Search and Destroy: Rock Guitar Shredders

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I think the problem with most metal is not that it's too technical and virtuosic but that it's not technical and virtuosic enough (at least the stuff that wants to be isn't). Lightning poodle solos are so tiresome because they're so simplistic and obvious. Arpeggios in even 64th-notes in standard major and minor progressions get you no points whatsoever. Name me twiddlers worthy of the name, who actually demonstrate mastery of the instrument and push it further - harmonically, rhythmically (in terms of time signatures, tempo, note subdivisions), contrapuntally, with dynamics and timbre. That guy who died recently from, uh, Death, seems like he might be promising from the descriptions.

― sundar subramanian, Friday, 28 December 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Chuck SchoolDinner. God how I loved that man. I thought he had started recovering. http://209.15.55.238/ubb/frown.gif

― Kodanshi, Friday, 28 December 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I suggest DON CABALLERO 2 be played during reading this thread. or REIGN IN BLOOD. danke.

― Gage-o, Friday, 28 December 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

There's a guy named Shawn Lane who plays with Jonas Hellborg and others who is probably the fastest guitarist I've ever heard--faster than Buckethead, but he's also got the most amazing taste and sophistication. Apparently he's a freak of nature with an overactive nervous system. It's not heavy-metal, but it's still pretty darn heavy. If you want metalgreats, Trey Azagoth from Morbid Angel is pretty amazing. Richie Kotzen as a youth was also a jaw-dropping kid from the MetalBlade/Shrapnel school of thought.

― Mickey Black Eyes, Friday, 28 December 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

If you want a laugh, Guy Mann-Dude is the person to turn to.

― Ned Raggett, Friday, 28 December 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Trey Azagthoth from Morbid Angel is the standard-bearer here, I think, though I suppose one could expect as many different answers as there are metal aficionados. For me the question is: "Who plays solos that sound like the firmament splitting open?" Azagthoth is the answer; this may have something to do with the rather unorthodox way Morbid Angel records (the band does their bits in a studio; then Azagthoth, the founding member, takes the tapes to his house, where he's got an in-home studio, and works on the solos until he's satisfied). But this bit: "Name me twiddlers worthy of the name, who actually demonstrate mastery of the instrument and push it further - harmonically, rhythmically (in terms of time signatures, tempo, note subdivisions), contrapuntally, with dynamics and timbre" --well, I mean, Yngwie's your man then, but he's just horrifically boring. The guy from Necrophagist is Azagthoth's main rival; his album is notoriously hard to find, but it's called "Onset Of Putrefaction" and the solos are numbingly intense. Chuck Schuldiner, too, of course, poor fellow. Pontine glioma in your early thirties. Jesus.

― John Darnielle, Friday, 28 December 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Didn't we have this discussion recently? Yngwie, man, all the way...

― Andy, Friday, 28 December 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Andy - have you heard the Necrophagist CD? 'Cause, seriously: you gotta. From space. For real.

― John Darnielle, Friday, 28 December 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I haven't knowingly heard Yngwie Malmsteem. The impression I get, however, is that he doesn't do all that but that he plays pretty conventional 'classically influenced' figures really fast, in pretty standard rhythms and harmonies. (If he does push things that much, what is it about him you find boring?) I really disliked Don Caballero 2. I don't know why.

― sundar subramanian, Friday, 28 December 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Are there any specific Death or Morbid Angel albums one should look up? Someone taped me a Morbid Angel album years ago that I didn't really get into at the time. (Obliveon's Nemesis, which was on the other side, did more for me then.)

― sundar subramanian, Saturday, 29 December 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

the best example i can think of from the sort of death/thrash genres would be alex skolnik (?) the guy from testament who played in about a zillion other bands. id also include kerry king and jeff hanneman over, say, marty freidman and dave mustaine, because they wanted to play like judas priest without learning any scales or chords. the result was a horrible bloody mess that sounds like it involves razor blades and broken glass more than it would instruments.

― david, Saturday, 29 December 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

The problem with Kerry King is that he seems unable to stay in key during many of his solos. Alex Skolnick is definitely superior, but I would also recommend checking out some of King Diamond's albums, his guitarists Andy LaRoque and Pete Blakk are both pretty shredding and more inventive than your typical death-metal axe grinder.

― Ian M, Saturday, 29 December 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Sundar - I think most purists, of whom there are plenty in the Metal Boosters' Association, would direct you to Morbid Angel's "Covenant." I personally am pretty fond of the newest, "Gateways to Annihilation." The former's much more raw and heavy-low-end, the latter more interesting in a "melodic" sense (all terms being relative: there is no real melody in the sort of death metal MA plays, just weird relationships between chords). Vocalist David Vincent is on "Covenant" but not "Gateways": a lot of metalheads think he was just wonderful, though I personally can't see why. You can always tell where in Morbid Angel's career you are by the first letter of the album's name, anyhow: their first album was "Altars of Madness," the second was "Blessed Are the Sick," third one's "Covenant," et cetera.

― John Darnielle, Saturday, 29 December 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

i think 'playing in key' is very overrated anyway. chuck schuldiner himself only had a very limited knowledge of theory and the appeal of the slayer guitarists is that their solos werent the usual poodle metal bollocks that a lot of thrash guitarists spent their brief careers trying desperately to imitate and failing horribly.

― david, Saturday, 29 December 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I believe Altars of Madness was the album I heard. Honestly, I can't even remember very well what it sounded like.

Playing in key blows, I agree.

― sundar subramanian, Saturday, 29 December 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I can't comment much on Buckethead's technical skill, except that I've enjoyed both his solo drum-n-bass-oriented weirdness and his work with Praxis, but he has an album "Colma" that not enough people have heard. Notable because one of the virtuosic wankers actually decided to forego theatrics and record a very calm, soothing album full of mellow instrumentals. It's so nice, all introspective circular riffs and picking, and this slow drum machine pattern in the background, very slightly trip-hop ... maybe a little 'muzak,' but much less so than, say, Steve Vai's new agey chillout crap

― Dare, Sunday, 30 December 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

one month passes...

try the guys from the Aphelion, i think their website is http://theaphelion.gq.nu it is some intense stuff... contrapuntal madness, time manipulation, modulation, speed, arpeggios, everything you guys mention... none of that malmsteen crap! haha

― Just Lily, Thursday, 31 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

From a crowd POV I think most of these guys would be blown out of the water if they had to stand on stage for some kind of awesome "shredding contest" with Robert Quine. Or maybe not. But they would definitely seem sillier.

― Tracer Hand, Thursday, 31 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Lots of the death metal guitarists who've been mentioned pretty much play like Bob Quine at warp speed. Only those with slow brains would be more impressed by Bob Quine. I like the duo from Exodus myself, as sort of a compromise between the wild dissonance of Slayer and the fussy, retrograde precision of the neo-classicists. I really wish there were more death metal guitarists that played like Greg Ginn, though.

― Kris, Thursday, 31 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

MY REVIEW OF METAL SHREDDER V. BOB QUINE SHRED-OFF (aka "you'll pay for what you said, kris")

Metal shredder does "Eruption 2002" in screaming blitz of hammer-ons. Crowd = stunned. He finishes with a sweaty flourish and whips hair back out of his face. Crowd comes to its senses, slowly begins clapping. Clapping becomes a roar. Shredder lumbers, circling like an unsettled puma on the stage, a steely glint in his eye aimed right at Bob Quine, tho he can't tell if BQ is looking at him or not due to BQ's excessively dark eyewear. The clapping subsides. BQ steps up. What he plays is so fast, yet so strange in its sudden shifts in tempo and dynamics that some in the crowd can't help but giggle. Maybe they recognize an awkwardness in his virtuousity. Maybe they just think he dresses funny. After this probing question mark of an intro BQ finally achieves some sort of rhythm, and he is jamming, all by himself, like a one-man band. At one moment he spikes into his improvised melody with jokes; at another he snipes at his own playing with short phrases of resentment. The giggles have subsided. BQ's willingness to be vulnerable on his instrument transforms his blistering runs into narratives encompassing swagger, loss, and much in between, often many of these things in the same bar. This is a game that metal shredder can't play. His fingers are fast, but his brain can't keep up! BQ ends with a kind of breakdown trainwreck of notes that miraculously resolves into a meditative sustain that's drowned in heartfelt approbation well before it fades. BQ nods and shuffles and flashes a brief, uncomfortable smile as the judges tally their scores. Oh did I mention that i HEART BOB QUINE??

― Tracer Hand, Thursday, 31 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

How to pronounce 'Quine'?

― dave q, Friday, 1 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

i always liked henry kaiser wonky assed blues tapping shred style tis best when heard solo as opposed to on top of shit covers of grateful dead tunes or old beards being folky faux beefhearts.

― bob snoom, Saturday, 2 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

five months pass...

Hi guys, I stumbled upon this old thread by mistake, but I believe it's interesting enough to bring it back to life. To answer your "question", you should look for the classic technical metal bands: Cynic, Atheist, Coroner etc. There are the bands that accomplished the things you mentioned. Today, the flame of technical metal is kept alive by some fantastic bands like: Spiral Architect (they nothing to do with death metal, though), Sceptic, the after mentioned Necrophagist, Theory in Practice and other mighty, progressive bands that, if given the time, will blow you away.

Maiten

― Maiten, Friday, 12 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Suggested: the Fucking Champs. Voivod. Raw Power (the band). Exodus (I think I read that elsewhere in this thread. Rocky from Suicidal Tendencies, maybe.

The reason Kerry King and Jeff Hanneman (did I spell that right?) were pushing the envelope while soloing is that it often sounds like they weren't even listening to the music the were supposed to be playing along with in the studio. The REAL height of their genius, therefore, is when it sounds like they're not playing with the band EVEN WHILE PLAYING LIVE! You can tell it's on purpose, too, when they lurch back into ensemble playing seamlessly, on tempo and key, after the solos. Seen 'em do it every time, the effect is quite jarring and galvanizing. Makes me want to fuck shit up.

― Matt Riedl (veal), Thursday, 18 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

kwine

― Tracer Hand, Thursday, 18 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

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