appropriately is now getting its first release a mere 23 years after the group broke up.

I never did comment on this enough myself. My thought was:

"There's no success like failure" = failure can be a kind of success. This would the reverse of a Pyrrhic Victory. Classic Example From History: The Easter Rising.

"And failure's no success at all" = here I lose the thread. The first thought just dissolves. Unless ... those anti-pyrrhic victories are also failures! There is an essay, or is it a book?, on the Rising called 'The Failure of Failure', to counter the idea of The Success of Failure. So - even a successful failure like the Rising is really a failure, as shown in the state of post-partition Ireland.

Vicar, don't come to thread, OK?.

fittingly, b.zimmerman's response has been the most concise and eloquent explanation. which might mean that he best expresses what i think about the lyric, but whatever. im a smart guy.

I think it basically means one thing.

The good feeling you get when you succeed is nothing compared to how bad you feel when you fail.

That is ingenious. I never thought of it.

It is queer how Reese Witherspoon is mailing as 'Peter Smith'.

i can type with one hand play keys with the other. life on stage its a lving. cause theres also no failure like success, and success is no failure at all thank you

Like Pinefox, I agree with the first bit, but then whoever's attempt at satisfying their imagined need for a poetic rejoinder just kills it. More Nietzschen/Kafkaesque encouragement for emotional self-indulgence:

"I'm an artist; everything's fucked; I've started wearing black and my suicidal heart needs lots of attention. Black magic, martyrdom, authenticity..."

We used to go out walkin' hand in hand
You told me all the big things you had planned
It wasn't long till all your dreams came true
Success put me in second place with you

You have no time to love me anymore
Since fame & fortune knocked upon our door
I spend all my evenings all alone
Success has made a failure of our home

If we could spend an evening now & then
Perhaps we'd find true happiness again
You never hold me like you used to do
It's funny what success has done for you

You have no time to love me anymore
Since fame & fortune knocked upon our door
I spend all my evenings all alone
Success has made a failure of our home

I think that this Dylan couplet is not meant to be interpreted as a literal statement of fact that could be proved or disproved logically. It's a description of a mental state. Failure is a success because it is an end, an arrival, a resolution, a release. But then again it's not, because it's not a condition one can remain in. But for the brief moment that you pass through it, this couplet holds true.

ObvioSneering at "authenticity" is no sucess at all. Whatever you impage your favorite artist/entertainer to be like offstage, if the music matters to you, it's authentic enough. Otherwise why bother with it?

It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice

To me, it's:

"Failure's alluring (let's call it 'success') but oh, let's remind ourselves that it remains failure."

To me it means it dosn't matter- there is no sucess like failure-each cancels the other, and failure is no sucess at all- so who cares what we achieve but us?Its all mirrors and magic
jAMIESONS IS A MIGHTY DROP AND HELPS YOU TO SEE CLEARLY.

DO YOU HAVE TROUBLE SHAVING? TRY

...GROWING A BEARD?

("There's no shaving like growing a beard / And growing a beard's no shaving at all")

go read samuel beckett's collected works. and pick me up a postcard of the hanging - if I'm lucky I might get an erection