Jess Harvell: hates noise dudes and hippies, has no point (NOT SAFE FOR WORK

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http://www.seattleweekly.com/features/0445/041110_music_noise.php

This comes across as hopelessly bitter and jaded, not to mention the fact that it doesn't develop a context in which to deliver its point; i guess that doesn't matter because it seems to lack much of a point anyway (outside of standard 'describe the music' bs.)

― Ian John50n (orion), Wednesday, 10 November 2004 23:28 (twenty years ago)

"Seattle Weekly" is yor answer

― LSTD (answer) (sexyDancer), Wednesday, 10 November 2004 23:32 (twenty years ago)

why was the other thread locked?

― bulbs (bulbs), Wednesday, 10 November 2004 23:32 (twenty years ago)

i guess because noise dudes have no self control and will start throwing things at one another.

― Ian John50n (orion), Wednesday, 10 November 2004 23:33 (twenty years ago)

It's unlocked now. (xp)

― strawman noisedude # 00192 (deangulberry), Wednesday, 10 November 2004 23:33 (twenty years ago)

I would take this article more seriously if Jess didn't use the phrase "noise dudes" or refer to "internet message boards."

― strawman noisedude # 00192 (deangulberry), Wednesday, 10 November 2004 23:34 (twenty years ago)

As I said on the other thread but lost the post. I'm a neutral and I've never heard Wolf Eyes, have no opinion on them. The article would make me more interested in hearing them, to be honest.

It didn't make me think "noise dudes are a bunch of fucking morons" or "wolf eyes are totally shit". If anything such a dissection of a band is worth A THOUSAND beaming positive reviews. If someone else wrote a crap, SHIT positive review of Wolf Eyes would it make the Noize Board? Even if it was dire and said absolutely nothing?

One of the main things the article does, implicitly or otherwise, is make Wolf Eyes seem like an important band at the moment, and noise like a sort of cultural battleground. As far as I'm concerned that's the most important thing for any genre or style of music, once there's no argument about something it's dead in the water and a piece of shit.

― Ronan (Ronan), Wednesday, 10 November 2004 23:35 (twenty years ago)

Whether Jess likes Wolf Eyes or not is irrelevent, only dickhead buyers guide critics write in that way. The important thing is he's dissecting them and that's worth more either way and any artist should value that, as should any fan.

I mean suspend your liking for the band for one second, is Jess REALLY just doing a hack job here? I don't think so.

― Ronan (Ronan), Wednesday, 10 November 2004 23:37 (twenty years ago)

i'd like to know why he thought Kenan's primer was asinine and if it was why did he use it to illustrate the point he was making re: Merzbow.

― jed_ (jed), Wednesday, 10 November 2004 23:37 (twenty years ago)

otherwise i don't totally agree with what Ronan says but neither do i agree that it "comes across as hopelessly bitter and jaded".

― jed_ (jed), Wednesday, 10 November 2004 23:40 (twenty years ago)

i guess jess doesnt like noise.

― hector (hector), Wednesday, 10 November 2004 23:40 (twenty years ago)

I like noise, but I kind of agree with Jess' points about the culture around it. I do find it assinine, juvenile and exclusionary (I'm not referring to our own beloved noiseboard here); there's something of a loser jock mentality to some of it. But stripped of it's cultural hangups, I really enjoy listening to lots of it, even though I entered by the 'pussy' entrance - I was mainly introduced via Sonic Youth.

― Kevin Gilchrist (Mr Fusion), Wednesday, 10 November 2004 23:41 (twenty years ago)

xxpost:
because it's cool to put down The Wire, even if you read it cover to cover

― LSTD (answer) (sexyDancer), Wednesday, 10 November 2004 23:41 (twenty years ago)

("I know girls who love them" is the new "I have plenty of black friends."

― latebloomer (latebloomer), Wednesday, 10 November 2004 23:43 (twenty years ago)

I think you have to imagine that such things are written for an implied reader who has never heard "noise" and is curious.

As far as "maleness" goes, the stereotype of the noise scene IS dudely. It's just a stereotype, but . . . I didn't see many females at the Merzbow/Masonna show at the Bottom of the Hill 7 years ago, or the Hafler Trio/Phauss/Bilting Karkowski show at the Kennel Club 15 years ago. Those of us who have been following noise long enough to be "jaded" might reach a conclusion or two, hee hee.

Not sure about the repeated WIRE/Keenan obsession though, methinks it doth protest too much.

― Drew Daniel, Wednesday, 10 November 2004 23:44 (twenty years ago)

Ronan may be right that this review speaks more than a positive review but that kind of seems like stretching to search for a positive.

― hector (hector), Wednesday, 10 November 2004 23:45 (twenty years ago)

One thing that's clear from that review is that Jess likes SOME noise, but thinks the culture surrounding it is kinda dodgy, Which is pretty much my viewpoint, so I am naturally well-disposed to the article. Otherwise, Ronan is OTM.

― RickyT (RickyT), Wednesday, 10 November 2004 23:45 (twenty years ago)

WTF it sounded like he was showering praise on both bands!

about 5xpost

― sundar subramanian (sundar), Wednesday, 10 November 2004 23:46 (twenty years ago)

uh, it IS a positive review. he clearly likes both records and says so.

― Matos W.K. (M Matos), Wednesday, 10 November 2004 23:46 (twenty years ago)

(haha xpost galore)

― Matos W.K. (M Matos), Wednesday, 10 November 2004 23:47 (twenty years ago)

Mildly engaging, but one would be cowtowed without distinguishing Harvell's far superior DJ Sammy submission which proffered a more visceral polemic. We discussed this particular text last night on a 4 and a half hour conference call to the Seattle branch of the International Noise Bureau. Poneman and Pavitt were not pleased, the corporate ad $$$ NewTimesINC. hoped to shore up may dry up within the quarter.

Next up: Locusts swarm Senegal
http://us.news1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/rids/20041019/i/r2053995893.jpg

― gygax! (gygax!), Wednesday, 10 November 2004 23:47 (twenty years ago)

I think our resident noise dudes might be taking things a little too personally.

― RickyT (RickyT), Wednesday, 10 November 2004 23:48 (twenty years ago)

Great piece of writing, Jess!

Even his pokes at the 'scene' aren't so harsh: white, middlebrow, and predominantly male aren't inherently bad things and they are fairly accurate.

multiple xpost

― sundar subramanian (sundar), Wednesday, 10 November 2004 23:48 (twenty years ago)

why do people have to attack writers who try to do something in an interesting way? just because you disagree does not make it "polemic".

there is alot of anti-writing sentiment here.

― Ronan (Ronan), Wednesday, 10 November 2004 23:52 (twenty years ago)

there's a lot of anti-thinking sentiment, which figures

― Matos W.K. (M Matos), Wednesday, 10 November 2004 23:56 (twenty years ago)

I believe this was the dreaded October Surprise Mr. Harvell hinted at prior to his departure.

― gygax! (gygax!), Wednesday, 10 November 2004 23:57 (twenty years ago)

hahaha

― adam... (nordicskilla), Wednesday, 10 November 2004 23:58 (twenty years ago)

i'm always interested to read not-positive reviews of music i like. It seems not many other people are though.

― jed_ (jed), Wednesday, 10 November 2004 23:58 (twenty years ago)

Sundar - was your 5Xpost aimed as me? It's always hard to tell...anyway, I know it's positive, but perhaps my early 'but' implied I didn't. I was just trying to say what I don't like about it.

― Kevin Gilchrist (Mr Fusion), Wednesday, 10 November 2004 23:58 (twenty years ago)

i'm always interested to read not-positive reviews of music i like. It seems not many other people are though.

. . . except it IS a positive review.

― Matos W.K. (M Matos), Thursday, 11 November 2004 00:00 (twenty years ago)

Matos yep anti-thinking is what I meant also.

― Ronan (Ronan), Thursday, 11 November 2004 00:01 (twenty years ago)

Kevin: It was aimed more at the thread premise and the original posts. I liked your comments. I guess it could have looked like I was directing it at you, sorry.

― sundar subramanian (sundar), Thursday, 11 November 2004 00:02 (twenty years ago)

can we delete this thread? jess is certainly lurking and jerking his pecker at the attention!

― Spinning Down Alone You Spin Alive (ex machina), Thursday, 11 November 2004 00:03 (twenty years ago)

also, i fail to see what ILX noiz3 has to do with wolf eyes.

― Spinning Down Alone You Spin Alive (ex machina), Thursday, 11 November 2004 00:03 (twenty years ago)

it's a noize retreat!

― s1ocki (slutsky), Thursday, 11 November 2004 00:04 (twenty years ago)

Oh, don't worry - I was just counting up 5, and thinking 'is it mine or the next one up'...shouldn't have taken it so literally. So what are the noise-dudez problems with this, then - I'm interested to hear what they see wrong with it...

― Kevin Gilchrist (Mr Fusion), Thursday, 11 November 2004 00:04 (twenty years ago)

(some x-posts)

― Kevin Gilchrist (Mr Fusion), Thursday, 11 November 2004 00:04 (twenty years ago)

well you all really tore Jess apart, well done guys.

― Ronan (Ronan), Thursday, 11 November 2004 00:06 (twenty years ago)

especially that jerking off thing, amazing

― Matos W.K. (M Matos), Thursday, 11 November 2004 00:06 (twenty years ago)

what is the point of making a in-joke in jab at ILX people in an article about wolf eyes? except to prove that you're a shallow boring hate-filled fuck

― Spinning Down Alone You Spin Alive (ex machina), Thursday, 11 November 2004 00:07 (twenty years ago)

Perhaps people are "anti-thinking" because they're tired of PoMo writers with too much time and not enough inspiration analyzing to bits anything and everything, particularly when it is something they have a personal investment in, and they don't care much for people who are in love with the sound of their own pen.

― oops (Oops), Thursday, 11 November 2004 00:08 (twenty years ago)

so ban all music critics?

― s1ocki (slutsky), Thursday, 11 November 2004 00:08 (twenty years ago)

why was it a jab jon? he simply said noize fans say "faggot" alot on internet messageboards, which on this one, some of them do.

is that a jab?

― Ronan (Ronan), Thursday, 11 November 2004 00:08 (twenty years ago)

It is a positive review of two different records.

― adam... (nordicskilla), Thursday, 11 November 2004 00:08 (twenty years ago)

Liberal use of vulgarities and other bits of "colourful language" is pure Jess, and I can see how that would be construed as "jaded" for someone who was encountering his writing for the first time. But most of us are familiar with his writing either from his published pieces or from ILX, so it should be easy for just about any ILXor to look past the writing style and immediately recognize that a line such as "calling Burned Mind the rawest Sub Pop release since those early Mudhoney and Tad singles is like saying Ebola is the worst disease since the flu" is a big compliment.

― MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Thursday, 11 November 2004 00:09 (twenty years ago)

I like this review (except maybe for the use of "po-faced"). This is my first encounter with Jess, the critic (as opposed to jess, the poster). He's a good writer!

― morris pavilion (samjeff), Thursday, 11 November 2004 00:10 (twenty years ago)

That said, I don't think I ever want to hear a SHOTM record.

― adam... (nordicskilla), Thursday, 11 November 2004 00:10 (twenty years ago)

i am a VERY SMALL subset of wolf eyes fans

― Spinning Down Alone You Spin Alive (ex machina), Thursday, 11 November 2004 00:10 (twenty years ago)

parts of this thread are sort of like watching DeRogatis react to Kelefa Sanneh, except less entertaining

― Matos W.K. (M Matos), Thursday, 11 November 2004 00:11 (twenty years ago)

yes slocki, that's what I was implying.

― oops (Oops), Thursday, 11 November 2004 00:11 (twenty years ago)

Skipping 778 messages at this point... Click here if you want to load them all.

Publicly using the word "faggot" as a term of abuse = Being a wanker. Stop whining and write something constructive, please.

― noodle vague (noodle vague), Sunday, 21 November 2004 22:41 (twenty years ago)

Anyway, I hope Ian's mother is doing fine.

― donut christ (donut), Monday, 22 November 2004 00:15 (twenty years ago)

http://www.seegod.org/images/Dealing%20with%20INSECURITY.jpg

― I'm serious ... Ti-i-i-i-im (deangulberry), Monday, 22 November 2004 00:37 (twenty years ago)

wait, so are there still idiots out there who think noise music "has no limitations" or not? i lost track of that one.

― six finger seattlite, Monday, 22 November 2004 00:59 (twenty years ago)

oh wait - so six finger seattlite is chuck? haha, awesome. I'm definitely with you on the "this is thread where i say" stuff and so forth.

Anyway, I hope Ian's mother is doing fine.
-- donut christ (do...), November 22nd, 2004 6:15 PM

yeah we can all agree on this...

oh, the Falcons won. They are really looking good. I wonder if Blount regrets trading me Crumpler .. :)

― Stormy Davis (diamond), Monday, 22 November 2004 01:13 (twenty years ago)

the amount of purposeful obtuseness here is sickening!

― miccio (miccio), Monday, 22 November 2004 01:54 (twenty years ago)

http://www.law.du.edu/miccio/images/Miccio.jpg

― I'm serious ... Ti-i-i-i-im (deangulberry), Monday, 22 November 2004 02:01 (twenty years ago)

I’m a pimp, you can check my stats
And rollin’ a fleetwood that’s how I mack
I rock all the tracks, so the world knows
I love all the girls smack all the hoes
Show love to those who come real with it
Life’s a bitch but I deal with it

I’m in it to win it like Yzerman
Can drink about 15 Heinekins
I’m not born again but if I was
I’d ask to come back with a little more love

Puffin’ a winston, drinkin’ a four-oh
Kid rock and I’m gonna let you know

I been sittin’ here just wastin’ time drinking, smoking, thinking, trying to free my mind
I been sittin’ here just wastin’ time drinking, smoking, trying to free my mind

It’s been a couple of months in this smokey room
Eatin’ shrooms, drinking boone’s
Writin’ tunes and hoping to get
One of these motherfucking songs to hit
A little bit of love that’s all I need
A little inspiration in a bag of weed
A seed to plant so my tree can grow
You know I left my girl cause I don’t need that
H-o-o-old-up wait a minute I’m about to flow
Like a breeze through the trees you can watch me blow

Puffin’ a winston, drinkin’ a four-oh
Kid rock and I’m gonna let you know

I been sittin’ here just wastin’ time drinking, smoking, thinking, trying to free my mind
I been sittin’ here just wastin’ time drinking, smoking, trying to free my mind

Oh yeah
Oh yeah
Free my mind... ooohhh yeah

I ain’t no rough guy, ain’t no tough guy
Don’t get out much, and don’t dress up fly
A pawn in the game that’s all I am

Givin’ all my duckets to uncle sam fuck it
I’m free to do what I please little lady
I was born at night but not last night baby
I’ve been around, seen some things

I’ve slept in dumpsters, got high with kings
I don’t bring much, ain’t got a lot to say
But I got more time then morris day

Puffin’ a winston, drinkin’ a four-oh
Kid rock and I’m gonna let you know

I been sittin’ here just wastin’ time drinking, smoking, thinking, trying to free my mind
I been sittin’ here just wastin’ time drinking, smoking, trying to free my mind
Smokin’ and drinkin’
I been sittin’here just wastin’ time drinking, smoking, thinking, trying to free my mind
Tryin’ to free my mind
I been sittin’ here just wastin’ time drinking, smoking, trying to free my mind
Wastin’ my time....hey I’m smokin’...hey I’m drinkin’...tryin’ to free my mind
I been sittin’ here just wastin’ time...drinking, smoking, trying to free my mind

― Stormy Davis (diamond), Monday, 22 November 2004 02:08 (twenty years ago)

http://www.tempesttours.com/Dean%20at%20the%20Beach%20Cropped.JPG

― miccio (miccio), Monday, 22 November 2004 02:14 (twenty years ago)

1. We intend to sing the love of danger, the habit of energy and fearlessness.
2. Courage, audacity, and revolt will be essential elements of our poetry.
3. Up to now literature has exalted a pensive immobility, ecstasy, and sleep. We intend to exalt aggresive action, a feverish insomnia, the racer’s stride, the mortal leap, the punch and the slap.
7. Except in struggle, there is no more beauty. No work without an aggressive character can be a masterpiece. Poetry must be conceived as a violent attack on unknown forces, to reduce and prostrate them before man.
8. We stand on the last promontory of the centuries!... Why should we look back, when what we want is to break down the mysterious doors of the Impossible? Time and Space died yesterday. We already live in the absolute, because we have created eternal, omnipresent speed.
9. We will glorify war—the world’s only hygiene—militarism, patriotism, the destructive gesture of freedom-bringers, beautiful ideas worth dying for, and scorn for woman.
10. We will destroy the museums, libraries, academies of every kind, will fight moralism, feminism, every opportunistic or utilitarian cowardice.

― Does John Coltrane Dream of a Merry-go-round? (ex machina), Monday, 22 November 2004 05:42 (twenty years ago)

11. No smoking

― Bernard the Butler (Lynskey), Monday, 22 November 2004 16:17 (twenty years ago)

LOL @ this thread. WTF people.

― Pashmina (Pashmina), Monday, 22 November 2004 16:21 (twenty years ago)

http://www.adh.bton.ac.uk/schoolofdesign/MA.COURSE/AFC/60.gif

― LSTD (answer) (sexyDancer), Monday, 22 November 2004 16:35 (twenty years ago)

six months pass...

Find threads from I Love Music, subject contains 'noise'.

89 results found:

― the Stanmore signal (nordicskilla), Friday, 17 June 2005 20:48 (twenty years ago)

hahahaha <3

― DAEREST V1CE MAGAZINE!!!!! (ex machina), Friday, 17 June 2005 20:58 (twenty years ago)

But no avail, on ILM girls are still icky and not allowed in the tree house without a mudpie to the face, thanks to the Noize Boys, who think their power drill symphonies are so much more sophisticated than everyone else.

― #1 GARU G FAN (ex machina), Monday, 20 June 2005 20:53 (twenty years ago)

Calling stuff "gay" isn't funny anymore, is it

― A Viking of Some Note (Andrew Thames), Monday, 20 June 2005 22:22 (twenty years ago)

http://metropolis.japantoday.com/xmg/498/Thunderpants.jpg

― Frogm@n Henry, Tuesday, 21 June 2005 06:12 (twenty years ago)

I don't think it was ever that funny (read: IT WAS K-LAME) in the first place.

― Pashmina (Pashmina), Tuesday, 21 June 2005 07:30 (twenty years ago)

k-gay 4eva

― 86 HAVE YOU EVER NEEDED SOMEONE SO BAD DEF LEPPARD (deangulberry), Tuesday, 21 June 2005 07:37 (twenty years ago)

calling stuff gay was never intended to be funny. it was intended to be an honest denigration of homosexuals.

― Ian John50n (orion), Tuesday, 21 June 2005 14:20 (twenty years ago)

Good one

― A Viking of Some Note (Andrew Thames), Tuesday, 21 June 2005 14:25 (twenty years ago)

Thanks for advancing the debate in such a mature manner.

― Ian John50n (orion), Tuesday, 21 June 2005 14:28 (twenty years ago)

strongo really is the king of all you fucking losers

― kthxby, Tuesday, 21 June 2005 14:35 (twenty years ago)

"all you fucking losers"

"twinkies and ding-dongs and cheese fries"

― Ian John50n (orion), Tuesday, 21 June 2005 14:36 (twenty years ago)

http://www.loc.gov/exhibits/oliphant/oa048.jpg

― Frogm@n Henry, Tuesday, 21 June 2005 14:40 (twenty years ago)

I find homophobia on internet message boards a real turn-on, so when I heard that the noise board was one big locker room of faggot jokes I immediately threw a rod and headed in there to make the scene- imagine my disappointment when they all turned out to be such sensitive dudes! Or was it that the presence of an actual queer in their midst made everyone put up their PC fellow traveler crisis shields? I will never know . . .

― Drew Daniel (Drew Daniel), Tuesday, 21 June 2005 15:29 (twenty years ago)

Nah they've always been wusses.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Tuesday, 21 June 2005 15:33 (twenty years ago)

Let's rub our penises together

― Ultragrill (ex machina), Tuesday, 21 June 2005 15:44 (twenty years ago)

Drew we're all aware they're not actually antigay, thanks

― A Viking of Some Note (Andrew Thames), Tuesday, 21 June 2005 15:46 (twenty years ago)

We just hate women, musical groups of women and Le Tigre.

― Ultragrill (ex machina), Tuesday, 21 June 2005 15:47 (twenty years ago)

two months pass...

Find threads from I Love Music, subject contains 'noise'.
100 results found:

― noise is shit, Wednesday, 14 September 2005 17:16 (twenty years ago)

one year passes...

i accidentally revived an ile thread with this:

:-o

http://idolator.com/tunes/announcements/please-welcome-the-houseguest-that-ends-up-staying-indefinitely-and-drinking-all-your-booze-279492.php

-- ^@^, Wednesday, July 18, 2007 4:01 PM (7 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

― ^@^, Wednesday, 18 July 2007 16:10 (eighteen years ago)

four months pass...

Top 10 ILM threads ever, easily

― Dom Passantino, Saturday, 8 December 2007 21:34 (seventeen years ago)

we're all dying to see your list

― Just got offed, Saturday, 8 December 2007 21:38 (seventeen years ago)

i miss jess

― max, Saturday, 8 December 2007 21:44 (seventeen years ago)

Also, I know nothing about Noize music and I'm basically confused by the Noize Dudes - I sense something vaguely sinister about it

― gershy, Saturday, 8 December 2007 21:59 (seventeen years ago)

NEVER FORGET
http://home.uchicago.edu/~jniimi/keithjessmatos.JPG

― gershy, Saturday, 8 December 2007 22:02 (seventeen years ago)

http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee234/michelle__7/alfy.jpg

― Heave Ho, Saturday, 8 December 2007 22:02 (seventeen years ago)

there is alot of anti-writing sentiment here.

-- Ronan (Ronan), Wednesday, 10 November 2004 23:52 (3 years ago) Bookmark Link

― Dom Passantino, Saturday, 8 December 2007 22:05 (seventeen years ago)

regrettable thread.

― ian, Saturday, 8 December 2007 22:07 (seventeen years ago)

it comes across as hopelessly bitter and jaded.

― s1ocki, Saturday, 8 December 2007 22:53 (seventeen years ago)

i don't know who these noize dudes think they are but i love me some jess harble

― cutty, Sunday, 9 December 2007 00:09 (seventeen years ago)

i miss jess

-- max, Saturday, 8 December 2007 21:44 (Yesterday) Link

otm

― latebloomer, Sunday, 9 December 2007 00:11 (seventeen years ago)

for_real_though.jpeg

― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Sunday, 9 December 2007 00:15 (seventeen years ago)

This thread needs to play music.

-- adam... (nordicskilla), Thursday, 11 November 2004 00:16 (3 years ago) Bookmark Link

― Dom Passantino, Sunday, 9 December 2007 00:29 (seventeen years ago)

Weird - I had no recollection whatever of ever reading this entire thread until reaching the Mexican-food digression-bit.

― Myonga Vön Bontee, Sunday, 9 December 2007 00:31 (seventeen years ago)

iz senor hormel 2 busy with idolator or whatever else he's doing?

― latebloomer, Sunday, 9 December 2007 00:33 (seventeen years ago)

i like how ronan came out guns blazing for his chum's freedom of speech and then spent the next 3 years bitching about haircut house n00bs not respecting the legacy of mr fingers

― r|t|c, Sunday, 9 December 2007 01:18 (seventeen years ago)

uh, it IS a positive review. he clearly likes both records and says so.

-- Matos W.K. (M Matos)

http://www.spidervillain.com/Cast/JonahJameson/JonahJamesonMU.gif

― scott seward, Sunday, 9 December 2007 01:23 (seventeen years ago)

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Jess Harvell: hates noise dudes and hippies, has no point (NOT SAFE FOR WORK - mod)