Will Oldham v Bill Callahan

But there are more Smog songs I like than Palace / BPB / etc

very close, but Callahan

I was thinking, the other day, about I See A Darkness. It's frequently lauded as his 'masterpiece' but I find that the albums directly before and after it are much, much better. Arise Therefore has this amazing bleak, suicide vibe--so much of it just sounds so heartfelt. Similarly, Ease Down The Road feels incredibly sincere but in the totally opposite direction. I See A Darkness has some rad songs, but I don't feel it hanging together as well as either of those two albums, and it does have some weak tracks ("A MInor Place" "Song For the New Breed" "Raining in Darling").

I ought to hear more Smog, though. I'm only familiar with Rain on Lens and Dongs of Sevotion.

By comparison Bill Callahan's good, but no genius.

New Partner > Cold Blooded Oldtimes

These guys's albums (and some Silver Jews) are pleasing me today.

here is info http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2009/01/05/090105fa_fact_sanneh?currentPage=all

I pick Callahan because I'm a euro-pig.

oldham 4 sure i used to love this guy so much as a teen - arise therefor is the best

OLDHAM

That said, I never managed to get very deep into either. LOVE I See a Darkness, which I picked up at random after years of occasionally buying (and usually liking) this or that Oldham/Palace/whatever LP or 45. That and the roughly contemporary "South Side of the World" / "One With the Birds" 45 are incredible, but I haven't liked subsequent stuffs nearly as much. Also remember extra digging the Palace EP w/ "Horses" & "Trudy Dies", and that "Big Balls" mutilation Oldham did for Skin Graft. Makes me think I oughtta do some backtracking here...

In the very early 90s, I liked the idea of liking Smog. Bought Sewn to the Sky because she look intersting, handmade, but never really got the hang of it. A couple years later, picked up Julius Caesar, which was okayish, but I loved "37 Push Ups" and still do. Favorite Smog song by far. Friends have gotten real deep into subsequent Smogs, esp. the Red Apple thru Dongs era, and I can't deny, but it's never quite pushed past like into love for me. Again, I probably just haven't given it the time it deserves.

That article was nice. My favorite part: He was wearing a maroon tank top, orange-and-pink pants, blue Crocs, and a pink Boston Red Sox cap, with “cam” and “odia” scrawled on either side of the “B.” Does anyone know where I can find a good picture of this, showing the handwriting? (The Pitchfork pix don't).

its quite the aggressive look eh

i like them both v much

oldham is a bit of a blind spot for me, i would struggle to name three songs. callahan is a longtime fave otoh, so he wins this by default.

Like hilarious to see someone choosing Callahan over Oldham based on voice. Callahan has the biggest joke of a voice upon which an actual career is premised I have ever heard. Even pre-voice lessons Oldham was schooling him vocally on all counts. Oldham is the only answer.

Callahan has the biggest joke of a voice upon which an actual career is premised I have ever heard.

utter bullshit. have you heard anything he's done in the past few years? gorgeous voice. feel like Oldham's voice peaked around I See a Darkness and Ease Down the Road. it's gotten... scratchier?

I heard his last record and found it just as unbearable as his other records and most of the Smog records (I have heard most of them). I love Oldham, Berman and most of the Drag City po-mo singer-songwriter stable to death, some of my favorite music ever. I have never heard anything by Callahan that approaches that level, his whole approach is bizarre, unfunny, devoid of emotion. Just nothing to offer. I understand why he is compared to Oldham for obvious reasons but as far as the singer-songwriter milieu they are an opposite ends of the aesthetic spectrum IMO.

his whole approach is...devoid of emotion.

I guess I can understand why you don't like his songs (if not your hostility), but this claim is just...bizarre. Maybe you should listen to some recent records? I find his music to be deeply emotional.

also 'unfunny'?? dude's hilarious

Yes.

everybody knows/
a menage a trois/
is just the desire/
to do it with/
your ma, and pa

dress sexy is a sweet, quietly hilarious song imo

utter bullshit. have you heard anything he's done in the past few years? gorgeous voice.

otm. the dude has a beautiful voice. kinda sounds like willie if you dropped him to a baritone

Well these guys are all idiosyncratic personalities to a degree so perhaps Callahan's personality just doesn't appeal to me, like at all. I think lyrically he has a bit in common with Jim O'Rourke's approach, and I love O'Rourke's pop records. I don't know, there is just something "off" about him to me.

I would maintain that his voice is, at best, a very acquired taste whereas I think Oldham has broad appeal, at least vocally.

I would maintain that his voice is, at best, a very acquired taste whereas I think Oldham has broad appeal, at least vocally.

i love both these dudes, and obv diff't strokes and all, but man i can't help but think this is totally backwards for most people! oldham's voice is great, now esp, but his early stuff is uh challenging to say the least. callahan's 'problem' is not that his voice is bad, but that he doesn't let it loose more often. if he went as hard as oldham does (there doesn't exist a smog rave-up as far as i know) i'm guessing he would sound great. as it is, his whole ish is that he's pretty restrained, and seems to ride the edge between 'sonorous talking' and 'barely croony'.

does callahan use backup singers? oldham has been using them with very excellent results for the last several records. good tact for a marginal singer imo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lg5VAOG67So

callahan leaves me p cold

love oldham tho

i like silver jews best but i guess thats not the thread

love both these guys, might give a slight edge to callahan but who cares they're both good

OPOs are 'river guard' and 'strange form of life'

Will is a far more interesting artist, his whole career path is pretty amazing. I think he has many more years and surprises left in him.

Oldham by leaps and bounds

wtf @ this... bill callahan's voice these days is beautiful

pretty sure Oldham, Callahan, and Silver Jews accounted for about 50% of my listening in college. Oldham was always the favorite back then but i've since moved over to Callahan. i think that's mostly because Oldham's last few records, while fine, are just kind of... eh. he's fallen into a bit of a groove and it's a bland one. Callahan on the other hand is doing some of the best work of his career. still dig Will. i think he's a wonderful lyricist. but Bill's stuff hits harder these days.

pitting all three against each other would be like cohen vs. dylan vs. young. i'll let you decide which is which...

I think on ILM berman would win but maybe someone should just do the poll and find out.

Jason Molina would have to be in the poll too

Callahan got to date Chan Marshall, so he gets a few points for that.

and Dame Darcy.

and lisa carver

he was also liz taylor's last husband

and father of ned raggett

(not really)

Jason Molina would have to be in the poll too

Like the dude a lot but he seems...second string?

Anyway that poll would be good

seems like we are afraid to start the poll for some reason

Wire readers might see it?

haven't had the time to read this yet, but:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sf/style/2014/07/01/songwriters/

I just tried to, yeesh, don't bother.

I thought this was really good - https://pitchfork.com/news/bill-callahan-bonnie-prince-billy-and-matt-sweeney-cover-hank-williams-jr-listen/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIPYAnjnh4M

<3

Had a horrible feeling that they were going to do an ‘ironic‘ version of it...but it’s absolutely wonderful

Bill MacKay is awesome

the guitar sounds incredible on this

Yeah, that's MacKay!

I like his albums with Ryley Walker

so great

it's not really possible to do an "ironic" version of Dan, they are miles ahead of anyone else in irony

I guess I don't know why you'd assume they would do an ironic version to begin with

the song arrived on the same day that tom scharpling promised to dedicate his whole show to telling people why the dan is bad

ugh ffs scharpling

this cover is really excellent btw

I kinda want Callahan and McKay to join Superwolf for the next album.

I think I'd prefer it if Will sang the lead vox? Bill has all the range of a parents-basement Astrud Gilberto fanatic.

MacKay really saves this cover.

(that's not to say that Donald had incredible range, yet he understood the limitations of his gift which he then built songs around, as ambitious as he was at the time)

Weirdly I guess I'm the only one who really doesn't like the guitar on this - it sounds like a mess to me.

I mean some of it sounds good but all the different layers together sound bad

Bill's vocal is good enough and I like the part where Will comes in on harmony

I mean really this sounds like a fucking mixed level guitar class playthrough

I get nothing out of Oldham while I like a good handful of smog records so it’s gotta be bill

I don’t know the original song, but I agree w/ man alive re: the guitar playing in that track.

I'm a fan of both McKay and Callahan (indifferent about Bonnie), but this cover is horrendous and really showcases the limits of Callahan's voice

It sounds like there is one good acoustic track, which I assume is McKay, but then there is some real awfulness layered on top, like that sloppy delay electric. But also a fair number of clashy notes and rhythmic ideas in the multiple acoustic tracks. The background "ooohs" are also terrible and take away from it. It's an extraordinarily harmonically and rhythmically nuanced song and extremely hard to cover for that reason. A laid-back, vaguely bossaish cover of it is a nice concept but Bill is the wrong guy to do it and there's a lot of bad, amateurish stuff stepping all over it here.

Ah guys. I love this, but any Bill/Steely combo was going to make me happy since those are two Big Musics for me.

those are two Big Musics for me.

Same. I honestly really like Bill’s vocals on this — his voice sounds great over these kinds of chords. But I’m also in the camp that thinks all the guitars here sound like a mess. I made a mono version using only what’s in the left channel and I find it a lot more palatable. Oldham’s vocals are less prominent too, which is fine with me.

there are so many of these covers now! I'm keeping a playlist since it doesn't seem to exist anywhere

https://open.spotify.com/playlist/7EoNfsSBILMQ9vpxq9KIWv

Oldham's stomping take on "Our Anniversary" is great

Thanks Simon!

A Bill Callahan playlist in here:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0012h6l

I must admit I'm putting it here so I can find it again.

oh this is interesting. his mixtape starts at 1:06, by the way

Oldham and Callahan's collaboration is a big disappointment, nothing of what I love about either artist is on display. Everything just sounded very basic rock music. And I was excited to hear it.

I’ve had the opposite reaction! I’m a much bigger fan of Callahan, and this album takes him a bit off of the slow and steady path he had been sticking to. I’ve already listened to it mire than his last couple albums combined. “That Night in Santiago” is a stunner.

"The Wild Kindness" felt like a full-on Drag City tribute to Berman and was especially moving for that reason. I liked "Deacon Blues" as well.

*puts on Roberts Evans voice* Was every tribute paid their due by lifelong indie artists? No. Did I put "Our Anniversary" on my year end list? You bet your ass I did.

Oldham and Callahan's collaboration is a big disappointment, nothing of what I love about either artist is on display. Everything just sounded very basic rock music. And I was excited to hear it.

Wow, I don't hear very much "basic rock music" on this album at all.