Space Rock

i'm never really sure where space rock is different from drone rock is different from post rock is different from just plain old indie, but i'll do my best here.

Grimble Grumble produced, in my eyes at least, the finest space rock song, 'Second Mind' which was a split single with Azusa Plane on Enraptured records. had a pop dynamic, but was 'wooshy' which i think makes these things count?

first Bowery Electric album? downhill after this when they tried to incorporate loops etc (a laudible idea, but it just didn't work. too stilted). but first lp was very good, more drone rock though?

i think Cerberus Shoal's 'And Farewell to Hightide' is post rock, but that is a brilliant album

i find Stars of The Lid and Windy & Carl rather disappointing, but i may have heard the wrong records.

Fuxa are ok, but too insubstantial

do Alisons Halo count? or are they retrograde-shoegaze-semigoth-pop? Eyedazzler is very good (the 2nd half of that album anyway)

have more to say on these and other records, but we'll see what others have to say first

You should subscribe to the droneon list, that'll provide the discussion you're looking for.

Brilliant!

Grimble Grumble are one of my favorite bands, though I have only one 12", the limited one with "let it take you to where it goes" (I think that's the name..?)

The second Bowery is by far better than the first- check it out if you can!

Cerberus Shoal, Alisons Halo, Eyedazzler- never heard of them! D'you have any further information??? Any mp3's?

About the names- I guess that at the end of the day, they're all the same thing more or less. Shoe-gaze, Space rock, Drone rock etc'... Mind you- Slowdive, mainly remembered as "shoe-gazers" came out with the brilliant Pygmalion, which many would say is one of the first Post rock Albums, and kinda think of it- we may as well say the same thing about the Cocteu twins, Spacemen 3 and so on... ;)

About SOTL- the last album is A real masterpiece and Windy & Carl's consciousness is one of the best albums I've got- you can listen to a couple of tracks from it on www.epitonic.com

Cheers

Mark-

What and were is that droneon list???

ta,

"i think Cerberus Shoal's 'And Farewell to Hightide' is post rock, but that is a brilliant album"

wow .. nice, Gareth. Few people I've talked to know of this album, and it is so damn good! My enthusiasm has faded a bit over the years, of course .. for instance, "JBO vs. Blin" used to be my favorite track, but now I recognize the emo-esque flaws for what they are. But it's still their best album.

For dubflower's benefit, Cerberus Shoal are a collective of musicians from Maine. They started off just out of high school, with some very emo-screamo roots, but gradually evolved a more original sound. "And Farewell to Hightide" (the earliest album that is still commercially available) is slow, highly emotional rock music, similar to Mogwai or Godspeed You Black Emperor! in its patient development and ethereal tone. The album is a bit like Wish You Were Here or Animals: there are only five songs, the first, third and last of which have vocals, the second and fourth being instrumentals. The instrumentals build slowly from playfully-repetitive rhythms until they coil and lash out at the end. The vocal tracks are a bit overly ambitious, but for the most part this is forgivable. The exception is the last piece ... it's basically spoken-word emo by some kid who sounds like he's coming down off of acid, and it ruins the beautiful, soft music ..

It's a really unique project, though, and definitely worth hearing. Since then, they've shifted from vocal-based extended-length rock to a more instrumental, tribal sound. I'm sad to say that it hasn't been the best of choices. The following album, "Elements of Structure/Permanence" is actually good -- two songs, one 20 minutes in length, the other 30, both recorded in one setting in a house (a la Set Fire to Flames) as improvised soundtrack music to experimental films by a band's friend. Here the development between the delay-fed guitars, bass, drums and various percussion implements is glacial and perfect ... jam music that isn't too tripped out or abstract.

but since then the hippy trends have taken over the band. they've learned to play about 20 more instruments, including shakuhachi, didgeridoo, tablas, etc., but the songwriting element has faded for an emphasis on improvisation, and not in a good sense. "Homb" was an off- and on album .. it had some good moments, but likewise many went off on tribal tangents that became too new-agey. Their live shows during this period also had a reputation for being too pretentious and avant-garde too, playing with these Reichian trance cycles that just weren't that exciting.

But I can't comment on "Crash My Moon Yacht" since I haven't heard it, and they have a new album coming out in January 2002, "Mr. Boy Dog," that is supposed to be their 'hardest' music yet. I'm eager to see what that means ..

i haven't liked anything post-hightide, chris is on the money in regard to the hippyness of this stuff, think 'ethnicy' junk shops. awful.

but i don't know about their lives shows of this period. i knew someone who went to their last (only?) british show at kentish town bull&gate (late99??), and said that what they played wasn't like the hippy stuff that was on record at that time.

So does anyone has a smaple/mp3 to share..? Sounds like they just might be what I'm after! Thanks for everything:)

By the by- D'you have any ideas for other names- something more similar to Slowdive's Just for a Day?

Cheers

well, i guess yr moving closer to shoegazing type stuff with that. in which case i would suggest Medicine's Shot Forth Self Living album, the first 3 Sweet Jesus singles (although they are more like glam- shoegaze if you can imagine such a thing), Drop Nineteens' Deleware album, this is a bit patchier, but has many high points. Smashing Orange's early 12s are good too.

Hmmm-

well, again- I'm not too sure about that shoe-gazers title... Slowdive were related more to 'popish' tunes yet their sound was somewhere else. There was something truly mellow soothing about their sound, something you can find today in many post rock / space rock bands- something that many "shoe gazers" (such as medicine...) were lacking (not to say for better or for worst!). So all the others you've mentioned, now that I've tried to be more specific, do you still think they're what I'm looking for?

Many thanx for everything:)

How dare you people have this kind of discussion without e-mailing me directly demanding my instantaneous presence. *smacks everyone upside the head*

First, thanks for more info on Cerebus Shoal there, I have some of their releases but not this early one of which you speak, so off I will search. Gareth *has* heard the wrong Windy and Carl and Stars of the Lid, obviously, and will rectify this error before I will speak to him again. HMF!

The amount of Slowdive semi-clones seems to be growing rather than thrinking in the realm of the 'gaze subculture -- I suspect more and more people are getting terribly tired of waiting on Neil and Rachel to return to whence they came, musically speaking. You mention liking Landing already, dubflower, so may I suggest a semi-spinoff band, Surface of Eceon? They just released an album on Strange Attractors Audio House that's very good -- it's most of Landing collaborating with two of the guys from Yume Bitsu -- and the opening track very much reminds me of Slowdive's dynamics if not entirely their song structures.

Bethany Curve is another long-standing 'gaze band -- now up to their third album -- who clearly love Slowdive; seek for the Gold album for the opening song alone. Alison's Halo is indeed mighty fine, and there are other Arizona types worth the scrounging, like Half String and Lovesliescrushing. There's also Auburn Lull from Michigan, Polar from Florida (now defunct, maybe?), Study of the Lifeless from Nashville...Drive-In Records has been releasing a reasonable amount of gaze-inspired stuff as well, Buddha on the Moon, Hydroplane, Air Formation, etc.

I'd also recommend Flowchart's Cumulus Mood Twang, which is the best MBV-inspired record that doesn't seek to replicate it. It captures the queasiness but in different ways, endlessly listenable.

rather than thrinking

Wow, who knew you could type a lisp? ;-)

Polar were great. I only have the EP, "Lies Set by the Polar Mob," and I think I particularly appreciate it -because- of the demo sound quality ... the echo and sustain sound very appropriate for their gloomy, brooding little works. Each song was different, too -- from gothic ethereality to sadcore-with-a-strangely-optimistic-country- twist-at-the-end to wall-of-noise rock .. I think that EP and their full-length album are still available on a website.

But yes, Polar is defunct, though the main songwriters Ed and Kristy are now in Orlando, recording as 'Con Dolore.' You can get mp3s at mp3.com. Haven't listened to them an incredible amount, but they sound a bit more conventional as far as songwriting goes. Kind of an unfortunate turn, I hope they stay somewhat abstract, and also don't forget how to rock. But the songs still sound good, and Kristy's voice is as nice on the ears as ever. They actually just released their first album in November, but I've not had a chance to hear it yet. I was kind of hoping it would appear at Pitchfork.

I will go ahead and second Ned on Surface of Eceon... I haven't picked it up yet, but I heard most of it when it was on heavy rotation at WCWM, and it's very well-done. That reminds me, I've been meaning to put an order in to Strange Attractors...

Also, I'm afraid this is going to be such a "well, duh!" suggestion, but you really need to get your hands on Labradford's first (self- titled) album. It's an absolutely devastating listen, scraping drones and washes of feedback and effects (now couldn't that just describe anything we've been talking about? ;-) that manage to be heavy and light at the same time, bright and dark. The last track "Everlast" gives me chills every time I listen to it; it was the last thing I played at Night of the Living Drone (see earlier thread ;-) and it was REALLY powerful--just ask Chris!

Also, if you haven't gotten into them yet (sorry to keep hedging my suggestions like this), the first wave of post-rock bands--esp. Bark Psychosis, Seefeel, and Disco Inferno--would probably really interest you.

Simon Reynolds has an article on the Wire's website from some years back in which he actually coined the phrase "post-rock"--you should check it out if you haven't already.

http://www.thewire.co.uk/articles/index.htm (under "Thinkpieces")

do i have to SHOUT!!!!!!!!

the made

That reminds me, I've been meaning to put an order in to Strange Attractors...

The guy who runs the label is a friendly fellow! Drop him a line and tell him I sent you or something. He says on-line ordering will be available in a couple of weeks.

Cool, thanks for the word-up, Ned! I may just wait until they have online ordering up--it'll probably be a few weeks for my check to get there and get processed anyway!

Many thanks for all of the info and good will!! Will get back to you as soon as I'll get my hands on some of the names just to let you know... :)

ps- what is that "Strange Attractors"?

con dolore is not all that conventional, it is not quite as fuzzy as polar but would still rank as shoegazing even if some songs sound a bit like old curve but why they let the guy sing is a mystery. the best american shoegazing release ever was by a band from Detroit called Spectacle who amazingly combined Slowdive and Pale Saints into one package on their wonderful mini-lp 'developing in a world without sound' and then had some guy take their name go to LA and record another Spectacle record and really suck. Isobella is the closest to Slowdive of any current band i know although the girl isn't much of a singer.

Tremendous thread. Nice to see Hydroplane mentioned. Rilly rilly liked their 2001 CD, although more Piano Magic-ky than space rocky to my ears.

True fact: Labradford's 1st album was called Prazision. They also had a self-titled album later, but that's not the one Clarke describes.

Any opinions on Windsor for the Derby? I only have Calm Hades Float, and my opinion says it's crap, but I keep seeing references to their later stuff as better than crap. And Michael Gira seems to agree.

Oops! Thanks, Curt--the one I was talking about indeed was Prazision LP. I haven't even heard the self-titled one! But damn if Prazision isn't a monster.

Hawkwind's "Doremifasollatido" & "Space Ritual" sink all this fey modern crap like a soggy turd!

oops i forgot 1 of my new years resolutions already, sorry.

the scatological references & gratuitous swearing one.

Hey & can I plug a record a friend of mine put out? "Assassins of Silence/100 Watt Violence" on Ceres - it's a Hawkwind tribute with Monoshock, Temple of Bon Matin, Vocokesh, F/i, Brother JT's Fuzzface, New Bomb Turks, Space Dust (that's my band! with me in it!), all kindsa good bands, some hard core space rock, some other stuff, nearly all good (best tribute album ever prob'ly but i know that's not saying very much)

That actually does sound pretty good. Where can it be found? And are you a fan of Calvert's solo stuff? That Captain Lockheed record is a trip.

May I urge everyone to go to Windy and Carl's record store and buy all the groups mentioned on this thread there and make them rich? Thanks, you're a great crowd.

...jesus h, once again yr racer kontemplates buying more rekkidz - curse you Ned !!

Would yer rekord-releasing friend be doug pearson by any chance duane? I'm on a couple of mail lists that he's also on, and he seems like a decent sort all round. Also, IIRC, f/i is the band of grant richter from the wiard synthesiser co, and I've always wondered what they're like. Any pointers? Ta!

Oh, and "Captain Lockheed & the Starfighters" is one of the raddest rekords ever made. Good call Ned!

Thank you, thank you very much. ;-)