Differences between the US and UK

Maybe you are right that overall, indie music is less middle class in the UK than than the US. We're a smaller, more densely packed country, so you don't get the cultural demarcations and ghettoizations that you get in the US. Everyone's a lot closer. I dunno.

There might be some truth in what you say. It did get me thinking. I suppose blues was a "working class" music in the US and then loads of middle class/posh kids in the UK started playing it in the 60s.

UK people drive like this...

it's funny because it's true!

I don't know this is even particularly true anymore, except at the extremes.

HS

HS

Doesn't Britain have universal health care?

Maybe non-affluent artists in the U.S. are more likely to give up or just be obscured by wealthier kids because one sort of isn't allowed to just fuck around and scrape by -- you have to either put up with the hours demanded by whatever job will give you health care or, eventually, unless you're reeeallly lucky, wind up in debt.

Just a theory.

young people can get by without health insurance so that likely hasn't anything to do with anything.

I think keith is onto something here. The indie scene in the US seems more precious and sort of self-respected as a viable genre. Esp. the indiepop scene. Over here, it's more just something people arse around at for a while.

I think Americans are obsessed with the idea that the [English / British?] are obsessed with class!

i don't think us bands give up earlier, i think more us bands will scrape by for years with only the most modest of support while in the uk it seems a lot of time when the music press loses interest then so too does the band. maybe because the country is smaller it's easier to attract press attention and then events seems more pointless when they aren't noticing you even though you've moved to london and have fancy haircuts.

The big issue here I think is the size of the two countries.

Britain's smaller so it's much easier to get yourself noticed (which is why over the years so many American bands and musicians have had to come to the UK and get noticed here first before they were able to get anyone to pay attention to them back home) - but there are also fewer places to hide.

America's bigger so it's far more difficult to get yourself noticed but much easier to just keep on touring around the place earning enough to keep going but managing not to attract too much attention.

The press is another major factor here. The mainstream music press in the UK seems to be obsessed for years with the idea of keeping themselves in work by continually building acts up and knocking them down again in favour of the next new thing.

The UK has government supported radio which spins a diverse set of songs from a wide range of genres. It doesn't take much to gain a broad understanding of music, only radio access.

American radio is largely run as a business, with a streamlined playlist that only churns out hits, usually from only one genre. To be indie in the US you have to be middle class - indie radio is heard only in major cities, on college campuses and now through broadband internet access.

The role of college campuses is probably crucial as well. Not sure how it is in the UK, but college campuses are the breeding grounds for indie scenesters in the US. US colleges are predominantly middle class/upper class kids - they have money to pay tution and have time to fancibly dream that expanding one's knowledge is the key to life.

Also, how many pirates are there in the US?

What are you referring to as "higher education" and what are the figures for the US?

As I understand it, in the UK currently 75-80% of students are going on to do "A" Levels and approx. 50% are going on to do Degrees.

Of course both figures are massively higher than they were when I were a lad, when all us working class kids were sent straight to t'mill or up t'chimney or down t'pit as soon as we were weaned - but then in those days eddyoomakayshun was only for the children of the toffs and not for the likes of us, lawd luv ya!

Zero, I think.

Touché, Mr. Osborne!
I'll get me coat...

(Did I use that phrase properly? And if so, am I now entitled to employ teh other ILX cliches? That'd be grebt!)

(Did I use that phrase properly? And if so, am I now entitled to employ teh other ILX cliches? That'd be grebt!)"

You did indeed use it correctly old chap - but that's no need to get carried away!

"...oh, and I'm actually not American, but Canadian."

They're they go again, damned colonials, always so bloody precious about which damned colony they're from - as if it makes any damned difference, eh what, don't ya know?!

Errrrrrrrrrrrr, I can't think of too many. The Fall? Daft thread.

I'm surprised no-one has brought up the British National Sport: pretending to be working class.

OTM. I always meet people who seem to think that just because you work, that makes you working class. Not in my book. Something like 70% of the population is defined according to education/earnings etc. as Middle Class, but something like 70% of people define themselves as working class. Go figure...

Can we agree that only the real, dedicated, long-term, hard-core, dyed-in-the wool, third generation, career-unemployed, have actually earned the right to consider themselves to be genuinely working class?

Ergo there has never been - nor, by definition, could there ever be - a genuine working class band.

QED