Pitchfork Top 50 Singles of 2004

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http://www.pitchforkmedia.com/top/2004/singles/index.shtml

When I saw "Chewing Gum" at #11, I wondered why that track gets so much attention when "Heartbeat" (is it "My Heartbeat" or just "Heartbeat"? does anyone know? I see 'em both all the time) is the better tune? Then I saw #1.

I'm happy to see appearances by the Von Bondies, Phoenix, and Christina Milian -- but there's lots of stuff I'd like to download, too -- plus insightful commentary from ILXors like Mark P., David R., Dominique L., Mark R., and Scott P.

― jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 21 December 2004 16:24 (twenty-one years ago)

J-KWON

― Mickey, Tuesday, 21 December 2004 16:34 (twenty-one years ago)

No question now, what had happened to the faces of the Pitchfork. The creatures outside looked from pitchfork to ILM, and from ILM to pitchfork, and from pitchfork to ILM again; but already it was impossible to say which was which."

― Bidfurd, Tuesday, 21 December 2004 16:36 (twenty-one years ago)

"I'm all for British hip-hop, but does it always have to sound so damn cold? I was just in England, and it doesn't get that wintry; yet the sound of garage/grime continues to sound more foreboding, metallic, and icy."

Spoken like a tru Brit: stuff all these ponced-up 'sociological' pseudo-explanations for musical stlye: it's all about the weather, innit.

― henry miller, Tuesday, 21 December 2004 16:38 (twenty-one years ago)

It's a very Fluxblog list, too: so much so that Scott even used the term "fluxpop" in his "Heartbeat" writeup!

― jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 21 December 2004 16:42 (twenty-one years ago)

wtf! beyonce 'naughty girl' at 10? are they fucking kidding?

― henry miller, Tuesday, 21 December 2004 16:52 (twenty-one years ago)

Yeah, that's a bit of a surprise. Esp. since there's no "Lose My Breath." It's a great tune, though. I just didn't realize people liked it that much.

― jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 21 December 2004 16:55 (twenty-one years ago)

My ex-girlfriend, whose favorite bands ever are R.E.M., Wilco, and Radiohead, just wrote me this e-mail:

so i am listening to the #1 single of 2004 according to pitchfork.
it is not that good. curious.
i don't knwo what was the #1 single but not that.
ick.

― jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 21 December 2004 17:19 (twenty-one years ago)

I wonder how much hate mail they'll get for that list. It's pretty clear that the tastes of Pitchfork as a whole have changed, but I wonder how long it takes before the majority of their audience is on the same page.

― Matthew Perpetua (Matthew Perpetua), Tuesday, 21 December 2004 17:22 (twenty-one years ago)

Man, Pitchfork certainly love the pop for two weeks in every year.

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Tuesday, 21 December 2004 17:26 (twenty-one years ago)

any plans to list the albums first next time? and wind up the year with the singles list? or like, gather outside Pitchfork HQ and burn old Radiohead t-shirts

― rollergrrl, Tuesday, 21 December 2004 17:54 (twenty-one years ago)

It smacks of "trying too hard", but for the moment my pitchfork fatwa is put on hold...

― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Tuesday, 21 December 2004 18:03 (twenty-one years ago)

"Naughty Girl" is really good (as I rediscovered to my surprise the other week) but the most underrated Beyoncé single is still "Baby Boy".

― The Lex (The Lex), Tuesday, 21 December 2004 18:13 (twenty-one years ago)

The most underrated Beyonce song in general is "Yes," though. That one really should've been a single instead of "Me Myself And I."

― Matthew Perpetua (Matthew Perpetua), Tuesday, 21 December 2004 18:21 (twenty-one years ago)

Me, yesterday: "Well, got my P&J ballot. I'm probably going to give Annie's 'Heartbeat' the #1 single slot, though I have absolutely no idea if anyone else even considers it the best single of the year."

Me, today: "WHAT THE FUCK?"

― MC Transmaniacon (natepatrin), Tuesday, 21 December 2004 18:21 (twenty-one years ago)

Man, Pitchfork certainly love the pop for two weeks in every year.

OTM.

― miccio (miccio), Tuesday, 21 December 2004 18:27 (twenty-one years ago)

Pitchfork has been hinting that "Heartbeat" would be #1 for a bit. Both the review of the album and the single review called it the best song of the year.

The Britt Daniel Remix of Interpol's "Slow Hands" should have replaced
"Slow Hands" on the list. It's a MUCH better single.

― Matt Boch (Matt Boch), Tuesday, 21 December 2004 18:29 (twenty-one years ago)

Some guy in Stereogum's comments box:

Sometimes I think PFM pretends to like shit they really know is horrible just to show how truly ironic and indie they are by enjoying the anti-indie.

Of course!

It's funny to see indie kids all angry cos there isn't enough white guitar rock on Pitchfork's list.

― Matthew Perpetua (Matthew Perpetua), Tuesday, 21 December 2004 18:29 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm pretty sure that Annie's album is in their top 20 albums too. It'll be interesting to see what this does for Annie's career in America.

― Matthew Perpetua (Matthew Perpetua), Tuesday, 21 December 2004 18:30 (twenty-one years ago)

Where is Ghostface's "Run"? That should totally be there.

― La Monte (La Monte), Tuesday, 21 December 2004 18:32 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm sure that The Pretty Toney Album will make the album chart, La Monte.

― Matthew Perpetua (Matthew Perpetua), Tuesday, 21 December 2004 18:34 (twenty-one years ago)

How much f*cking better is the ILM rolling 2004 singles thread???

― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Tuesday, 21 December 2004 18:36 (twenty-one years ago)

"Heartbeat" hasn't even been released yet, I wonder if it will make a lot of Top 2005 singles polls as well. I have to say I really like the Royksopp remix of it.

I'm glad that everytime you go to Pitchfork for the next week or so, you'll see that Stina Nordenstam review in the corner (will she make the album list?! She was #23 on Stylus.)

― Michael F Gill (Michael F Gill), Tuesday, 21 December 2004 18:42 (twenty-one years ago)

according to Amoeba the Annie album is getting released stateside in February. since I'm too clumsy to DL, I have to wait til then

― Riot Gear! (Gear!), Tuesday, 21 December 2004 18:46 (twenty-one years ago)

Well, here's what her website says :

The single will be released on February 28th and will feature further heavyweight dancefloor mixes from Alan Braxe, Maurice Fulton and the wonderful Phones (featuring Maximo Park). Her highly anticipated debut album 'Anniemal' follows on March 7th on 679 Recordings.

― Michael F Gill (Michael F Gill), Tuesday, 21 December 2004 18:52 (twenty-one years ago)

I like the list. Well, I like it more than most Pitchfork lists. Still - two mentions of the "importance" of Scissor Sisters and not one of their singles made it...schizophrenia?

I know they probably don't belong on a Top 50 singles list (the album, definitely; for the singles, probably not), but they deserve it more than a lot of the filler thrust on there. Comfortably Numb would have made sense.

― Atnevon (Atnevon), Tuesday, 21 December 2004 18:54 (twenty-one years ago)

Scissor Sisters' choice of singles was bizarre and terrible - I love them but wouldn't consider any of the singles for my list.

― The Lex (The Lex), Tuesday, 21 December 2004 18:57 (twenty-one years ago)

Don't forget, folks - you can find out who's to thank / blame by checking out the individual lists!

Yeah, Atnevon - being one of the folks to mention the SS, I was surprised that they didn't get any love on the singles list (though they're in there by proxy via Kylie). I just assumed that "Laura" (or "MARY"!!!) would get some love - I think "Comfortably Numb" was a 2K3 single, so it wasn't eligible.

― David R. (popshots75`), Tuesday, 21 December 2004 19:00 (twenty-one years ago)

"Yeah" is way too low.

I agree with J Kwon. That song was being played really heavily around the same time that Rubberband Man came out, and it was a glorious, glorious week for people who like interesting percussion.

― David Allen (David Allen), Tuesday, 21 December 2004 19:04 (twenty-one years ago)

a shameless plug, but today i posted my singles list complete with two cds of 2004 singles for download. link.

― Yanc3y (ystrickler), Tuesday, 21 December 2004 19:07 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm sure that the Scissor Sisters LP will make the albums list. When I did my P&J ballot, I didn't vote for one of their singles, but put the album way up high.

― Matthew Perpetua (Matthew Perpetua), Tuesday, 21 December 2004 19:11 (twenty-one years ago)

"Heartbeat" will probably be my #2 or #3 single on P&J.

― jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 21 December 2004 19:16 (twenty-one years ago)

compare and contrast:

Britain's Playlouder
Playlouder - Top 50 Singles of 2004
http://www.playlouder.com/top50/2004/singles.html

― DJ Martian (djmartian), Tuesday, 21 December 2004 19:24 (twenty-one years ago)

I haven't heard the rest of those "Heartbeat" remixes, but I like the Maurice Fulton one a lot.

― jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 21 December 2004 19:25 (twenty-one years ago)

Pitchfork needs to get off ILM's nuts. How many songs are on this list that are NOT on the Rolling 2004 Best Singles Thread?? TWO!?!?!??

― Mr. Snrub (Mr. Snrub), Tuesday, 21 December 2004 19:29 (twenty-one years ago)

But the Rolling 2004 Best Singles Thread has like a million songs on it!

― jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 21 December 2004 19:33 (twenty-one years ago)

Oh please. If there were only two songs on the list from ILM Rolling Singles list (which is 600 strong, c'mon, it's statistically difficult NOT to repeat a lot of that list if you're making a tasteful list), everyone would be all "Pitchfork is so rockist and indie-centric."

ILX basically won the argument with Pfork. What's the problem?

Pfork: "I don't agree with you."

ILX: "Agree with me! Why won't you agree with me?"

Pfork: "I agree with you now."

ILX: "You agree with me too much! Disagree with me!"

― Matthew Perpetua (Matthew Perpetua), Tuesday, 21 December 2004 19:35 (twenty-one years ago)

The Playlouder list is much better. That "Kim Wilde" song is brilliant; that Scissor Sisters song is brilliant; that Girls Aloud song is brilliant. And it doesn't have fucking MIA on it.

― Mr. Snrub (Mr. Snrub), Tuesday, 21 December 2004 19:39 (twenty-one years ago)

Annie's website has a Royksopp remix of "Heartbeat" available for download (if you pony up your e-mail address) (and can play .WMV files) - on first listen, it's not worth the hassle, but I'm not the one to listen to re: these sorts of things.

― David R. (popshots75`), Tuesday, 21 December 2004 19:42 (twenty-one years ago)

Ha, I think the remix of Heartbeat is better than the original! I'll probably be the only one.

Speaking of Heartbeats, The Knife didn't show up on Pfork's list.

― Michael F Gill (Michael F Gill), Tuesday, 21 December 2004 20:50 (twenty-one years ago)

That's probably because The Knife "Heartbeats" is a single from 2003.

― Matthew Perpetua (Matthew Perpetua), Tuesday, 21 December 2004 21:05 (twenty-one years ago)

Still - two mentions of the "importance" of Scissor Sisters and not one of their singles made it...schizophrenia?

Even worse is the fact that they mention Girls Aloud when talking about the great pop of 2004 (in the #1 blurb), but forget to put "The Show" (=best single of the year) anywhere in teh list.

― Koens (Koens), Tuesday, 21 December 2004 21:31 (twenty-one years ago)

While not much of a Pitchfork lover, the list was pretty good. Scott Plagenhoef is a god amongst men, too.

― edward o (edwardo), Tuesday, 21 December 2004 23:26 (twenty-one years ago)

The Playlouder list is much better. [...] And it doesn't have fucking MIA on it.

I think someone put "and" where they meant "but" and forgot an "awesome" after the "fucking"

― STOP WITH YOUR PTANS (natepatrin), Tuesday, 21 December 2004 23:27 (twenty-one years ago)

fluxblog so much to answer for!

― cºzen (Cozen), Tuesday, 21 December 2004 23:42 (twenty-one years ago)

The Playlouder list - Franz Ferdinand and the Beastie Boys (what now in 2004?!) directly above Dizzee Rascal and Girls Aloud made me gawp in distress.

The Pitchfork list - 1) it's a good thing that they're copying ILM popist tendencies, 2) yeah there's stuf I don't like eg lack of Girls Aloud and presence of much bad indie, but 3) I love the entire top 5 without reservation, and any list which does that makes me pleased.

― The Lex (The Lex), Tuesday, 21 December 2004 23:46 (twenty-one years ago)

1. i voted VERY highly for 'the show' and was extremely sad that it didn't make it into the top 50

2. top ten for 'naughty girl' is kind of ridiculous

3. i hate myself for forgetting 'rubicon' (i thought it was 2003!!)

4. pitchfork circa-plagenhoef is a very different animal than it was 2-3 years ago. whether it's better or worse depends entirely on your tastes and biases, but i think people need to acknowledge the regime change before they go speculating on pfork's 'ironic' new pop stance.

― mark p (Mark P), Wednesday, 22 December 2004 01:34 (twenty-one years ago)

Why the surprise? Their list from last year also had a lot of pop in it. Then again, a singles list is more conducive to pop, but it's always a different story with albums lists. If Annie and Girls Aloud finish #1-#2, then colour me surprised.

― MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Wednesday, 22 December 2004 01:38 (twenty-one years ago)

If Annie and Girls Aloud finish #1-#2, then colour me surprised.

These are my top two right now! although MIA may throw a spanner in the uber-popist works.

― The Lex (The Lex), Wednesday, 22 December 2004 01:40 (twenty-one years ago)

Playlouder having "Kim Wilde" at #1 is all kinds of awesome.

The Pitchfork list was fine--really it was fairly interchangable with the Stylus list, no more tokenist or "trying too hard" or anything like that. I think I like ours a bit more, but we didn't have Soulwax or Christina Milian, so it's a trade-off.

― The Good Dr. Bill (The Good Dr. Bill), Wednesday, 22 December 2004 07:15 (twenty-one years ago)

omg, "hot love" made the list. my fave song of 2004. yay

― phil-two (phil-two), Wednesday, 22 December 2004 07:47 (twenty-one years ago)

The Annie singles are complete trash fags.

― James Voytas, Wednesday, 22 December 2004 07:49 (twenty-one years ago)

Tuesday, December 21, 2004
An Open Letter to Pitchfork Media » posted by Jeremy Franchi » 1:13 PM
Pitchfork released their Top 50 Singles of 2004 list today. To no one's surprise, it's ass. As a result, I'll use this forum to compose an open letter to Ryan Schreiber and the Pitchfork crew:
Dear Pitchfork,
I have read your most recent article in your fine publication entitled, "Top 50 Singles of 2004." While there are certainly some choice selections in there, I am a bit confused about what I can only hope are elaborate, haphazardly-coherent typos. I have proofread the article a dozen times now, and have compiled this list of discrepancies:
#39: Snoop Dogg [ft. Pharrell] - "Drop It Like It's Hot"
Let's see, one of the most talentless rappers in the industry, who uses his distorted mug to hock Nokia phones (Nokia is the new Cripp, FYI), collides with the most mediocre and over-hyped producer in history. Yeah, as far as rap goes, it's a good thing you ranked this track higher than The Streets' "Dry Your Eyes." Mike Skinner's gritty narrative and organic basement beats can't possibly compete with a bunch of smacktards screeching "SNOOOOOOP!" ad nauseum.
#32: Belle and Sebastian - "I'm a Cuckoo [by the Avalanches]"
As much as I love the Avalanches, Belle and Sebastian are just gay. That is all.
#31: J-Kwon - "Tipsy"
Oh wow, a hip-hop song with a painfully uninspired beat and an MC who can't help but slur his shit-faced lyrics about getting drunk! And in a club, no less! This is why God created turn-tables.
#28: Big & Rich - "Save a Horse (Ride a Cowboy)"
You have got to be fucking kidding me. This song is what happens when a bad Led Zeppelin rip-off and Honky-Tonk country have an 18-hour fuckathon. Not to mention the album cover looks like a local Ford Trucks commercial and Looney Tunes fused together inside of the Matrix.
#19: Usher [ft. Lil Jon & Ludacris] - "Yeah!"
We were SO CLOSE to pushing Usher off the face of the planet forever. So damn close. He was dead and buried as far as anyone knew, so what is the one thing that can raise his lanky corpse from the dirt? You guessed it, a sociopathic alcoholic with Tourette's. I will lay it down right here and now for the record: an obnoxious 4-second sample repeated for five minutes while Dave Chappelle's fuck buddy screams like a maniac is not music. Crunk is not real, it's a figment of our imaginations.
#16: Gwen Stefani - "What You Waiting For?"
Well, ska is dead, and the whole pseudo-hip-hop thing on "Rock Steady" didn't work out. Might as well sell your soul entirely and morph into a pop princess.
#07: Franz Ferdinand - "Take Me Out"
A note to every dance-punk band ever: you are not Joy Division. Stop. Dance-punk is the new swing revival, only far less charming.
#03: Britney Spears - "Toxic"
Why has it become hip to like music you're traditionally supposed to hate? Does this scheme eventually cycle back to a point where it's hip to hate the music you're supposed to hate? Pitchfork writer Rob Mitchum says that his usual disrespect for Britney's "music and persona" was because it was "laced" with "the red flags of hitting/slaving misogyny, leering pedophilia, and mannequin sexuality." (eg. "Hit Me Baby One More Time," "Slave 4 U.") Yeah, I think that warrants something a bit stronger than the notion of vague subtlety inherent in the word "laced." And you're right, this song is the new, more mature phase for Britney, signifying once and for all the end of her naughty jail-bait schoolgirl phase, ushering in the full-blown Amsterdam-approved whorehouse phase. What's a girl to do?
So you see, Pitchfork, I am very thankful to have you to show me the way to look fresh and "in" at frat parties. With this information, I will surely appear as though I "get it" from now on when sucking on the hose end of a beer bong. You truly are a beacon of hipsterness; the internet version of MTV2.

Rock on London!
Jeremy Franchi

http://www.violenceistheanswer.org/2004/12/open-letter-to-pitchfork-media.html

(Before you condemn the whole blog keep in mind that, hey, I write for it too and don't share those views -- except for the Belle and Sebastian one.)

― David Allen (David Allen), Wednesday, 22 December 2004 13:21 (twenty-one years ago)

Yes, "Take Me Out" sounds exactly like Joy Division.

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Wednesday, 22 December 2004 13:32 (twenty-one years ago)

there is a vocal version of rubicon?

― :| (....), Wednesday, 22 December 2004 13:38 (twenty-one years ago)

Ten entries in and I knew an American wrote this...

― C_Zar, Wednesday, 22 December 2004 13:42 (twenty-one years ago)

Wow, I feel bad for that Jeremy guy. He seems like he might have some kind of severe brain damage or something.

― Matthew Perpetua (Matthew Perpetua), Wednesday, 22 December 2004 13:46 (twenty-one years ago)

the individual lasts are interesting, only 4 of them have "heartbeat" listed as their #1 pick. the other rankings of the songs should have brought her down.

― maria tessa sciarrino (theoreticalgirl), Wednesday, 22 December 2004 14:05 (twenty-one years ago)

Singles = Scott
Albums = Ryan

Yawn.

― Chris Ott (Chris Ott), Wednesday, 22 December 2004 14:16 (twenty-one years ago)

Also: "fluxpop-- tracks with a pop sensibility and communicative, crossover potential that are nevertheless more often transferred via 0s and 1s than Hot 97s or Radio Ones."

I don't think it's making the Oxford-Am, Scott, but huge points for subtlety.

― Chris Ott (Chris Ott), Wednesday, 22 December 2004 14:20 (twenty-one years ago)

Albums = Ryan
Yawn

Ott = OTM. This was the most predictable list yet! At least when the Rapture were #1 last year it was seriously WTF. There's not a hint of surprise.

X-Post

― blackmail.is.my.life (blackmail.is.my.life), Wednesday, 22 December 2004 14:49 (twenty-one years ago)

"Pop sensibility" = pop music that isn't popular?

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Wednesday, 22 December 2004 15:39 (twenty-one years ago)

can do

― Frankenstein On Ice (blueski), Wednesday, 22 December 2004 15:40 (twenty-one years ago)

This is what you want, this is what you get. This is what you want, this is what you get. This is what you want, this is what you get. This is what you want, this is what you get. This is what you want, this is what you get. This is what you want, this is what you get. This is what you want, this is what you get. This is what you want, this is what you get.

― Chris Ott (Chris Ott), Wednesday, 22 December 2004 15:44 (twenty-one years ago)

Why should a year-end list have a "hint of surprise"?

― jaymc (jaymc), Wednesday, 22 December 2004 16:56 (twenty-one years ago)

Probably so there's more to argue about, Jaymc.

For once, it's nice to look at a list and think "yeah, that seems reasonable" rather than wanting to beat the writers/voters with sharpened sticks. Maybe that's just me.

― Matthew Perpetua (Matthew Perpetua), Wednesday, 22 December 2004 17:35 (twenty-one years ago)

A note to every dance-punk band ever: you are not Joy Division. Stop. Dance-punk is the new swing revival, only far less charming.

He'll get no argument from me.

― MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Wednesday, 22 December 2004 18:58 (twenty-one years ago)

Funny, I came REAL close to voting for Annie's "The Greatest Hit" in my pazz and jop singles list two years ago (back when I and I assume everybody else in America had no idea who she was) only to decide otherwise at the last moment when I found out it was already a couple years old. (I'd heard it on the same *Telle* compilation where I first heard Royksopp.) Still haven't heard "Chewing Gum," "Heartbeat," or her album; I assume I'll like them, when I do. But maybe not, since I didn't wind up liking Royksopp's album much.

As of the Pitchfork list, it is not bad. I'm happy Big & Rich made it.

― chuck, Wednesday, 22 December 2004 19:05 (twenty-one years ago)

Still haven't heard "Chewing Gum," "Heartbeat," or her album; I assume I'll like them, when I do.

I'd be interested on your take -- it doesn't remind me of Royksopp much, to be frank, probably because her voice and the bass just sound more happening, as it were.

"Heartbeat" is good but you know, I still hum "Chewing Gum" a lot more.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 22 December 2004 19:10 (twenty-one years ago)

Yeah, it's way more exciting than Royksopp.

― jaymc (jaymc), Wednesday, 22 December 2004 22:36 (twenty-one years ago)

Why do we have to diss one in order to praise the other?! They're certainly not mutually exclusive.

― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Wednesday, 22 December 2004 22:47 (twenty-one years ago)

The fact that the entries in these end-of-year singles lists are 60-70% the same tells me one very important thing: There were not a lot of good singles to choose from this year.

― Mr. Snrub, Wednesday, 22 December 2004 23:47 (twenty-one years ago)

wrong.

― henrod eldrix, Wednesday, 22 December 2004 23:50 (twenty-one years ago)

what a weird list. i can't believe there are two justus kohncke singles on it.

― it's tricky (disco stu), Thursday, 23 December 2004 03:09 (twenty-one years ago)

i thought t-mobile was the new cripp, not nokia......anyway i like "drop it like it's hot." that pitchfork list is ok, except "yeah" should be #1. "heartbeat" is a great song though...um yeah i'm done...back to lurking...

― mysterious lurker, Thursday, 23 December 2004 05:40 (twenty-one years ago)

a shameless plug, but today i posted my singles list complete with two cds of 2004 singles for download

clarification Yancey - the tracks on the blog are the straight single versions but the yousendit ones* are mixed by you?

(*aka no good for dial-up peons)

(PS while on the topic of year-end mixes who do we have to fuck to get el mannion's splendid ultramix in higher than 64kbps?)

― kit brash (kit brash), Thursday, 23 December 2004 11:02 (twenty-one years ago)

who do we have to fuck to get el mannion's splendid ultramix in higher than 64kbps?

This question is begging for an answer...

― CharlieNo4 (Charlie), Thursday, 23 December 2004 12:55 (twenty-one years ago)

Ms Petrus!ch: Get one dictionary:

Matsumi Kanamori babbles incomprehensibly, squeaking appropriately monosyllabic words ("boobie", "rich", "party", "beauty")

― OleM (OleM), Thursday, 23 December 2004 16:05 (twenty-one years ago)

This question is begging for an answer...

It's on Slsk, I thought.

― jaymc (jaymc), Thursday, 23 December 2004 16:32 (twenty-one years ago)

I noticed that "monosyllabic" thing too. I was surprised, cos Amanda's usually pretty sharp.

― Matthew Perpetua (Matthew Perpetua), Thursday, 23 December 2004 16:41 (twenty-one years ago)

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