John Peel Tributes, umm Classic/Dud?

(and, as mentioned elsewhere, one of the satellite channels ran two episodes of Life Of Grime back to back on the day that he died. which was funny but i'm not entirely sure they weren't already scheduled)

xpost. marcello spot on about walters. was a (pleasant) surprise to see him.

Andy Kershaw's Sunday Radio 3 show was excellent.

I hadn't seen the repeated 1999 documentary, with John Walters, before. I thought it was excellent.

To condense everything Peel achieved and stood for will take 4-8 months-worth of archival amterial, getting the 'right' balance of interviews and talking heads (without wallowing sychophancy)and historical perspective.

You guys are lucky though, I live in Australia and feel so, er, Peel-deprived having only fleeting experiences to his greatness. Considering that NME and Peel went hand-in-glove to its core audience for music for decades, I would be very dissapointed if they didn't get the older school hacks in to write their eulogies.

I would love to see an Uncut presents....apecial in memory of him with all archival NME pieces contained. Anyone know of any Mojo tribute as yet, as I would preume their more seasoned veterans would be more capapble of decent print?

and Phil Jupitus, who looked and sounded genuinely distressed about it all, which endeared me to him.

Andy Kershaw looked a wreck those first couple of days and sounded croaky on his sunday show. and he finally played 'When An Old Cricketer Leaves The Crease' song. which was nice.

Peel TIYL was, in my eyes, too full of people chosen because the BBC1 audience would recognise them (Bowie, Branson, Blair?). Been a while since i watched it though. might dig it out again tonight.

would love to see Rock Family Trees again. and i've heard that Mojo's tribute will be lush.

Fuck off and die you snide, zero-achieving slice of shit.

2. I am fairly sure that most of his listeners did not continue to do so because of some bizarre class allegiance.

3. I don't care how he managed to survive at the BBC, I am just very glad he did so for as long as he did.

4. Who gives a shit about sexual proclivity?

The man contributed something that is unrelated to all of these points, which is possibly why nobody else has mentioned them.

1. peel didn't play the same records which all other radio 1 djs were playing ten times a day = beezlebub.

2. faked working class persona = bye bye stones, who, kinks, dylan, beatles, clash, pistols then.

3. old salopian mark s to thread.

4. we shouldn't be tempted to crucify people for having morals in previous times not concomitant with our own hugely hypocritical idea of contemporary morals (by "our" i mean "uk society 2004" as opposed to ilx). when exactly was the school leaving age raised again?

As pointed out above, his was a specialist show and so this is an irrelevant criticism.

the faked working class persona, the extent that his much lauded survival at the Beeb depended on his having gone to Shrewsbury.

This has been discussed in the tributes and I've seen Peel himself joke about the Shrewsbury connection in interviews as being one of the reasons the higher-ups left him alone.

And of course, most seriously, the quietly-forgotten-once-it-became-too-socially -unacceptable sexual preoccupation with under-age girls).

Peel has discussed fairly openly his marriage to a 15-y-o in the US and the out-of-context quotes selected by Burchill in that article to cast Peel in a poor light don't really work.

Of course he did some terribly embarrassing and perhaps slightly shameful things in his youth (youth for a DJ perhaps ending around 35) but seems to have acknowledged them and learned from them (thanks to Sheila, no doubt); it's not like the guy was running for public office. Burchill's muck-raking was pathetic at the time and seems particularly nasty now.

peel was married for 30 years so burchill's talking about the early to mid 1970s. the past is a foreign country where people did go to hyde park and lie and watch the clouds writing poems in the sky. even the previous marriage could be seen to have been done out of kindness.

Stevie, just hang around with me for a bit and you'll be the perfect Californian.

All the same, I've been surprised by the canonisation of him, borne out by the (not unexpected) vituperative response to my perfectly fair post. I acknowledged that Burchill's piece was spiteful. I did not try to make out the criticisms to be larger than they are. I agree that making use of your public school background to get on, disguising your social origins and being snotty about the kind of pop music most people like are hardly hanging offences, even in a would-be Joe Ordinary man-of-the-people. What is fascinating is the spectacle of a lot of people who would normally be much more judgemental than I about this kind of behaviour falling over themselves to give Peel a free pass. I agree that some of this stuff was glanced at in some of the tributes, but never in a questioning or critical way. Peel was a master at disarming criticism by the self-deprecatory acknowledgement: minor peccadillo, were all human after all, none more so than me. Fair enough, it was a big part of his charm: we are all human, and they were generally minor peccadillos. But his charm shouldn't disarm critical judgement altogether.

The more serious criticism, the underaged girls was completely suppressed, at least in the tributes I saw or heard. Peel wrote column after column in the 70s describing gigs where he seemed to be more preoccupied with the sexual allure of local schoolgirls than with the music. Admittedly much of this was tongue in cheek (amongst other things his columns were a prolongued lament that as a relatively minor and not too beautiful celebrity he wasn't getting access to as many schoolgirls as he would have liked) but it seemed in pretty poor taste even at the time. And there was the reality of the underage marriage behind it.

Changing values as an explanation or excuse? Yes, up to a point - but there was an age of consent, and possible criminal charges to be considered, even then, and Peel was already a long way from being a teenager himself. Burchill may have been motivated by spite but she wasn't making this stuff up. OK, it was quite a long time ago, the past is another country, and he was mixing with people leading a rock'n'roll lifestyle where such behaviour was commonplace. I'm not suggesting with-hindsight demonisation, just that I would have expected a more balanced view of his life in a BBC tribute. If we can forgive Led Zeppelin or Bill Wyman we can forgive Peel. But I can't see a Wyman "tribute" not mentioning this aspect of his past, even if only as a prelude to explaining or (partially) excusing it. I have no doubt that some people so very happy to excuse this minor peccadillo would have been much more savagely judgemental had it involved most other public figures, say a more mainstream Radio 1 DJ.

Incidentally, the "respect for the recently deceased" explanation for the canonisation of Peel doesn't quite fit: you need only read a few broadsheet obituaries to realise that awkward negatives are not normally as systematically ignored as they have been in Peel's case. Why has Peel has become such a special case (answer obviously to be found in above responses: as with Diana, people whose responses to his death are more measured are cowed by the fanaticims of the disciples).

Marcello, you know nothing about what I've achieved. For good personal reasons I'm here anonymously and intend to remain so. For what it's worth, if I was remotely interested in the kind of pissing contest you seem obsessed by I could point to a rather more substantial degree of wordly success than you can. But you seem to make a habit of this kind of ignorant abuse of posters, and I'm flattering you unduly by responding. Away, slight man.

That's enough pissing in the wind for one day. Time (too late, I know) to observe Dennis Healey's rule of holes.

that bbc2 tribute was originally commissioned for his 60th birthday celebrations so it was hardly going to be damning. the shorter newspaper articles didn't tend to get much beyond 'he was the man who discovered oasis' (sic) and the lengthier ones were written by friends or people with tons of respect for him. there'll be an unauthorised biography out within months, i'm sure, and maybe that'll shine a darker light on him.

The sub-caption to the (highly affectionate) Mark Ellen tribute in this month's Word reads: "He was no saint, John Peel. But the complexity of his character, the life he lived and his genius for sharing it forged a deep connection with all of us."

The three highlighted extracts on pp 75-77 read:

"Early rock and roll, standing on The Kop, his laddish relationship with The Faces, punk rock, all were a reaction to his monied past."

"He later married a 15 year-old, though a police inquiry about relatons with another underage girl prompted a speedy return home."

"Study his broadcasts since the '60s and you'll notice Peel has four totally diffrent accents."

As for the accent thing: when I was 18, I had a plummy boarding-school accent. Now I'm 42, I have a vague Northern burr and precious little residual nobbiness. This isn't due to some self-conscious, guilt-stricken "re-invention" ... my voice has just gone that way over time. So give the man a break...

The story of your own accent doesn't seem entirely analagous. Presumably you have been mixing with people with accents unlike your original one and have gradually absorbed them to some extent. Peel never seemed to be working or socialising in a milieu where he would have unconsciously picked up the accents he used - he consciously adopted them. The "official" version was that he adopted a Liverpool accent to get on in America in the early to mid 60s: however his late 60s/70s accent was still much more public school and less Liverpudlian than it later became. That can't be explained by time spent in Liverpool. As I've already said, consciously faking your accent to fit in is a pretty venal sin, but most of us would find it a bit weird if someone we met in the pub was doing it, and it sat oddly with Peel's salt-of-the-earth, no-nonsense, no-ambition-here persona. I'd expect anyone examining his life to show an interest in that apparent discrepancy.

from anyone else this would seem insanely sinister...

He was an immeasurably important person to hundreds and thousands of people all over the world, including myself, for reasons completely unconnected with any of the muck-raking drivel above. We are still getting used to the idea that he is no longer in the world so what is the point in winding people up with this kind of tabloidese right now?

-- frankiemachine (franki...), November 11th, 2004.

Listen, loser, you came on this thread to start an argument - a pathetic, nitpicking argument at that - and you've had the same treatment/kicking from me as everyone else who's tried it.

You're a failure, son. You have achieved no worldly success; indeed, no success of any degree. You have made no difference to the progress of humanity. You will never make anyone laugh or cry. You are NOTHING. You are NOBODY.

The fact that John Peel is dead and you are not is a further indication, as though one were needed, of the unfairness of this world and of the distribution of genes.

Now go away and listen to your Ed Stewart bootlegs, there's a good boy.

What are you talking about? I met him once, and saw him around a few times. He was a DJ. He went to and did gigs. A fair few people on these boards have, likewise. Socialising? OK he didn't do too many Radio 1 roadshows, but apart from what I mentioned, how do you know he didn't mix with people? Sheesh.

Yes, John Peel changing his accent puts him on a par with Saddam Hussein doesn't it?

Idiot.

Springsteen Schmingsteen. Just 'cos Peel slagged him off 29 years ago? It's a long time to bear a grudge.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/music/4268326.stm

I saw him at the Ornette Coleman gig at the Barbican but that's not exactly hot off the presses new music is it?

http://www.rocklist.net/steveparker/paulmorley.htm

http://rateyourmusic.com/lists/list_view/list_id_is_14872

"Eighty 8 - If You Think Radiohead's _Kid A_ is Weird, Then You Should Really Hunt This Music Down"
http://rateyourmusic.com/lists/list_view/list_id_is_15702

Oh, and about 20 "Peel out in the States" Radio service CDs, I have in the loft.

I've got 1-8 and 11-12. I play them constantly. If you feel like it, Mark, email me--I'd love to get the rest.

http://enjoyment.independent.co.uk/music/news/article316357.ece

("21 NOVEMBER Release of a version of the Buzzcocks classic "Ever Fallen in Love" - one of the records in Peel's box - recorded by Roger Daltrey of The Who, David Gilmour of Pink Floyd and others as a tribute." wtf!)

out on 17th

CD 1
Lonnie Donegan - 'Lost John'
Tyrannosaurus Rex - 'Deborah'
Pink Floyd - 'Set The Controls For The Heart Of The Sun'
The Jimi Hendrix Experience - 'Spanish Castle Magic'
Van Morrison - 'Sweet Thing'
David Bowie - 'Life On Mars?'
The Doors - 'Five To One'
Tim Buckley - 'Song To The Siren'
The Faces - 'Stay With Me'
The Misunderstood - 'I Can Take You To The Sun'
Country Joe & The Fish - 'Not So Sweet Martha Lorraine'
Fairport Convention - 'Meet On The Ledge'
Captain Beefheart - 'Big Eyed Beans From Venus'
Loudon Wainwright III - 'Be Careful There Is A Baby In The House'
Roy Buchanan - 'I Am a Lonesome Fugitive'
The Bonzo Dog Doo Dah Band - 'Mr Apollo'
The Ramones - 'I Don't Want To Walk Around With You'
The Clash - 'Complete Control'
Joy Division - 'Love Will Tear Us Apart'
New Order - 'Ceremony'

CD 2
The Undertones - 'Teenage Kicks'
Altered Images - 'Happy Birthday'
The Smiths - 'How Soon Is Now?'
Cocteau Twins - 'Pearly-Dewdrops Drops'
The Jesus & Mary Chain - 'Sidewalking'
Blur - 'Song 2'
Culture - 'Lion Rock'
Billy Bragg - 'A New England'
Robert Wyatt - 'Shipbuilding'
The Wedding Present - 'Brassneck'
PJ Harvey - 'Sheela-Na-Gig'
Pulp - 'Common People'
The Fall - 'Theme From Sparta F.C.'
Super Furry Animals - 'Something For The Weekend'
Nina Nastasia - 'Bird Of Cuzco'
The Delgados - 'Pull The Wires From The Wall'
Belle & Sebastian - 'Lazy Line Painter Jane'
Laura Cantrell - 'Two Seconds'
Orbital - 'Chime'
Elmore James - 'Dust My Blues'

but where is the happy hardcore? 8)

People hate phil Jupituss because he isn't funny on TV or radio, because he is nevertheless on TV and radio quite a lot, and because his act is actually quite repellent. Also, "Never mind the Buzzcocks" is a crock of shit which should never have got a second series. It's nice to hear he's ok irl, but you'd never have guessed that from his "public persona".

However 6 Music management seem a useless bunch lacking in creativity and knowledge.

good to hear sheila when i turned the radio on this morning too.

nice picture of peel falling off a radio 1 donkey in the book. (had to ask the girl in whsmiths if they had copies at about 10:30 this morning. they were still downstairs waiting to be unpacked)

Best of Peel shows are going to be broadcast on 6 music next week:
seems to be 4 x 60 minutes as part of 6 Music Plays It Again - http://www.bbc.co.uk/6music/shows/inthearchive/

the new autobiography is Book Of The Week on radio 4 next week (9:45 am, repeated much later iirc).

and all the BBC4 2004 Peel Night shows are being re-broadcast on Wednesday.

Dud:
http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/40923000/jpg/_40923388_peelstitch_203.jpg

it's a day today since since he died.

the radio 6 things i've heard so far are for fans only. monday was a repeat of his very first bbc show from 67, 5 days before i was born, co-presenting with someone else. very hackneyed links. tuesday was a repeat of an interview he did with john walters for his 45th(?) birthday.

8 page interview with the family in Word (sorry, THE Word) this month (and interestingly that runs straight into an interview with alan bennett, 'Men Behaving Mildy' anyone?)

And now, a New tribute CD.

(cd is the usual suspects, slightly unusual songs (because they used the obvious ones last time). very much late 80s indie disco but hey... ooh, red guitars...)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio1/colinmurray/tracklistingarchive.shtml?20061012

John Peel's Millennium All Time Festive 50

10. This Mortal Coil - 'Song to the Siren' (Beggars Banquet)
9. The Smiths - 'There is a Light that Never Goes Out' (Rough Trade)
8. Nirvana - 'Smells Like Teen Spirit' (Geffen)
7. The Smiths - 'How Soon is Now?' (Rough Trade)
6. New Order - 'Blue Monday' (Factory)
5. The Clash - 'White Man in Hammersmith Palais' (Columbia)
4. Sex Pistols - 'Anarchy in the UK' (EMI)
3. Joy Division - 'Love Will Tear Us Apart' (Factory)
2. Undertones - 'Teenage Kicks' (Sire)
1. Joy Division - 'Atmosphere' (Factory)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio1/maryannehobbs/tracklistingarchive.shtml?20061013

including:

Mark E. Smith mix
=================
Big Youth – ‘Wolf In Sheep Clothing’ (Blood & Fire)
Der Plan – ‘Hans und Gabi’ (Ata-Tak)
Glen Campbell – ‘Try A Little Kindness’ (Capitol)
Gene Vincent & His Blue Caps – ‘Race With The Devil’ (Capitol)
Can – ‘Father Cannot Yell’ (Spoon)
Hank Mizell – ‘Jungle Rock’ (Charly)
The Fall – ‘Rebellious Jukebox’ (Sanctuary Records)
Lee Perry – ‘Kimble’ (Trojan)
Dave Berry – ‘Strange Effect’ (Spectrum)
The Ramones – ‘Beat On The Brat’ (Warners)

Also a batch of single artist Peel Session CDs. (Banshees - again - for one. Can't remember the others, but nothing obscure.)

IF YOU'RE GEIR HONGRO.

8)

i have been listening to old show recordings which are much better tributes than the tributes (most of which are designed to be popular).

http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcfour/listings/programme.shtml?day=sunday&filename=20070930/20070930_2340_4544_11884_40&service_id=4544

Sun 30 Sep, 23:40-00:20
Arena - Today Carshalton Beeches...Tomorrow Croydon: Showing as part of Radio Week. This programme looks at John Peel's role in the rock world and that of his radio show producer, John Walters.

40mins Stereo Widescreen

(clashes with the Keeping It Peel show that's on as part of Radio 1's 40th anniversary shows. that may be the one presented by the hobbity fella, details are lacking)