'defending rhyming from any and all attempts to democratize it'

nitsuh says to democratize while ethan wants to rationalize/while i tattoo Frogger on yo grandma's thighs/instability, insincerity to all you writers biting me/i saw Teri Garr last night on the TV screen/dont trust the opinions of the academics/elitist concepts/never endemic/my view is scenic while your scene is polemic/college frats eating rats on welcome mats/how do you feel when your girl likes Bratmobile?/alone with headphones, you blasting "Caress of Steel"/Rush fans deny it, snobs re-buy it/Neil Peart solos pit-pat while I defecate on his hi-hat/oops...ha!

see, we democratize rhyming and everyone just bites paul barman. paul barman!

good call...you got the obvious tribute!

We need to SUCK before we can get better, you know.

Keep your immediate family out of this.

paul barman!

My sister likes him. I'm not too sure what to think. But my sister likes Grand Buffet, a different story entirely.

URGENT AND KEY message to Ethan: I WAS KIDDING.

Well, basically I was kidding. The "democratizing" thing was just a meta-joke in my own head: I was thinking about how MCing has always presented itself as a way for "real" individuals to speak up about what's "really" going on with them, and how it would function if we extended that analysis to, say, wealthy New Englanders rapping about debutante balls. No matter how seriously such a thing was put forward, we'd find it funny and consider it ironic -- because there really is humor, intentional or not, in juxtaposing the typical subject matter of hip-hop with elements of wildly different cultures. The joke element of what I said was in part an honest question -- a joke about those wealthy New England youth angrily demanding respect within the discourse of hip-hop.

But what I did mean, more seriously, was more that when jokingly half-assed rhyming is going on, you tend to be the first one to call others on its lack of quality -- which strikes me as your way of saying "I Take Rhyming Seriously And Am Not At All Amused." And I completely see where you're coming from with this, because there is and has always been a tendency for precisely those folks who don't take it seriously to be the ones who do it, for laughs, in a spirit of mockery, and it's perfectly legitimate for that to set off "That's Not Funny" alarms.

Thing is: it's difficult to tell, in this context-free environment, who's doing that and who's just being goofy in an agenda-less manner. There's an odd sensitivity that comes, I think, specifically from the fact that hip-hop has had to struggle for a sense of "artistic legitimacy." But imagine someone picking up an acoustic guitar and playing a half-assed jokey folk song: you wouldn't go out of your way to suspect derision toward the folk genre itself, right? Or how about someone cracking up over playing faux metal riffs on an electric guitar? In all cases, the musical results of this sort of thing are just as bad as the half-assed joke-type rhyming.

My comment on the other thread was just an offhand thought, though, not some sort of big statement. I just think ... well, you know that "make up your death metal name" thread that wound its way through here a while ago? Imagine a metalhead dropping in and saying "dude, those names are all horrifyingly bad." Music fans play genre dress-up for laughs, and whoever is most serious about the genre in question is the least amused.

Actually, I'm not sure how much of that I mean. I basically just hope it was clear that with something like my listening chamber track, the entertainment value wasn't meant to be a "look, I'm rhyming" thing, but a "weird half-assed rhyming unexpectedly turns out to be about IL*" thing.

I can't believe you didn't like my rhyming Ethan. Can't Believe< /i>.

― Tim, Friday, 28 December 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

bloody hell.

I think rhymes usually come across pretty badly in print. That may partially explain conservative censor-mongers getting so riled up over "offensive" lyrics. And do you seriously think kazper's rhymes were better than mine? You're fucking dumb then.

And for the record, I was definitely not trying to mock hiphop in the other thread--if anything, I was just having a laugh... not that I didn't try a little on the rhymes, but I, you know, tried to make them sound like super-formulaic '93-era Oakland battle rhymes, and not Really Good HipHop that a super-serious call-outer like Ethan would jizz his jammies over.

I avoid this question entirely by never attempting to rhyme. It's like my attempt to make lyrics -- poor.

wealthy New Englanders rapping about debutante balls. That Coup song is funny as hell.

>>> the pinefox crew = ???

.................

Nigga please. Get over him/yourself.

FYI - Tracer Hand looks like Paul Barman. It is the single thing that Momus and I truly agree on.

how can someone join da pinefox cru?

We need to SUCK before we can get better, you know.
And if we suck really good, hey...thats an extra income stream for those of us with a strong stomach and no scruples.

see, we democratize rhyming and everyone just bites paul barman. paul barman!
Welll, ethan...it was either him or Roots Manuva. And *nobody* wants that.

what?