Led Zeppelin: Classic Or Dud?

With Zeppelin, the sound is the thing. Tom, you should approach Zep's body of work the way you would Dr. Dre's 2001. Sure, Dre is not the greatest rapper, but he knows how to lay down rhymes that compliment his brilliant productions. I would argue that the same holds true for Page & Plant. The massive, bottom-heavy sound that Page captured with his studio work reaches perfection only with Plant's voice floating on top.

All the while feeling vaguely smug and intellectual because of the Crowley and Tolkien references. Bleargh.

Fred's not totally wrong though -- the Zep had their occaisional moment, but they're still overrated beyond belief. Early Black Sabbath could have them for breakfast!

But the best reason to hate Zeppelin, as Nicole pointed out, is that they were a band who sung about J.R.R. Tolkien. I fucking hate Tolkien. J.R.R. fucking Tolkien is not rock 'n roll.

I loathe 'ver Zep', their sweatiness, their ponderousness (is that a word?) and their pretension. I'm very used to listening to music for the noise. Led Zeppelin make a nasty noise.

I don't think I've ever heard a band rock harder than the Roots Radics circa '81, and they sounded *beautiful*.

Tim

With regards to the man's general worth, though, we must differ. ;-)

1) There is nothing even remotely intellectual about Zep or their fans; their music is populism at its finest.

2) Hard to imagine what could be more smug than picking on teenage kids in middle America.

3) Why listen to Zep when you can listen to Sabbath? JOHN BONHAM. Black Sabbath, while masters of the riff (and Reality), had an anemic rhythm section. How many hip-hop groups have sampled Bill Ward's drum parts?

Zep ARE pretty sweaty, though.

Fred's right when he says Robert Plant's voice sounds like an escape (specifically, from the stuffiness and politeness of Britain when Plant was growing up) but, you know, you could say the same thing about fucking Merseybeat, for fuck's sake. While at the time they were hailed as an astonishing sonic progression from *that* lot over six years, Zep remind me of what Tom and I once said about the Beatles' hangers-on; you can't deny that they sounded like an escape and a new dawn for certain people listening to them, but that doesn't alter the fact that the music is terrible.

Yeah, Tom's nailed them good and proper.

Why listen to Led Zep when you have Black Sabbath? Because only listening to one band is boring unless it's The Cure or Prince.

but seriously (ha ha ha)! tom is oblivious to many of the things that make zep great, unless he's fooled me all of this time and is really into virtuosity and locking rhythm sections. ;) mark, as you say the music isn't really made for or by intellectuals. the concept of "suspension of disbelief" comes to mind, checking your brain at the door, etc., and if you're not up for that then, let me say it again, maybe zep isn't the band for you.

and what's all this talk of sabbath? are the same people who are criticizing robert plant's voice listening to a band fronted by ozzy? certainly, sabbath has created some incredibly sludgy and heavy riffs (and are probably currently a bigger influence than zep) but, as mark says, the rhythm section is weak and, God, i just can't *stand* ozzy. more power to you if you can!

And Pitchfork can kiss my arse ;).

i write paragraphs about them because i force myself to think about them: normally, zep isn't one of those bands one rattles on about. if i were listening to the music and *thinking* it'd be a conscious effort.

and pitchfork is *still* the internet king of music reviews, if you ask me. maybe -- and this is only a *maybe* -- you'd be in their league if you wrote a review, oh, more than once a month (or when the latest merritt album comes out).

The ironic thing, I've just realised, is that my reaction to Led Zep *is* pretty much 'instinctual' - as I said to Fred in chat a few days ago, the difference is that I'm basically more of a punk than him. So I like Motorhead, he likes Zep, and both of us look around for rationalisations as to why the other one is less rockin'. Having grown up on the British music press and their horror of anything approaching prog or dinosaur rock, my gut instinct is to mistrust the virtuosity and bombast of the Zep: so my negative judgement is based on that 'unthinking' reaction.

Of course, I *could* think myself into liking some of their stuff, but as Fred says, that's hardly the point...

Busta Rhymes - 'This Means War' samples 'Iron Man'

Cypress Hill - 'I Ain't Goin' Out Like That' samples 'The Wizard'

And I'm sure that 'Behind the Wall of Sleep' has been used on a record too, Okay it's not quite 'When the Levee Breaks' but it's still got a fucking good, if loose, groove

Who has more original, harder, stranger, colder, more bombastic riffs than Zep?

That said: Stairway to Heaven may be Zep's pop masterpiece, but pop isn't what I want out of a hard band. I've seen them twice but after the first album, they could only play arrangements of their multitracked recordings. If Zeps extraordinary arrangements bear any responsibility for the over-produced so-called power ballads that came after, I curse them. Finally, Jimmy played the coldest blues based solos ever - his solos bother me every time I hear them but, maybe that's a good thing.

as for zeppelin, to paraphrase cole gagne on branca, it does not matter what anyone thinks about them any more than it matters what anyone thinks of the sun. they were my ecstasy and education from ages 10-14 or so. i can't stand them most of the time now, after punk happened long ago for me but there are always precious moments when i can listen and get into it again. the reasons for loving them and hating them are both equally obvious and *don't matter*. zeppelin simply are.

curiously neglected so far:

i) the obvious vulnerable and androgynous qualities of robert plant's voice and persona. *this* is one item that separates them from standard macho beer-drinking rock and makes them valuable to misfit teen boys (god knows none of the *jocks* were listening to them in my gr 8 class).

ii) the tolkien's not there to make the fans feel smug and intellectual. fuck, when do most people read tolkien? gr 6? gr 7? it's there because, along with the music, zeppelin really aimed to create a fantasy-world and to achieve an otherworldly experience. item number two.

listening to just the cure all the time though. gah.

The best Zep, though, were "Physical Graffiti" and "Presence." The first LP of the former is the best funk record ever recorded (better even that Parliament/Funkadelic). The second is just great.

Kris.

Fuck you all

Later bands would imitate the screamin and screaching guitars; however, the rythm sectio could not be duplicated. Furthermore, the sound of led zeppelin was a result of a combination of many influencs,including indian classical and celtic. Later bands' sound was a result of musical interests within the band that were limited in genre.

All of the musicians in the band are of the highest quality. JImmy Page ranks as one of the best guitarists ever, and the rythm section of John Paul Jones an John Bonham is unrivaled. The songwritig duo of Page and Plant was also one of the best ever.

Contrary to the beliefs of some people who have posted, Led zeppelin set records for sales of tickets and albums. Their live performances shattered tickt sales records, due to elongated versions of songs such as moby dick, which is also an example of Bonham's amazing talent. They are also right behind the beatles in total record sales. HOwever, the beatles had 21 albums, where zep only had 10.

Now could somebody clarify how zeppelin isn't good, because i just don't see it.

I like Plant's voice.

But the stuff I think I most enjoy from them are when they were just plain goofy and/or eccentric. I'm thinking "Boogie with Stu", "Hats Off (to Roy Harper)", "The Crunge", "Hot Dog", etc

Can't think of too many weak moments from Zep, actually...

I can understand those who don't like them becasue of the Prog/Dinosaur overtones, but simply noting that they were in that field would negate the accusations of them bieng anti-intellectual and lacking skill.

Sure, some of their songs are *fairly* simple, but on the whole, they almost always managed to do something unexpected or quirky within the context of Loud Blues.

They're one of the few Rawk bands I can stand, because there's always something ungraspable about how they came to what they ended up doing. To me, if you can figure out how a band got to their end product (and could replicate it yourself), why bother listening to it?

Zeppelin's music, if you listen to it, was exstremly inventive and layered. Led Zeppelins actually musical influence can actually be felt most from everyone from Prince to REM to Jane's Addiction to Smashing Pumpkins. Not lame hair metal, lol. On the other hand all Black Sabbath ever influenced was moronic crap like death metal, or black metal and a bunch of low IQed, beer swilling "metal heads" with a mentality to "break stuff" and worship the devil. Please.

Also the comments about Led Zeppelin not being intellectual are ignorant in my opinion. Is Mozart not intellectual? He certainly did not have many lyrics about war or polotics did he? What was intellectual about Zeppelin was there musical ability. The world was filled with tons of good and lame bands that where "politcally consious", i think they where and still are a breath of fresh air. I like some Punk rock, but if you are that non-ecclectic as to be turned off to great musicans because of some silly ideal or scene (like punk) then your a idiot.

So, did Sabbath influence Iron Maiden or Judas Priest? Probably, but not in the way they might have liked. There may be a reason Maiden - a band that does few covers - did one of Whole Lotta Love, but never a single Sabbath tune.

So, did Sabbath influence Iron Maiden or Judas Priest? Probably, but not in the way they might have liked. There may be a reason Maiden - a band that does few covers - did one of Whole Lotta Love, but never a single Sabbath tune.

Ron

So they influenced R. Kelly, too!

Anyband with Bonham at the back was on to a winner (unless it was Bonham's own band) and Page and Plant ain't so bad either. Actually, I recall Ian Anderson of Jethro Tull fame telling Melody Maker back in the day that with his lyrics and Zep's music they "could have made quite a good little rock and roll band." Ha ha ha ha ha.. sorry, I laugh my ass off everytime I hear that.

Gimme Physical Graffiti everytime. I think it's actually too good, if that's possible, which it isn't, but it feels like it is when I listen to that album. Does anyone else know what I (don't) mean?

i went to tokyo and saw a little old japanese man buying led zeppelin bootlegs. only later did i learn

the sequined dragon bell bottoms should've tipped you off

holy shit jimmy page is japanese?

i mean hory shit

That is some hoary shit

The "Jimmy Page" guy in Jason Bonham's Led Zeppelin Experience is Japanese.

Glad you all dug that clip. I, too, was totally blown away.

What’s funny is, I’d come across it after I heard a version from Celebration Day or Ahmet Ertegun or Atlantic 40th with Jason Bonham on drums and was like, “This is … okay but something seems to be missing.” Then I came across the Knebworth version with the severely phased cymbal crash right out of the gate and it reminded me: “Oh, right. Bonham. Holy fucking shit.”

Last time they ever played in the UK BTW.

Jimmy could pass as half Asian fwiw

really map? that's a shitty joke and an even shittier post.

ok

maybe i'm shitty dude. did that ever cross your mind? could very well be. looking forward to hearing about your verdict when you reach it :)

i mean, just casually dropping racist posts like that might be a good leading indicator, but i try not to judge everyone solely by their basest instincts so

map, not cool at all. Doubling down is even worse.

so saying 'hory shit' as a joke is racist

dude....

making fun of the l-r thing. yall tell me, i won't do it anymore.

if it is i get it. i'm not an expert on the japanese-american experience. i thought it was a light thing. but if it's hurtful i don't want to do that, i'm sorry and i'll stop.

damn. crickets. ok.

look, i can see how "making a joke about how someone speaks that is related to their nationality" is in poor taste. sometimes i say things or make jokes that are in poor taste! i don't always have great taste. a sin on this message board i know. i do an exaggerated italian accent irl for dumb laffs all the time. cue what's-his-face on the sopranos saying "that's offensive." cue someone else saying that's different. ok, i'm really not interested in arguing, i'm way more interested in not hurting people's feelings. i'm also not interested in continuing to do something if the people i'm around find it in poor taste. that is a totally fair thing to say, by the way. "hey, i thought that joke was in poor taste and i don't like it when people make fun of others based on how they speak." extremely fair. i will apologize and stop.

all of that being said, i'm going to say another few things and try to be really clear about it.

really map? that's a shitty joke and an even shittier post.

― better than ezra collective soul asylum (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Wednesday, August 6, 2025 8:32 PM (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink

i mean, just casually dropping racist posts like that might be a good leading indicator, but i try not to judge everyone solely by their basest instincts so

― better than ezra collective soul asylum (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Wednesday, August 6, 2025 8:48 PM (fifty-three minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

i've posted here for a long, long time. you'd think i would have earned some trust and some benefit of the doubt by now. but there really are people who are just waiting for you to say something that they get to call you "shitty" about. because it's pretty obvious that's how they feel about themselves. their lack of trust is reciprocated by me. and i'll do my best to ignore them.

i do a lot of good posting here. i really enjoy the outlet. i'm not exactly well-liked because i also have a history of not liking myself and therefore going after others. sometimes i get a little out there. i don't have any cred to speak of. i'm a lonely gay music freak. i've tried my best to be kind and open-hearted lately. i've put myself out there, made myself vulnerable. it hurts to be called shitty at the drop of a hat. if i were a person who wasn't so interested in not hurting others, i could see how that would make that person think things like "fuckin cancel culture". so here's an idea: if you find something in poor taste and don't want to read it again, say so. the people worth their salt will respond positively. try to avoid calling people shitty and i'd say probably avoid telling someone what they said is racist unless it clearly is. there is obvious racist malicious shit out there. thankfully none of it exists here. sometimes people will dip into stuff with poor taste. i'm thinking of "horrry shit ... piissss" from years ago. ade. that guy was obviously not racist but was kind of an edgelord. i don't want to be an edgelord either. ok so much for this being clear. i think i said all i really needed to. anyway back to the greatest band ever, led zeppelin.

nobody said you were a shitty person, just that it was a shitty joke. i can understand that it might not *feel* like there's a difference at this moment, but there is.

Right, I don't think you are a shitty person, but it is a joke that comes across as racist. Maybe there's a better way to respond, maybe not. I think it is ok for people to say that it makes them upset.

xp right, i get that. they were calling what i wrote "shitty". slight difference. a much bigger difference, though, to say, "dude i don't like that joke. i think making fun of how other nationalities speak is crude and doesn't belong here." but instead of blanket-judging-as-objective-fact with over-the-top name-calling language, that would mean expressing your feelings as something local to yourself, which would mean opening yourself up to some vulnerability. not a thing people tend to do here, or anywhere afaict.

map, the proper response to all of this would be to say, "you're right, I see how that was a racist joke that is offensive" and

You've now typed out the same "joke" for a third time for some reason and seem like you are getting defensive. Maybe you are having a bad day, but this whole thing is just more of the stuff we get in the real world and no one needs it.

honestly map, part of it was shock on my part that in 2025 someone would need that explained to them that it's a racist thing to post. and I most definitely did not call you a shitty person, nor did I call you any names at all. in fact I went so far as to say I try not to judge a person on just one thing they do. yours was a shitty post and a shitty joke, I stand by that. maybe I could have worded it in a way that made it easier to digest, but genuinely I was just surprised to see that posted so casually.

not responding any more to this and i stand by what i said. i did my best.

weirdly linked, but it works.

Whole Lotta URL

clicked it and now I seem to be on the blockchain. help.

yeah i clicked it and it added a bookmark to this thread - weird.

guys after taking a moment, i need to say: that post was shitty and racist, you're right, and i'm sorry.

reactions totally understandable. and jon, i owe you an apology too.

clicked it and now I seem to be on the blockchain. help.

NFT Though The Out Door

Over the Hills and 56k

Sorry! That youtube post was credited to Rock n Roll Hall of Fame, so thought it would be okay, but Google AI and Firefox complicated it---this seems clean, just tested it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xyS_qgA-1Mg

Lol, that is highly entertaining. I've never seen Plant play guitar! Did Neil not have the heart to tell them he didn't write For What It's Worth?

"Damn son! Where'd ya find this?!"

...is hilarious meta marketing for Rock jams. I would've rather heard Neil sing than Robert play tho

Speaking of Knebworth, they also tore up “Achilles Last Stand” while Jimmy lost his body weight in sweat. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXScsqcdMOA

Some good guitar face at about 4:30 there.

lmao that Levee Breaks sounds like a parody shreds video

Speaking of Knebworth, they also tore up “Achilles Last Stand” while Jimmy lost his body weight in sweat. 📹

xpost Oh I dig what Young, Page, Jones, and Bonham are doing---also Plant's goofiness---and even if the whole thing seems like parody, it's still entertaining, maybe more entertaining (accidental comedy can seem like the best kind).

So cringe

Their performance of "Sick Again" from that night is p good:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y711e3dFnb8

Why is page drenched with sweat? Nobody else is sweatin', and I see steam coming out of Plant's mouth at points, indicating the air was cold.

because satan

Because

@ruggie.74
1 month ago
"Jimmy, how are you going to play a recording that has 10+ guitar tracks live?"
"Yes."

like i said

Actually it kinda looks more like he's poured water over himself rather than sweat.

Because sick again

Heroin.