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Momus declared Squarepusher as "Stuck in 95." The last Aphex album sucked! Mike Paradinas makes shitty gabber and sold his ponytail on Ebay. Matmos just toured the world with a muthafuckin orchestra. What the fuck. Is IDM DEAD?!?!?!

― chaki, Sunday, 23 December 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

and i realize idm is a poopy name for a genre in the first place!

― chaki, Sunday, 23 December 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I think the phase of wacky autuers on Warp IDM is basically dead, basically because the movement's core has shifted elsewhere - to Mille Plateux, basically. Interesting to think about how right through the period of Warp's unquestioned ascendancy in this area, MP offered such an intriguing alternative take on the same concept. Now that MP holds the agenda setting position that once belonged to Warp, I'm not sure which label has the position MP used to - and I don't just mean what alternative IDM-associated labels there are, but which one is for better or worse emblematic for the "road less travelled".

― Tim, Sunday, 23 December 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

It is interesting, isn't it? There was a time when listening to Squarepusher's "big loada" made me feel like I was listening to pop music of the 22nd century. When I listen to it now, it's almost as if I'm listening to an old Neil Young record. It's great, amazing, but it's in the past. That is not to say that Tom Jenkinson isn't a progressive musician...all those original Warp fellows are quite brillliant minds. But if you're looking for what the future holds for IDM, it's hybrids. It's always about the hybrids. As composer Morton Feldman said "Don't knock the hybrids, they're the only thing left." I believe IDM will become something else, which will become something else. Sometimes though, honestly, to label something is to kill it immediately. So perhaps IDM never lived. Oh, deep thought.

― Gage-o, Sunday, 23 December 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Warp, as a forward thinking label, is dead. The only thing they released this year was a collection of love lorn folk acoustic numbers (Vincent Gallo) and an American with a penchant for static distroted hip hop (Prefuse73). I think the attention has been diverted to both America (Tigerbeat6 and Plug Research) and Germany (Mille Plateaux, City Centre Offices, Morr Music, and Kompakt). Look there for the new in IDM.

― todd burns, Sunday, 23 December 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I like the Chris Clark release on Warp.

― chaki, Sunday, 23 December 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Aye, thats a real strong release. Confield was good to me no matter what anyone else says.

― Brock K., Sunday, 23 December 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I agree that Chris Clark's release is good on Warp, but is it forward thinking in anyway in that it isn't something that Squarepusher did a few years ago? I'm of the opinion that it isn't and I love to hear evidence to the contrary. As for Autechre, I think my friend said it best when he wanted to hear beautiful songs and only got beautiful math equations. It's beautiful, but you've got to concentrate long and hard to get the full enjoyment out of it. Not that I'm not up to it sometimes...but there is something about the immediacy of both Gallo and Prefuse73 that aren't present in the Autechre mode of song making. I guess you could call it accessibility, if you want to get right down to it, but I think there is much to be said for something that is both immediately accessible and offers deep rewards on further listens which I thought LP5 and Tri Repetae offered more so than Confield.

― todd burns, Monday, 24 December 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

With Autechre, they are still Warp's mainstay tendril in the future of sound, but sort of by default. Booth/Brown's fascination with the "science fiction" aspect of creating music will always throw them forward . Sure, it's hyper-math, but so is the symmetry of the fucking cosmos, you know? The major complaint that I hear most is that their newer stuff is "difficult to listen to," as compared to earlier music. I think that specific major complaint sort of lets us perceive the fact that there is something going on with them...a type of progression, a deliberate evolution of sorts. I know people who couldn't even begin to try to relate to the opening track of LP5 who , (what? how many years later?) , now bop their head to it rhythmically. Maybe the are lost in their maths, maybe we are behind in our adaption to the future of sound. ok, babble babble.

― Gage-o, Monday, 24 December 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

With Autechre, they are still Warp's mainstay tendril in the future of sound, but sort of by default. Booth/Brown's fascination with the "science fiction" aspect of creating music will always throw them forward . Sure, it's hyper-math, but so is the symmetry of the fucking cosmos, you know? The major complaint that I hear most is that their newer stuff is "difficult to listen to," as compared to earlier music. I think that specific major complaint sort of lets us perceive the fact that there is something going on with them...a type of progression, a deliberate evolution of sorts. I know people who couldn't even begin to try to relate to the opening track of LP5 who , (what? how many years later?) , now bop their head to it rhythmically. Maybe they are lost in their maths, maybe we are behind in our adaption to the future of sound. ok, babble babble.

― Gage-o, Monday, 24 December 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

warp is indeed a barely relevant label these days, it's all about the tigerbeat6/plug research set. i'm still trying to figure out why this board seems to collecively dislike kid606, i love im.

― marek, Monday, 24 December 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

perhaps the future of idm revolves around series of street-rap style "camps" of artists (these essentially already exist.. you've got your cornwall camp, your bay area camp, your munich camp, etc) and the conflicts between them (arguably this has already begun.. think of kid606's and lesser's "diss" tracks aimed at luke vibert and oval, respectively). idm will go on appropriating as many street-rap idioms as possible.. think film appearances, model-dating, fashion lines, shootings, award-show anarchy. it could happen.

― marek, Monday, 24 December 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I think the Kid 606 hatas are more vocal than the fans (another hip hop parallel!). I at least love P.S. I Love You which is the most I've heard of him.

― Tim, Monday, 24 December 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

it's probably because most of six-ought-six's output (i havent heard the "ambient" stuff, so i dont know 'bout that none) is typical idm parasitic dance-manouvers. the "not-an-original-idea-in-him" syndrome. which is fine, if the rips and pisstakes are clever/interesting. he's got a 50/50 ratio, or thereabouts. his contributions to both clicks and cuts and the clickhop record have been pretty okay, so maybe he's better in small doses. but, like most idm of this stripe, i'd rather listen to a marvellous cain track, a mover track, hell merzbow for that matter.

― jess, Monday, 24 December 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

P.S. I Love You is beautiful with just a hint of disturbance, and Josh was correct in noting that it would have fitted in with my article perfectly (as I imagine Fennesz would, though I've yet to get anything by him) - although as Josh also noted, I wasn't aiming for an exhaustive overview.

― Tim, Tuesday, 25 December 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

>think of kid606's and lesser's "diss" tracks aimed at luke vibert and oval

I don't think your idea of street rap idioms going on in IDM, as facetious, as it sounded on paper is that far off from what the new American guard of IDM has in mind. I think Kid606, from his earlier releases, brought back a definite punk attitude, as well as Lesser. It doesn't seem like, to me, that the Europeans were ever interested in the cult of personality like the Americans, at least in regards to showing their face, unlike Richard D. James who would show his ugly mug and make up stories of sleeping 2 hours a day and having 20 albums worth of material in the can for release at any time. A shortness in press and a reluctance to talk about their music has sort have been my impression of Germans and some English IDM groups, while an eagerness and brashness seems to me to be the American style. So maybe it is more of a cult of personality that defines the American conception of the IDM artist as more of a rock star than an artist. I'm always reminded to the Cex track 'Fur Coat' when talking about this where he has a mock skit where 'micro-house' blew up and all of these IDM artists are at the MTV music awards instead of Britney and all of the pop stars of today. Is that far off? Yes. Is a less faceless and more pronounced genre of IDM coming up? Yes. As long as it continues to get in with Bjork, I'm sure Madonna will pick up where she left off in a couple of years, since she seems to latch on to the current trends a few years late, anyhow. Back to the original topic...you have to look farther than Warp to find IDM now. Because Warp was amazing in 95 as Momus indirectly contends. But today? Just another label, IMO.

― todd burns, Tuesday, 25 December 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Squarepusher, to me, cant sound "95" or "drill n bass" or whatever. Even though he uses those classic sounds. His music tears up so much shit and has so much variety, that it actually trancends genres, years, bullshit, alltogether. Today I was listening to Hard Normal Daddy. There are times on that album that his bass playing rivals Jaco at his most frantic. You cant tell me that shit is 95.

― chiznaki, Friday, 28 December 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

No dude, that shit is so '98. ;-)

― Tim, Friday, 28 December 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Well, Hard Normal Daddy is his classic drill 'n bass record. But I think that parts of Big Loada and Feed Me Weird Things do sound dated. I'm really interested in understanding exactly why he went from his jazz phase back into the same sort of sound that he was creating back around the Big Loada era. Does anyone know any reason or read any interview about this?

― todd burns, Friday, 28 December 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

the premonitions aired that idm will either 'blow-up' or dissipate into the ether (or a combination of the two) are accurate insomuch that the genre will no longer rely on being self-contained. it will assimilate other genres of music as it is in turn being assimilated (radiohead and bjork now, madonna and kylie next) without simply pastiching other styles as novelty (squarepusher's 'garage' sound may be novelty now, but if it sounds good then more people will take sincere cues from that).

it would also seem likely that the purely mathematical base of IDM (autechre etc) will continue to lose some ground as people gravitate both to more easily-digestible or melodic variations, or more innovative genre-cutting strands of the movement.

and yes, IDM is a truly abominable name. but only if you consider what it actually stands for...

― david, Saturday, 29 December 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

<>

He says hes always done both. He just doesnt release everything. He's been jamming in bands with his mates and making electronic music since his early teens. I heard Yee King and him jam sometimes.

― chaki, Saturday, 29 December 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

all music is shit. "idm" is nowt but vainglorious fakery shit never was any good to start with. just like jazz. just like hip hop etc etc

― bob snoom, Thursday, 3 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Relevant to the times or no, the 2001 releases by Squarepusher and AFX still got me excited. So there.
In a few years, this sound will be revived and everyone will wonder why wasn't this stuff explored further by more people at the time. The answer probably being something to do with the insatiable desire for the new (and at the same time the laments of "nothing is 'new' anymore, everything's recycled") and the identifying of trends that marked (cursed?) the 90s.

― Jeff W, Friday, 4 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Shit has been explored to death already. It's 10 frickin years old. Mille Plateaux are as predictable as anybody else, if not more so.

― Ben Williams, Friday, 4 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Jeff, blaming the dance music listeners might work if you backed it up with positive evidence in favour of drill & bass's longevity. Its problem has been (as you yourself half-imply) its failure to expand beyond its own self-imposed borders, covering far less ground sonically or stylistically than the supposedly formula- bound jungle it was providing a more artistic version of. It would seem to me that Mouse On Mars, who have done a similar IDM- take on drum & bass over a similar time period, have pursued this line more inventively and innovatively than most of the proper drill & bass artists, and maybe that's part of why they still get props around these parts (and I say these parts because Aphex Twin and Squarepusher still get mad props everywhere). Squarepusher coming to terms with 2-step is the first really interesting thing he's done in ages, and he certainly got enough media attention for it, though since I reckon the intention behind the move is sneery superiority times ten, its sonic shelflife is probably severely limited before it's even made.

Plus, there's literally hundreds of IDM producers working in this general area *right now*, so if the area hasn't been explored enough it's not due to a lack of artists trying (or, presumably, an audience listening).

Oh, and "insatiable desire for the new" = something of a myth, I think. House has barely changed in fifteen years and it's still the most popular form of dance music in the UK. Boards & Canada and Plaid are perhaps the most classicist of the Warp artists and (apart from Prefuse 73) have received the most respect recently. Dance music has just as much reverence for the past and emphasis on continuity as any other area of music, and if anything it only grows stronger as time passes.

― Tim, Friday, 4 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

"Dance music has just as much reverence for the past and emphasis on continuity as any other area of music, and if anything it only grows stronger as time passes."

Yes... but this is because dance music is formally exhausted. Doesn't mean there isn't good new stuff coming out all the time, but that frisson (however temporary and superficial it may be) that only the shock of the new can provide is gone... so naturally, tradition comes to the fore (it's really time for a dance music canon).

In the case of IDM... well, it's always worked within a more limited space than most other forms of dance music. (It's defined by the fact that you can't dance to it, for a start.) The only new thing that's happened with IDM in the last 3 years or so is glitch; lovely, but not what you'd call a broad palette. Has anyone really done anything with glitch that Oval didn't cover with 94 Diskont? I like Jan Jenelik, Fennesz et al, but ultimately I don't know that I need to keep more than a couple of those discs around the house... they're not "all the same" by any means, but they're not particularly different either...

― Ben Williams, Saturday, 5 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

"...dance music is formally exhausted."

Actually, this is more of a problem than with most artforms when you're dealing with a music in which form has for the most part been defined as content (the fact that this is less true for house than, say, techno being one reason for its longevity)...

― Ben Williams, Saturday, 5 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

"is IDM dead?"

no, and you CAN dance to it, or some of it, if you want to. Mount Florida. Marcia Blaine School for Girls. I'll think of some non-Glasgow answers in a minute.

("formally exhausted" - yes, no, who cares? blue jean design is pretty formally exhausted too. but the nuances...)

― Tracer Hand, Saturday, 5 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

"drill & bass ... Its problem has been ... its failure to expand beyond its own self-imposed borders, covering far less ground sonically or stylistically than the supposedly formula-bound jungle it was providing a more artistic version of"
No, the problem is inventing these divides in the first place. And I'm not blaming anyone in particular for this, let alone "dance music listeners" (who are they?)

― Jeff W (genrephobe and proud), Monday, 7 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Well presumably if (late-period) Aphex Twin and Squarepusher haven't been given the attention they deserved, its because the "audience" deserted them. They both get more than enough promotional push and critical accolades (indeed, enough to suggest that they haven't been undervalued at all, Momus notwithstanding).

And the artists have to take some of the responsibility for being separate from jungle, because a) said separation was their schtick to begin with, and b) their music is largely unsuited for dancing (Gareth says drill & bass club-nights can go off, but I've never been to one where more than one or two people actually used the dancefloor, and even then it wouldn't have been AT or Squarepusher who was playing).

― Tim, Monday, 7 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

one year passes...
There are times on that album that his bass playing rivals Jaco at his most frantic. Delete IDM.

― Barnaby (Barnaby), Sunday, 15 June 2003 18:36 (twenty-two years ago)

but when are they releasing the unplugged album?

oh, the side splitting humour.

― frenchbloke (frenchbloke), Sunday, 15 June 2003 19:48 (twenty-two years ago)

both of you should not type anymore ever

― chaki (chaki), Sunday, 15 June 2003 22:37 (twenty-two years ago)

chaki wins.

― Mr. Diamond (diamond), Sunday, 15 June 2003 22:38 (twenty-two years ago)

IDM is dead as hell tho.

― Mike Taylor (mjt), Monday, 16 June 2003 03:04 (twenty-two years ago)

i kilt that no-good sonofabitch meself

― electric sound of jim (electricsound), Monday, 16 June 2003 03:05 (twenty-two years ago)

all the intelligent folk are listening to DDM these days

― gaz (gaz), Monday, 16 June 2003 03:08 (twenty-two years ago)

no, they all went back to rock n' roll high school.

― Mike Taylor (mjt), Monday, 16 June 2003 03:10 (twenty-two years ago)

haha Mike OTM as least as far as I'm concerned

― Millar (Millar), Monday, 16 June 2003 03:12 (twenty-two years ago)

QUESTION: Does the recurrence of IDM threads in the last week or so mean there has been/is about to be a gestalt shift towards IDM as once again relevant?

And is it because the era of the laptop auteur is over?

― Mike Taylor (mjt), Monday, 16 June 2003 03:13 (twenty-two years ago)


mego is still pretty hot in many ways.

etcetcet


Round and round
With love we'll find a way just give it time
Round and round
What comes around goes around
I'll tell you why

-ratt
m.

― msp, Monday, 16 June 2003 03:47 (twenty-two years ago)


so is carpark, schematic, and leaf to name a few others.

even warp and tigerbeat6 have found new ways to move on....
m.

― msp, Monday, 16 June 2003 03:48 (twenty-two years ago)

I think the resurgence is an indication that after two years we're tired of the sucking already and miss the old days

― Millar (Millar), Monday, 16 June 2003 03:54 (twenty-two years ago)

thats why ive come to save the day

― chaki (chaki), Monday, 16 June 2003 07:27 (twenty-two years ago)

is it not really a case of heard it done before or oh, that sounds like so-and-so? very rarely do you hear something and think what the fuck was that? and why does the venetian snares songs about my cats album trigger the safety on one of my amps - turn it up louder than 2 and the speakers get switched off.

i like my tinkly bonk music and can scratch my chin along with the best of them, but churning out the same old same old isn't doing anyone any favours.

― frenchbloke (frenchbloke), Monday, 16 June 2003 08:30 (twenty-two years ago)

tinkly bonk music? tunes for watersports?

― electric sound of jim (electricsound), Monday, 16 June 2003 09:19 (twenty-two years ago)

hmm, now theres an idea....wonder if i could persuade the missus


probably not.

― frenchbloke (frenchbloke), Monday, 16 June 2003 09:33 (twenty-two years ago)

i've just discovered ö-ziq's 'bilious paths' album, its great

― stevem (blueski), Monday, 16 June 2003 10:34 (twenty-two years ago)

i'd assumed it was mid 90s by the sound of it but apprently its totally nu. not sure what to make of that. it does kick tho.

― stevem (blueski), Monday, 16 June 2003 10:36 (twenty-two years ago)

IDM?!?!? Isn't that the thing where they have some tinkly New Age tune, and stick about 5 different jungle records going at 10 times the speed on top of it?!??!?

― Old Fart!!! (oldfart_sd), Monday, 16 June 2003 11:16 (twenty-two years ago)

yes, now take your badge and go.

― stevem (blueski), Monday, 16 June 2003 11:20 (twenty-two years ago)

Which badge are you referring to young man?!?!? The one that says "That was a joke, you know!!!!"??!?!

― Old Fart!!! (oldfart_sd), Monday, 16 June 2003 11:53 (twenty-two years ago)

that reminds me i must get that !!! record

― stevem (blueski), Monday, 16 June 2003 12:28 (twenty-two years ago)

i'd assumed it was mid 90s by the sound of it but apprently its totally nu. not sure what to make of that.

what you should make of that is the correct assumption that µ-ziq has not changed his sound appreciably since 1996 (much like everybody else)

― Millar (Millar), Monday, 16 June 2003 21:35 (twenty-two years ago)

five years pass...

IDM?!?!? Isn't that the thing where they have some tinkly New Age tune, and stick about 5 different jungle records going at 10 times the speed on top of it?!??!?

― Old Fart!!!

― ǝɟɟɐzǝɟ (☪), Saturday, 13 December 2008 11:10 (seventeen years ago)

He said that like it was a bad thing.

Here is the clue: manifesto of infinite progression = bad thing. Records that sound like dope hybrids of acid, John Zorn and post-Bitches Miles = good thing. Records that sound boring = bad thing.

― Me and Ruth Lorenzo, Rollin' in the Benzo (Noodle Vague), Saturday, 13 December 2008 12:44 (seventeen years ago)

Just to get it out of the way, half the people on The Intelligent Dance Music mailing list hated the name from before "IDM" entered the critical vocabulary. The nomenclature alone was enough to raise the ire of most critics that covered electronica. There are some artists within the field (Ae) whose recordings may very well be viewed in a hundred years like the developmental arc of important academic composers. Its a narrow appreciation, but its more of a legacy than most outsider electronica gets.

But the music itself just got progressively insular and resistent to hybridization (which is the death knell for just about any electronic genre, excepting house for some reason). The fans migrated over to microhouse/mnml, which someone here glibly but correctly described as "the IDM its okay to like".

― derelict, Saturday, 13 December 2008 15:34 (seventeen years ago)

Frankly, I love IDM (and frankly think it's silly that people are still hung up on the name) inflected microhouse and techno, and would take it over soul/deep oriented sounds any day of the week. I really very much resent the notion that this (or any sort of sound design oriented "computer" music) is inherently bad. Just because it became insular and alienating (as a professor I had would always say w/r/t to modernist literature - which this parallels well enough this - it lost the audience), really shouldn't mean it has to be thrown out. Granted I'm talking more about method and sound design practises than the actual product.

― Girlfriend, you've been scooped like ice cream (mehlt), Saturday, 13 December 2008 17:29 (seventeen years ago)

I was listening to some Boxcutter not too long ago, really crazy vaguely drill n' bass type stuff, fused with more contemporary dubstep sounds, and it just sounded fantastic to me.

― Girlfriend, you've been scooped like ice cream (mehlt), Saturday, 13 December 2008 17:31 (seventeen years ago)


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