Might music fans like music more than musicians do?

"And couldn't one just as easily say that being a rock critic ruins one's enjoyment of music because a critic devotes so much time to listening to and writing about music that it becomes an intellectual exercise devoid of the context and meaning music has for most people?"

Of course. What I'm wondering here though is a sort of meek will inherit the earth kind of deal. Maybe the people who seem most daunted by music--those who impulsively consume it without giving themselves credit for being able to produce (or write about it professionally)--are the ones who by dint of their reverence most love it, as opposed to those we commonly assume do, musicians (and critics).

I mean I know it's sort of a stupid idea but I'm just wondering here.

This is the musical equivalent of saying someone is butt-ugly but has a nice personality.

(For the record, I've played in bands and write about music for magazines, yet I cannot isolate the artist from the song - if the tune stinks, very seldom will I praise the bass player for getting the right tone on his axe or something. Yet, if it's up my alley I'll be noticing all sorts of good shit about it...)

I've always had disdain for the musician that listens for technical complexity and facility, but I do tend to listen in an analytic way that some people might find silly - "This groove makes me want to dance, but why?"

That seems rather strawman-ish to me.

Most musicians would have the enormous record collections of rock critics if they didn't a) Devote all that obsessive energy to learning riffs instead of learning history, b) Devote all that money to expensive gear instead of to records.

for many rock critics it's a point of honor NOT TO pay for records

-- ramon fernandez (ideaoforderatkeywes...), January 21st, 2007. (ramon fernandez)

http://www.markusaebi.ch/animalboys/images/ramones.jpg

"Hey Jonny, downcha tink dat Chick Corrrreah shoulda usedda diminished E-minah thoiteen cawd ta solo ovah on dat fust song on da new Return to Forevah reccud? He cudda vamped ovah dat with like Phygian mode owa sumpin."

"Yeah Dee Dee, dat wudda been alawt bettah"

even so, i cant tell you HOW many times ive read interviews w/musicians who stated that they were so damn creative that they didnt listen to anybody else's stuff. ian anderson from jethro tull comes to mind, but then ive seen similar statements come from older, jaded blues guys.

Ugh, I've heard that from people face to face as well, and it always pisses me off. A lot of them were crap, too.

Sometimes I think this is why I feel outclassed on most ILM discussions.

That seems rather strawman-ish to me.

-- Steve Go1dberg (steve.schne...), January 21st, 2007.

Then you haven't spent much time on Hip Hop message boards.

-- M@tt He1g3s0n: oh u mad cuz im stylin on u (matt@game[remove]informer.com), January 22nd, 2007.

I didn't notice that when Steve quoted me he chopped off the last part of my sentence. You know, the part about hip hop.

You mentioned chord progressions and samples; I took those as being independent. You didn't say anything about hip-hop specifically. Anyway, your comment is still off base. "Musicians" don't tear apart good songs for not having complex chord progressions - stupid people do.

hehe, in my experience, people with obsessions/insecurities about their theory do this. i remember one conversation where i said things to the effect of "yes, but how does it make you feel?" for a long long time.

i think how much a musician 'enjoys' music depends very much on what type of musician they are. compare john zorn and john cage for example. its very fitting to the type of music they make that zorn has this ridiculous record collection while i get the impression cage didn't really have much time for digging the crates.

Yes, they are, and I didn't imply otherwise. The point was, tearing apart a good song on the basis of not having a complex enough chord progression isn't a logical consequence of being a musician. People who do that sort of thing are just looking for some shallow reason to justify their dislike/derision/condescension, and would find another one if they weren't hip to the music theory lexicon.

Shallow it may be, but don't doubt that there can be sincerity there too. I don't much care for London Calling largely because of the chorus pedal Mick Jones uses on practically every track. It really does irritate me after awhile.

When Brett Milano came out with that VINYL book, profiling record collectors, seems like a good portion of the crate-diggers profiled all played in bands (Peter Buck from R.E.M. comes to mind).

Ok, I think it's safe to say that EVERYONE enjoys music more than "blues guitar fanatics"

Still? Now that anyone can get access to a HUGE amount of MUSIC for free? ESPECIALLY if you're a music geek and care to find the best places to download? I personally want for little, pay for little, and review nothing. Except through recommendations.

I have a feeling that most indie-rock musicians have more wide-ranging tastes than most indie-rock fans.

Almost certainly.

the squintier the face, the hotter the solo

This is an interesting idea.

is it?

nah, not really

The first part of Bangs' quote makes sense, but the second does not.

People realize that listening to recordings is not the only way to enjoy music, right?

otm