TS: Ween's "The HIV Song" vs Team America Sndtrk's "Everyone Has AIDS"

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The latter way better than the former.

john'n'chicago, Friday, 19 November 2004 22:26 (twenty-one years ago)

Both work perfectly in their respective contexts.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 19 November 2004 22:28 (twenty-one years ago)

Yeah but the Meatmen's whole first album wins.

martin m. (mushrush), Friday, 19 November 2004 22:31 (twenty-one years ago)

Me, Mom and Morgentaler's "Everybody's got AIDS"

superultramega (superultramarinated), Friday, 19 November 2004 23:19 (twenty-one years ago)

Here's where I always go all suddenly humorless and disappoint myself. There is that "laughing with/laughing at" divide, and we all walk it when it's time to joke about something that is supposedly "not funny". And of course that's precisely why it becomes hysterically funny, for that very reason that a prohibition is shown up as optional. And yet . . .

Drew Daniel (Drew Daniel), Friday, 19 November 2004 23:19 (twenty-one years ago)

Hence my trumping both songs with the first Meatmen record. Cause like, if you thought the Ween song was in poor taste...

martin m. (mushrush), Friday, 19 November 2004 23:21 (twenty-one years ago)

But the Ween song's kinda just baiting you- I mean the lyrics don't say anything, it's just the repetition of the words AIDS and HIV. Personally, I don't find the Meatmen all that offensive- at least if you have "Tooling For Anus" in mind for its homophobia? It's obviously humorous, and the idea of these giggly little straight boys doing skits about rimming each other actually winds up being more perverse in its cross-identification than any tired Rupaul record. But the Trey Parker thing kinda bugs me, I must say. I guess it's just that mockery of queer activism for the sake of dead friends is just an index of straight white guy privilege. His community perceives itself as immune, so he can afford to laff his ass off, and invites the implied straight white listener to do the same. African American infection rates ain't so funny these days . . .

Drew Daniel (Drew Daniel), Friday, 19 November 2004 23:28 (twenty-one years ago)

Is it so much a mockery of that as it is Rent, though? I think your point is a good one -- indeed makes perfect sense knowing Parker and Stone.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 19 November 2004 23:31 (twenty-one years ago)

I don't think the Meatmen are all that offensive either (and man I just want to brag about the fact that I found that first one on white vinyl not too long ago). I think they're baiting as much as Ween except they're taking it a bit further.

And forget "Tooling For Anus." I was thinking more that "Crippled Children Suck" is several rungs below "The HIV Song" on the Ladder of Tastefulness. Even if, in it's over the top ridiculousness, it's actually pretty funny.

Granted, I shouldn't have spoken up so soon since I'm actually not familiar with the other song in the TS pair.

martin m. (mushrush), Friday, 19 November 2004 23:33 (twenty-one years ago)

Yeah, I must admit, the "noble activist mourner" thing is pretty much a cliché; I am lucky enough not to have heard even a millisecond of Rent, maybe you're right.

... and I haven't seen the film, I should also add. If it's as funny as the South Park movie was then I'm sure it's hilarious. On the subject of AIDS humor, it's a shame fewer people have seen "Diseased Pariah News", which was a humor zine made by and for people with HIV, complete with centerfolds of HIVers in hospital gowns. Some of the grimmest, blackest humor I have ever encountered.

Drew Daniel (Drew Daniel), Friday, 19 November 2004 23:34 (twenty-one years ago)

"If it's as funny as the South Park movie was then I'm sure it's hilarious."

It's not. But it does have some very amusing bits. And the Rent parody is one of them.

Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Friday, 19 November 2004 23:35 (twenty-one years ago)

But yeah, what little I know about that song is that it was spoofing Rent.

Sadly though, Rent itself is more like a caracature of a folklore version of some kinda weird bohemian life in NYC. I had the misfortune to see Rent when I lived in the city. It's a pretty easy target...

Then again easy targets also make perfect sense knowing Parker and Stone.

martin m. (mushrush), Friday, 19 November 2004 23:36 (twenty-one years ago)

Which isn't necessarily me raggin' on them.

Shit, I still laugh when someone farts in church. Or I would if I actually still went to church.

martin m. (mushrush), Friday, 19 November 2004 23:37 (twenty-one years ago)

On the subject of The Meatmen, I always thought Tesco Vee was kinda hot on the cover of that "Dutch Courage" 7", personally.

*hides*

Drew Daniel (Drew Daniel), Friday, 19 November 2004 23:46 (twenty-one years ago)

"Dutch Hercules", I meant to say.

*still hiding tho*

Drew Daniel (Drew Daniel), Friday, 19 November 2004 23:50 (twenty-one years ago)

That one Touch and Go CD that collects most of the early stuff is a work of art...sorta.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 19 November 2004 23:50 (twenty-one years ago)

So . . . are there any good songs (besides the two mentioned above) that are directly about AIDS or HIV?

I recall a rumor that Fugazi's "Waiting Room" was about waiting for test results- is that true?

Drew Daniel (Drew Daniel), Saturday, 20 November 2004 00:27 (twenty-one years ago)

directy about aids? none pop to my head immediately. jimmy sommerville's "for a friend" is a masterpiece of beauty about the aftermath...

john'n'chicago, Saturday, 20 November 2004 00:35 (twenty-one years ago)

Similarly Boy George's quite moving "Il Adore" and American Music Club's "Rise" regarding friends/acquaintances who were ill.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 20 November 2004 00:47 (twenty-one years ago)

Yeah, it's sort of like treating 9/11 or Auschwitz as a "topic", it kind of repels the sort of controls on emotion that good art tends to require. Not that it can't be done, but it's just much much harder to draw the line between ethically compelling reportage and "art" with a capital A. There are *lots* of oblique depictions of being an AIDS caregiver in gay lit of the past few decades, few if any that I could actually put up with for long.

So is Van Morrisson's "TB sheets" the exception that proves the "songs about illnesses = dud" rule?

Drew Daniel (Drew Daniel), Saturday, 20 November 2004 00:54 (twenty-one years ago)

I guess Thom Gunn's "The Man with Night Sweats" collection of AIDS poems works well, and Derek Jarman's film "Blue", now that I think of it.

Drew Daniel (Drew Daniel), Saturday, 20 November 2004 00:55 (twenty-one years ago)

There are probably others, Drew, but I'll have to think about it -- one of the most affecting, I think, is by the Kitchens of Distinction but is not explicitly either about AIDS or gay men, interestingly enough given their forwardness on gay sexuality in general. It's called "Her Last Day in Bed," and more than once I found myself playing it when considering the passing of people.

Now currently listening to the Meatmen OH YEAH.

Am planning on kicking more serious thoughts into the criteria thread here in a sec, hopefully.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 20 November 2004 00:57 (twenty-one years ago)

Yeah I guess I have derailed the Trey Parker vibe here a wee bit.

Ooops!

Turn up The Meatmen and rage on!

Drew Daniel (Drew Daniel), Saturday, 20 November 2004 01:00 (twenty-one years ago)

Am planning on kicking more serious thoughts into the criteria thread here in a sec, hopefully.

Can't be done while listening to the Meatmen, Ned...

Can I just say again how fucking floored I was to find an original copy of the first one on white vinyl in incredible condition? Cause like, punks never take care of their records, and the ones who do rarely sell them to used record stores.

I got it at the same place where I got that copy of The Pod on double vinyl priced at $14!!! One of my favorite things about having moved to Seattle, no doubt.

Of course a few weekends ago I broke the $400 mark at Amoeba in Berkeley. Heheh. So I've not put all my eggs in Seattle's basket or anything.

martin m. (mushrush), Saturday, 20 November 2004 01:03 (twenty-one years ago)

Yeah it is odd when there's a vinyl time capsule in weirdly mint condition. I had the same thing happen with T.S.O.L.'s "Dance WIth Me" the other day, there it was at Amoeba, ostensibly used yet fresh as a daisy . . . possibly confiscated in a music appreciation class and then set free? (which actually happened to my 12" copy of Sonic Youth's "Halloween" EP in high school)

Drew Daniel (Drew Daniel), Saturday, 20 November 2004 01:07 (twenty-one years ago)

Can't be done while listening to the Meatmen, Ned...

I shall challenge that! Besides, Drew has asked good questions. :-)

Of course a few weekends ago I broke the $400 mark at Amoeba in Berkeley.

I love moments like that.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 20 November 2004 01:07 (twenty-one years ago)

Of course a few weekends ago I broke the $400 mark at Amoeba in Berkeley.

I love moments like that.

Yeah well... Jen and I did a weekend trip to SF just to go record shopping, only I bought so many records that I compromised our ability to only travel with carry-on bags for the way home!

martin m. (mushrush), Saturday, 20 November 2004 01:09 (twenty-one years ago)

I had the same thing happen with T.S.O.L.'s "Dance WIth Me" the other day

Man whoever sold this place the Meatmen also unloaded an assload of old punk, all in great condition. Unfortunately I wasn't up to spending the kind of money they were asking for it. I spent $20 on the Meatmen record cause of all of them it was the one that most interested me, and I had to leave there with at least one of these gems I'm unlikely ever to see in that shape in a used rack again.

The Ween thing I still don't get, cause this place doesn't seem to be the kind to mistakenly underprice something that drastically. The damn thing was mint. And I'm sitting there in line thinking "Do these guys not know that I can flip this on ebay for around $100?" Of course I'd never do it cause like, it's MY COPY NOW.

martin m. (mushrush), Saturday, 20 November 2004 01:12 (twenty-one years ago)

Okay, Martin, maybe you're right in that I completely forgot about Tesco singing/grunting "Buttocks...buttocks, I LOVE BUTTOCKS."

Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 20 November 2004 01:22 (twenty-one years ago)

I was just about to say... Wait for the buttocks.

martin m. (mushrush), Saturday, 20 November 2004 01:34 (twenty-one years ago)

Team America was boring.

"The HIV Song" is also boring.

"Spinal Menningitis (Got Me Down)" is awesome. There's a disease song I can totally get with.

J (Jay), Saturday, 20 November 2004 01:40 (twenty-one years ago)

The punked up live version of "The HIV Song" on Live in Chicago kinda rocks, though.

Every country has their stupid (AaronHz), Saturday, 20 November 2004 01:43 (twenty-one years ago)

Don't touch the mic like there's AIDS on it

MC Transmaniacon (natepatrin), Saturday, 20 November 2004 01:54 (twenty-one years ago)

So . . . are there any good songs (besides the two mentioned above) that are directly about AIDS or HIV?

IIRC, "Positive" by Disposable Heroes Of Hiphoprisy is about a straight guy waiting for test results (then they come back clear and he's all like 'phew, condoms for me from now on! that was stressful')

kit brash (kit brash), Saturday, 20 November 2004 01:58 (twenty-one years ago)

So . . . are there any good songs (besides the two mentioned above) that are directly about AIDS or HIV?

Domino Dancing!!

Mr. Snrub, Saturday, 20 November 2004 14:10 (twenty-one years ago)

i'm surprised that i am the first one to mention anal cunt in this thread ... methinks that dave q is slacking off!

Eisbär (llamasfur), Saturday, 20 November 2004 14:17 (twenty-one years ago)

He said GOOD songs, Mr. Snrub!

The Ghost of Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Saturday, 20 November 2004 15:49 (twenty-one years ago)

How could I have forgotten Pubic Enemy's sensitive and poignant "Meet the G that Killed Me"?

john'n'chicago, Saturday, 20 November 2004 15:55 (twenty-one years ago)


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