File Sharing Is Killing Music...

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BPI releases third-quarter market review : 26:11:2004

The third quarter of 2004 concluded the best 12 months for album sales in UK record industry history, with shipments hitting an all-time high of 237 million units.

Highlights:
>new British artists drive UK album sales, 11 of the Top 20 albums for the quarter were British-signed, with four by debut acts. The Top Five singles were all by UK artists.

> downloads drive single-track sales up 9.4% in the third quarter with 1.75 million sales

> more impressive gains in music DVD sales - quarterly sales are up 52.1% on 2003


Top 20 Artist Albums, 12 months to end Sept 2004

1, LIFE FOR RENT, DIDO
2, FRIDAY'S CHILD, WILL YOUNG
3, ELEPHUNK, BLACK EYED PEAS
4, CALL OFF THE SEARCH, KATIE MELUA
5, NUMBER ONES, MICHAEL JACKSON
6, IN TIME - THE BEST OF - 1988-2003, REM
7, FEELS LIKE HOME, NORAH JONES
8, HOPES AND FEARS, KEANE
9, A PRESENT FOR EVERYONE, BUSTED
10, GREATEST HITS, RED HOT CHILI PEPPERS
11, PERMISSION TO LAND, DARKNESS
12, SCISSOR SISTERS, SCISSOR SISTERS
13, GREATEST HITS, GUNS N' ROSES
14, CONFESSIONS, USHER
15, TWENTYSOMETHING, JAMIE CULLUM
16, ANASTACIA, ANASTACIA
17, SONGS ABOUT JANE, MAROON 5
18, THREE, SUGABABES
19, A GRAND DON'T COME FOR FREE, STREETS
20, TURNAROUND, WESTLIFE

Why Does Herr Dadaismus Run Amok? (Dada), Friday, 26 November 2004 10:19 (twenty-one years ago)

That list is killing music, for the most part.

mark grout (mark grout), Friday, 26 November 2004 10:21 (twenty-one years ago)

The old timers among us will remember when Home Taping Was Killing Music. Funnily enough, music is still with us and it's home taping that's at death's door.

Why Does Herr Dadaismus Run Amok? (Dada), Friday, 26 November 2004 10:23 (twenty-one years ago)

I was just thinking about this today, and wondered what the latest industry sales figures were. I'm curious how the American industry is doing.

I mean, file sharing and CD-burning has been going on for a few years now, and all that "the industry will die! bands won't be able to survive and make music!" hoopla has just simply not happened.

People are still buying lots of music from retailers.
The top-selling music is still mostly mainstream filler like it has always has been.
The major record labels are still making a lot of money.
Lesser known "indie" bands are still making music and surviving.
New bands are still turning up all the time.

In other words, same old, same old.

Rob Bolton (Rob Bolton), Friday, 26 November 2004 10:59 (twenty-one years ago)

I think the arguments, on an artistic level, are that it's the type of music that is shifting these units, i.e. album sales may well be up, but it's the kind of safe, middle of the road stuff (Cullum, Mellua, Dido, Winehouse etc) that record companies are investing in - new or original music is seen as too much of a gamble in apparently uncertain times.

That's why the charts is full of this stuff - hello, Il Divo - because the "music" "business" can guarantee a return.

However, as with all things there is the much bigger and brighter picture, which is that all this is actually a fantastic thing artistically, as people will react against a growing mainstream.

People seem to forget the artistic side in this - not only did Home Taping defiantly NOT kill Music, it actually spread and widened and blossomed a stagnant mainstream. Certainly rave culture, hip-hop and thrash would have gone nowehere without home taping, and there's the oft-repeated fact that the Stone Roses debut album actually sold less that Johnny Hates Jazz's debut. Ha ha indeed, but how many of us had a scratchy old cassette of it taped off a mate who could afford to buy albums?

Fuck the business side of it - downloading / home taping / community freedom / whatever you want to call it, is always good news for expressionist artforms.

I don't see anyone moaning that much about Google Image Search...!

Huey (Huey), Friday, 26 November 2004 11:39 (twenty-one years ago)

People seem to forget the artistic side in this - not only did Home Taping defiantly NOT kill Music, it actually spread and widened and blossomed a stagnant mainstream

The record industry is run by accountants and lawyers not by people who understand (or even like) music

Why Does Herr Dadaismus Run Amok? (Dada), Friday, 26 November 2004 11:47 (twenty-one years ago)

This is sad. I was hoping file sharing would kill music.

noodle vague (noodle vague), Friday, 26 November 2004 12:12 (twenty-one years ago)

+1 for noodle

I wonder. This says *album* sales are up. What about singles?

Are people using file-sharing to get singles and putting their disposable cash into albums which are harder to assemble from the file-sharing nets?

phil jones (interstar), Friday, 26 November 2004 13:56 (twenty-one years ago)

Also I wonder if consumer spending is going up generally.

Are people just taking out more consumer debt for instant gratification, and this tide is raising all boats, even music sales?

phil jones (interstar), Friday, 26 November 2004 13:58 (twenty-one years ago)

Singles sales are down but, according to a BPI salesman, if legal downloads were included in sales figures, they'd be up too.

Why Does Herr Dadaismus Run Amok? (Dada), Friday, 26 November 2004 14:07 (twenty-one years ago)

Singles sales are kind of irrelevant, as far as revenues go, aren't they? They're pretty much a radio marketing tool these days.

Alba (Alba), Friday, 26 November 2004 14:12 (twenty-one years ago)

observation, I have no interest in the top 20 albums.

DJ Martian (djmartian), Friday, 26 November 2004 14:12 (twenty-one years ago)

fckng hell the scissor sisters are doin okay!

piscesboy, Friday, 26 November 2004 17:21 (twenty-one years ago)

From a Venom LP from '82 or so: "Home taping is killing music...So are Venom."

Myonga Von Bontee (Myonga Von Bontee), Friday, 26 November 2004 18:25 (twenty-one years ago)

i once grabbed the sillouette of an ipod with crossbones and the caption
"File Sharing Is Killing Music" and used it as wallpaper til someone here at home changed it.

i have done google image searches and found nothing. if anyone knows what i am on about and would be so kind as to post the image here i would be grateful.

...as i have stated before,i use the internet as i would a radio. if i like something i've heard/downloaded enough,i buy it.with top 40 being utter crap,this has become a very valuable tool.

william (william), Friday, 26 November 2004 19:39 (twenty-one years ago)

The main thing that is killing music is bad musicians.

JZ Adrox, Saturday, 27 November 2004 01:30 (twenty-one years ago)

Artists make more money from radio royalties than sigle sales but that's been the case for ages.

jed_ (jed), Saturday, 27 November 2004 02:44 (twenty-one years ago)

This reminds me of someone saying "Well, looks like we've just had the coolest July in the past 50 years! So much for global warming."

Sure, it's quite possible that file sharing won't drastically impact record companies (small or large). It's also quite possible that it will. You still have a vast majority of the population who didn't grow up with file sharing networks and aren't going to switch to using it as their primary means to get music. But we all know at least a handful of people who DO use it as their primary, if not only means of getting music. If enough people do that, it will hurt record companies badly.

Home taping is no analogy -- you can't have a machine tape someone's entire record library while you clean the house.

Hurting (Hurting), Saturday, 27 November 2004 02:52 (twenty-one years ago)

Let me just clarify that I mean 20 years from now, when an entire generation may be used to getting music for free, there may be a more noticable impact.

Hurting (Hurting), Saturday, 27 November 2004 02:54 (twenty-one years ago)

two years pass...
i'm into file sharing but i still buy just as much music as ever. i just listen to more. get inspired more.

i'm sure there's plenty of people out there who never ever pay for anything but they're probably just downloading Tool and NIN albums anyway.

AmyCamus, Sunday, 6 May 2007 11:14 (nineteen years ago)

On a related point, I read recently that the RIAA is considering efforts to shut down music blogs that post MP3s. That seems foolish to me. MP3 blogs only post songs for a short time and they offer to remove the link immediately if the copyright holder objects to its being posted, and MP3 blogs expose people to new music. If anything, I'd think the RIAA would try to coopt -- not eliminate -- MP3 blogs.

Daniel, Esq., Sunday, 6 May 2007 11:43 (nineteen years ago)

HI DERE 2004

Noodle Vague, Sunday, 6 May 2007 11:50 (nineteen years ago)

Did this start in 2004? This April 16, 2007 story makes it seem like a new -- or maybe revived -- campaign:

Is Music Industry Cracking Down On MP3 Blogs?

Daniel, Esq., Sunday, 6 May 2007 12:03 (nineteen years ago)

had to google "Is Music Industry Cracking Down On MP3 Blogs?" to read that story (that site wants a login/password).

the blogs described in the article sound like they suck. DUDES NEW MIA TRAX WHOOO and shit.

GOTT PUNCH II HAWKWINDZ, Sunday, 6 May 2007 13:03 (nineteen years ago)

That article reeks of "once is a fluke, twice is a coincidence, three times is a trend" thinking. Thousands and thousands of these audioblags are out there; I know as I've tried to catalog them and finally gave up. It's the food dye in the swimming pool problem.

forksclovetofu, Sunday, 6 May 2007 14:27 (nineteen years ago)

Although i will vouch heartily for the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing problem betwixt riaa and affiliates/promotion companies/bloggers. I got sent a track yesterday with exhortations to put up on site and then a follow up a few hours later begging me NOT to put it up from the same address. Somebody changed their mind. Nobody's at the wheel.

forksclovetofu, Sunday, 6 May 2007 14:28 (nineteen years ago)

Haha, that's funny. And I like the fact that you called them "audioblags". I don't know if that was intentional or not.

Bimble, Sunday, 6 May 2007 16:03 (nineteen years ago)

xkcd.com

Curt1s Stephens, Sunday, 6 May 2007 16:07 (nineteen years ago)

MP3 blogs only post songs for a short time and they offer to remove the link immediately if the copyright holder objects to its being posted

except for all the MP3 blogs that post entire albums, keep them up forever and don't really care what the copyright holder thinks.

And I'll say it again, if you really want to help promote the music, if that's really what it's about, you could post half the song, or you could post it in low quality, or you could even ask permission.

dan selzer, Sunday, 6 May 2007 16:09 (nineteen years ago)

What if I just want to make fun of Christian Halloween albums I found at the local thrift?

I eat cannibals, Sunday, 6 May 2007 16:22 (nineteen years ago)

Oh, Jesus is all for that!

Mr. Odd, Sunday, 6 May 2007 16:26 (nineteen years ago)

ysi?

That one guy that quit, Sunday, 6 May 2007 16:29 (nineteen years ago)

Somebody changed their mind. Nobody's at the wheel.

I wrote an article about one of the SXSW torrent downloads, and about 10% of the music didn't have sufficient metadata. One was a track I liked, and one of the rappers sounded like Aesop Rock. And when I contacted Def Jux for identification, they seemed pissed that the track was being given away.

bendy, Sunday, 6 May 2007 16:31 (nineteen years ago)

are the RIAA also behind this terrible idea that didn't work the last time they tried it?

GOTT PUNCH II HAWKWINDZ, Sunday, 6 May 2007 16:32 (nineteen years ago)

you could even ask permission

quite a few of them are serviced by the RIAA's biggest member labels. is that permission enough?

fact checking cuz, Sunday, 6 May 2007 16:40 (nineteen years ago)

I find it interesting to check out the number of snatches in the OiNK top 10. Last I checked, there were 22,000+ snatches of the Modest Mouse album and that is obviously just one small part of the internet where one might be able to freely download that record.

Obviously, a good number of those people are probably just downloading it for "fair use" reasons, to check out whether it is the sort of thing they might buy. Or like me, I just wanted to hear what it sounded like knowing full well I was probably going to hate it and toss it nearly immediately (except actually it's in with my soulseek shares so I take that part back).

Either way, what with the FLAC version available there too, you have to imagine lost sales through file sharing at easily one million dollars list (which computation was used because the impact of filesharing affects retailers as well).

It's also the old argument though... If those 22,000 people hadn't snatched the record and liked it, perhaps there would not be the absurd level of consensus about this record that there is and nobody would be buying it, having never heard it or heard about it. (not so much this particular record, as they have a substantial history and an existing fan base.)

A better example might be someone like Au Revoir Simone, who have built themselves up from the mp3 blogs and one self-released album to about 2200 OiNK snatches and seem to be in the process of gaining consensus status or "breaking", for whatever that's even worth.

With all of that lost revenue, I wonder how much lost revenue the bands suffer as a result, as that seems to be the main thing people care about. No one cares about the label who has made the investment in them but whether the band makes or loses money usually seems to drive this whole type of discussion. Of course they can tour and sell merch so people usually point to that as a way of saying they can "earn" (to use a Sopranos metaphor), but my feeling is that they should also be able to make money selling their records too.

I definitely think that focusing on the staggering maze of mp3 blogs and Tripwire etc is a huge waste of time, if that is what anyone is doing to combat music piracy.

I don't know if filesharing is killing music but it (coupled with "licit" digital) IS killing music retail.

Whatev. Just looking to discuss.

Saxby D. Elder, Sunday, 6 May 2007 16:44 (nineteen years ago)

(x-post to myself) not to mention the labels and artists that leak their own shit in exactly the same way as part of their "cool" "hip" "street" marketing campaigns, and then brag about it, using the exact language as the bloggers. banks don't rob themselves as part of their marketing campaigns. if you want it to be illegal, you've got to treat it like it's illegal yourself. until the record companies and managers and artists cease and desist themselves, i have a hard time recognizing the problem.

fact checking cuz, Sunday, 6 May 2007 16:46 (nineteen years ago)

I still think that disposable income being split between DVDs and Video Games has done far more to reduce music sales than downloading.

Noodle Vague, Sunday, 6 May 2007 16:50 (nineteen years ago)

if i DL something, it's mainly to see if i'll actually go out and buy it, as opposed to just listen to it once, and delete.more often than not, if i like it, i'm buying it. i'm a sucker for packaging, liner notes, etc.
now, if it's a band that i like, i'm awaiting the album, hear it, dislike it, then i'm SO glad i listened before i bought! if that's "killing music" then it's more on the artist/band's side for not putting out quality.

now, live shows, it's a whole 'nother ballgame...

i do think what's said above me is relavent, too! then, again, i'll also throw more money @ books, food, parking, public transit, beer, and door charge @ shows than @ CD's/DVD's anymore. video games don't factor into my world much, but i know plenty that it does.

edde, Sunday, 6 May 2007 16:58 (nineteen years ago)

I still think that disposable income being split between DVDs and Video Games has done far more to reduce music sales than downloading.

I certainly know people for whom that's the main object of their collecting, and they might have been music obsessives in another time. But digital music seems to have made the hardcore even more hardcore about it. The strangest thing is (as I browse iTunes shares on the campus network) that there seems to be a lot of ipods out there with 27 albums on them, mostly the same sort of 27 albums that your casual music fan has always had (a Dylan, a few Beatles and Zepplin, some Smiths and RHCP and U2, now with some Arcade Fire and Franz Ferdinand. I'm pretty sure those are paid rips or iTunes downloads. There are gigs and gigs free on a lot of iPods, I suspect.

bendy, Sunday, 6 May 2007 17:12 (nineteen years ago)

quite a few of them are serviced by the RIAA's biggest member labels. is that permission enough?

Absolutely! I service bloggers. So to speak. That doesn't excuse everyone else.

dan selzer, Sunday, 6 May 2007 18:10 (nineteen years ago)

and when it comes time for the riaa's copyright cops to start knocking on bloggers' doors, how do they tell the difference between the ones who had label service and the ones who don't? do they pass over fluxblog's house and throw the tofu hut in jail?

fact checking cuz, Sunday, 6 May 2007 19:09 (nineteen years ago)

(p.s. i have no idea if mr flux and mr tofu are or aren't getting serviced by the labels whose stuff they post. just two useful names for argument's sake.)

fact checking cuz, Sunday, 6 May 2007 19:10 (nineteen years ago)

What if I just want to make fun of Christian Halloween albums I found at the local thrift?

OMG, please...ysi...or put it on a blog, whatever. Come on. I can't stand it. Please.

Bimble, Sunday, 6 May 2007 19:20 (nineteen years ago)

Weird, cos with the exception of the Space Jam soundtrack that last month is by far the best. Oh, also with the exception of Akon. Ugh.

I know, right?, Sunday, 6 May 2007 19:32 (nineteen years ago)

you know, none of this shit is illegal really anyway. they just know no one wants to hire a lawyer to fight them on it.

I still think that disposable income being split between DVDs and Video Games has done far more to reduce music sales than downloading.

Agreed somewhat, but this might have as much to do with the availability and ease of downloading music as much as anything. Maybe if an album were 6 gigs, you wouldn't be as quick to DL it.

Saxby D. Elder, Monday, 7 May 2007 05:00 (nineteen years ago)

one month passes...

One of the projects I'm involved with is releasing its debut this week on a small but reputable indie label. Some record store dude appears to have leaked the album on his blog and now in a few days the entire album has been downloaded more than 500 times.

I'm not a copyright holder on this or anything, and at most I'll see pennies for my contribution to a few of the tracks, but this still really struck me. Of course on one hand it's amazing, as 500 people were just instantly able to find out about the band and a few of them will hopefully come out to some shows. OTOH, if even 20% of those people would otherwise have bought the album and now won't, that's a good chunk of change considering his arrangement with the label. That could have gone toward a touring vehicle, which the lead guy does not have right now and can't really afford.

I can only assume that if the album does ok this effect will multiply by many more blogs and sharing networks.

Hurting 2, Sunday, 17 June 2007 22:04 (nineteen years ago)

he should just busk for it on his website

"hey if you liked what you heard on the mp3 hows about paypaling a couple bucks so we can buy a van and come play for you live"

The Macallan 18 Year, Sunday, 17 June 2007 23:04 (nineteen years ago)

CLASSIC!

(oh, is that not what you're asking?)

Saxby D. Elder, Monday, 18 June 2007 03:57 (nineteen years ago)

that happened to our album, which is coming out in august. partially my fault, but most of the uploads I've found have been from promotional cd-rs I mailed out months ago while shopping the album. whatever, yes, it would be great if the 100 people who got it off oink actually paid for it, but I don't think they would have heard it otherwise.

akm, Monday, 18 June 2007 17:13 (nineteen years ago)

on the other hand I'm slightly chapped that the first google return for us is a megaupload link

akm, Monday, 18 June 2007 17:15 (nineteen years ago)

I was listening to some industry dude podcast interview, and the guy was talking about the "where to put the tollbooth" problem - i.e. giving away music in the beginning can be great promotion when you're not well known, but then you have to decide where you start charging and put a stop to the free, and once you've given away stuff for free that can prove difficult.

Hurting 2, Monday, 18 June 2007 17:41 (nineteen years ago)

if people don't want to pay for stuff they aren't going to, honestly.

I just wish google didn't make it so easy to find, but with google giving preference to blog links these days, you probably don't even need to be a using a file-sharing network to get most albums for free now.

akm, Monday, 18 June 2007 17:44 (nineteen years ago)

megaupload feels especially dirty

Catsupppppppppppppp dude 茄蕃, Monday, 18 June 2007 17:51 (nineteen years ago)

Yeah, the fact that the tech is still improving too - I mean it wasn't long ago that you'd still mostly find separate tracks on blogs, but now you get whole albums very easily.

Hurting 2, Monday, 18 June 2007 17:54 (nineteen years ago)

Artists and labels are being very lazy. Many blogs will take down stuff posted when asked nicely. It's a shame that you have to ask, but they do it. Beyond that, they can contact megaupload/rapidshare/sendspace/etc with an email to have posted material removed.

It seems to me not many people are doing this. I'm not saying the onus should be on them, but it doesn't hurt.

dan selzer, Monday, 18 June 2007 19:15 (nineteen years ago)

I just wish google didn't make it so easy to find, but with google giving preference to blog links these days, you probably don't even need to be a using a file-sharing network to get most albums for free now.

-

this is very true. i hardly use s1sk at all anymore. i use google.

andi, Monday, 18 June 2007 19:41 (nineteen years ago)

Actually, the label supposedly did ask the blog to take it down (according to bandleader). As of my last check it was still up.

Hurting 2, Monday, 18 June 2007 21:16 (nineteen years ago)

that's lame. I'd send an email to their service provider, or to rapidshare or whatever. I've never had to do that but It could be effective. I've had to contact people about a half dozen times and they've always been considerate to take it down. In some cases it involved the posting of things that we had licensed but hadn't even released yet, so the blogger thought they were posting out-of-print music, which makes it slighly better.

dan selzer, Monday, 18 June 2007 22:23 (nineteen years ago)

what about oink? as a point of extreme and absolute hypocrisy of course I have an oink account but I still want my own album off there, at least until the thing has been officially released. I am fairly certain they'll probably just cancel my account, ban me for life, and leave it up there if I complain, however.

akm, Monday, 18 June 2007 23:19 (nineteen years ago)

six years pass...

http://pingtune.com/

?

TracerHandVEVO (Tracer Hand), Tuesday, 25 February 2014 17:20 (twelve years ago)


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