Wow, Dylan and the Dead.

7 tracks, not quite £1 per track. I wish i'd bought 7 double cheeseburgers and got food poisoning instead.

Much as I love Paul Williams, if he thinks a Dylan record is horrible, it's definitely THE WORST ALBUM OF ALL TIME.

Quick. Tell me what movie that is from.

(It's in his book, Mind Out Of Time: Bob Dylan - Performing Artist 1986-1990 And Beyond.

In "Chronicles," Dylan says he was feeling washed-up and was about to bail on the tour at the first rehearsal, then he wandered into a bar and had an epiphany watching the band onstage!

http://www.jimmccrary.com/pages/page75/images/paul.jpg
Augh! I hated that record!

inasmuch as they both lived their lives as wandering troubadours whose stage performances were largely improvisatory and largely free of any kind of overt image-making
Until the "and" I thought you were responding to my Gorgeous George post.

I retort you with:
"Jerry, Jerry, Jerry, Do You Love Me?" by Bobby ZimSherman

I suppose Deadheads like it. They love everything ever done by their favourite band anyway.

keep telling yourself that,

I have a good story from that tour: a close friend of mine worked as an assistant road manager on it, and one night he walked around the statium with Dylan, who was in disguise. My friend had never met nor talked to Dylan, and Dylan didn't talk to him the whole time. He wasn't recognized, and they walked around for a good forty minutes or so in total silence. When they got backstage, Dylan turned to him and said (in reference to the crowd), "Man, these people really are the DREGS aren't they?"

anyway, the Dead themselves had a love/hate relationship with the audience

Conan O'Brien had a funny story about meeting Dylan that involved Al Gore.

I suppose Deadheads like it
I actually enjoyed the Mr. Magoo-like obliviousness of this post.

I think Garcia was extraoridinarily talented, but I wish he'd had a better band. One with a backbeat instead of a lope. Don't get me wrong, when the lope worked it was great: "He's Gone," "Ramblin' Rose," I love those early '70s songs. But too often you've got the drums off lazily somewhere and Lesh playing some lumbering bass solo on top of everyone else.

But I think Garcia playing with Grisman, the Garcia Band--Kahn and those folks, Tony Rice, etc., can often be sublime. Dripping. Narcotic.

P.S. Aforementioned Paul Williams also founded Crawdaddy!

Yessssh, this is awful. And I'm usually one to overlook the shortcomings of either. Passed this up for years, but recently found the latest remaster for four bucks new. Still feel like I got ripped off.

I just remember that horrible cover.

But its a slow train a'comin', don't you see?

it is a pretty bad record ... maybe the worst-ever Dylan release? still, i've heard a few good performances from that tour. it wasn't all bad. mostly bad.

http://www.goldengategallery.net/blakesberg/images/gd_dylan_tn.jpg
awkward times for everyone

Yeah, I've heard that there are lots of good performances from that tour and I've heard a couple (one of the View from the Vaults discs maybe?) - but they aren't on here.

STOP THE JORTS

i like in the second pic there, it looks like both garcia and dylan are like "oh shit, here comes Weir, pretend like you don't see him."

Lesh looks like grown-up Napoleon Dynamite

On February 25, 1986, Dylan premiered "Dark Eyes", from Empire Burlesque. This first attempt fails and the performance is interrupted. "Dark Eyes" is not performed again until Boston, Massachusetts on December 10, 1995.[21]

Did Petty et al. back Bob?

Hey, wow, look who plays on "Down in the Groove!"

Michael Baird – drums
Peggie Blu – background vocals
Alexandra Brown – background vocals
Eric Clapton – guitar
Alan Clark – keyboards
Carolyn Dennis – background vocals
Sly Dunbar – drums
Nathan East – bass guitar
Mitchell Froom – keyboards
Full Force – background vocals
Jerry Garcia – vocals
Willie Green, Jr. – background vocals
Beau Hill – keyboards
Randy "The Emperor" Jackson – bass guitar
Steve Jones – guitar
Steve Jordan – drums
Danny Kortchmar – guitar
Bobby King – background vocals
Clydie King – background vocals
Larry Klein – bass guitar
Mark Knopfler – guitar; production on "Death Is Not the End"
Brent Mydland – vocals
Madelyn Quebec – keyboards, background vocals
Robbie Shakespeare – bass guitar
Stephen Shelton – drums, keyboards, engineering, mixing
Paul Simonon – bass guitar
Henry Spinetti – drums
Bob Weir – vocals
Kip Winger – bass guitar
Ronnie Wood – bass guitar

Full Force? Paul Simonon? Kip Winger!?!

I had no idea about this! (sorry about the digression):

""Sally Sue Brown" is the only track to survive from what can only be described as one of the oddest events to occur during the recording of this album. Dylan had approached ex Sex Pistol Steve Jones, a man he had neither met nor even spoken to before, and asked him to put a band together, nobody was more surprised than Jones himself, who duly contacted Paul Simonon (bass player from the Clash). They joined Dylan in a session that Jones describes as "...surreal" and worked their way through a list of songs without really achieving anything. This unremarkable rock song is marginally better than some of the other stuff on the album, but is so far below the quality we expect from Dylan as to be totally forgettable. With its sexist overtones, the song gives us lines like "See her in that very tight skirt/Got what it takes just to make you hurt," enough said.

Bob Dylan: Vocals, Guitar/ Steve Jones: Guitar/ Myron Grombacher: Drums: Paul Simonon: Bass/ Kevin Savigar: Keyboards/ Madelyn Quebec: Vocals: Bobby King, Willie Green: Background Vocals"

I'm sort of suddenly fascinated by the timeline of this period:

"On the positive side, it has to be borne in mind that both "Down In The Groove" and "Dylan And The Dead" although released in 1988 and 1989 respectively, were products of 1987 and by the time of the release of the former he was out of that trough and recording as twenty per cent of the Traveling Wilburys. The release of the first Wilbury's album in late 1988 and the Daniel Lanois produced "Oh Mercy" in 1989 coupled with a well received tour of the USA did much to reinstate Dylan's credibility as a serious artist. "

From here: http://warehouseeyes.netfirms.com/downin.html

well we know he liked the Clash so that's no surprise. and Sly & Robbie were everywhere I guess. cannot explain Winger.

Yo yo yo dawg: Randy "The Emperor" Jackson.

Simonon sez:

Bob used to come to a lot of Clash shows, so I met him prior to that situation. I actually arrived in Los Angeles with a friend of mine named Nigel Dixon, who was in a rockabilly band. We both left to live in El Paso and form a new band together. We bought two old motorcycles and we journeyed to Los Angeles and met up with Steve Jones from the Sex Pistols. After a couple of days Steve said to me, "Paul, they need a bass player and it's for Bob Dylan. Do you fancy coming along?"

I went along and met Bob and we started to record. It was quite difficult in some ways. We'd do three songs, and by the third song I'd just about remember how the songs went before we started recording them. But instead of recording them we went on with another three songs, and then another three songs and then another three songs. So after about 12 songs he said, "Let's start from the beginning." And my memory of the first song was so vague. It was a difficult one, but it was enjoyable, and it was nice to see Bob and it was really nice to part of something unique and special.

Randy Jackson also played on Under The Red Sky, iirc.

The original "Sally Sue Brown" by Arthur Alexander:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwRuyNnL6JA

xpost And he was in Journey.

http://www.tampabay.com/resources/images/blogs/80s/54104.jpg

Oh yeah, I'm not surprised at Jackson's involvement, just never saw him referred to as The Emperor.

Randy Jackson: almost worthy

cannot explain Winger.

dude is a really good musician!

LOL at Garcia and Weir only contributing vocals to Down in the Groove - way to play to their strengths!

I did hear that there were supposed to be far better performances from the tour that weren't chosen for the lp. Not sure what made the criteria for choice. Worst performances on the tour?

Is any of what was recorded up to snuff enough to potentially constitute a future bootleg series edition? Since they seem to be being pretty revisionist in showing far better accounts of what could have been chosen for derided lps but for whatever reason weren't.

Garcia was playing pretty good in 90 even if his singing was shot on the 2 concerts I saw him at in Wembley. So this, which i think was 3 years earlier may have found him still more strung out on whatever his drug of choice at the time was. I'm not sure. Not sure if Dead were on form elsewhere and whoever did the track selection has partial hearing or something, or if they just weren't fully functioning.

http://img0.etsystatic.com/013/0/6628188/il_570xN.462532200_fn95.jpg

Would love this shirt, btw.

i actually find the music pretty zippy and enjoyable on this. and while Bob arguably sounds less inclined to give a shit than ever, he's somehow alluring just because of that; as an artist, he has the leverage to indulge vagaries to their tortured end points, and it's always entertaining to contend with how much he's capable of getting away with.

I did hear that there were supposed to be far better performances from the tour that weren't chosen for the lp.

what my buddy told me was that the tour rehearsals were where the great stuff was at...think I saw a 6 disc torrent of it once that I regret not acquiring

xxpost

here's a bunch of the rehearsals - http://archive.org/details/gd1987-06-01.sbd-rehearsals.fraser.97489.shnf
they are enjoyable.
there's an "unreleased" dylan/dead LP which i think is supposed to be the one the Dead compiled, which is better, but not incredible.

Wow.

"On the positive side, it has to be borne in mind that both "Down In The Groove" and "Dylan And The Dead" although released in 1988 and 1989 respectively, were products of 1987 and by the time of the release of the former he was out of that trough and recording as twenty per cent of the Traveling Wilburys. The release of the first Wilbury's album in late 1988 and the Daniel Lanois produced "Oh Mercy" in 1989 coupled with a well received tour of the USA did much to reinstate Dylan's credibility as a serious artist. "

the problem with this narrative is that oh, mercy is just another shitty dylan album, although it certainly was hyped ATT as if it weren't.

personal note: i have tried many times to get into the dead, dating back to junior high (i'm in my mid-30s now). i have never been able to listen to more than 30 minutes of them w/o either completely tuning out or turning the music off in disgust. such a thin sound; such horrid singers; i just don't get it, in a way i don't think i can say of any other putatively "major" act of the rock era (that people whose taste I admire are actually into). i mean, i've bought the "best" albums, I've downloaded the boots that come in for universal praise among knowledgable fans, etc. it would be generous to say it does nothing for me.

It's not shitty but the production, as much an impediment as Empire Burlesque's, makes the bad songs worse.

I dug it at the time, but it hasn't dated well (and I'm generally not a Lanois fan, with the exception of Le Noise). "Most of the Time" is the best thing on it, but the live/video version trounces it.

fwiw, amateurist, I felt the exact same way about the Dead for a couple of decades. Nothing that was recommended to me - "Hey, check out American Beauty!" "Dude, no, Buffalo '77 is the shit!" - changed my mind. Then about two years ago I heard "Feedback" off Live/Dead, and I did a complete 180, in a way I've never experienced with any other artist.

(It's not all-encompassing, though; everything after '73 reminds me of why I hated them.)

tarfumes have you heard Ace yet? just listening to that last week. such a good record. and Compliments and Reflections are so good. Garcia's solo records. played them too. both post-73.

My experience was sort of similar to Tarfumes', in that I hated the Dead for years and years, mostly because my high school had a sizable—and vocal—contingent of '80s Deadheads, so I was subjected to many, many bootlegs, and rambling discussions thereof. Then I spent four years sharing office space with Relix magazine, which meant hearing endless hours of the Dead plus modern jam bands (Phish, the Disco Biscuits, O.A.R., et fucking al.), which only served to put them in an even more horrifying context. (The Dead are not the worst band on Earth; the Disco Biscuits are.) But at some point I picked up Live/Dead on my own, and it turned out to be pretty goddamn great, so I got the 3CD version of Fillmore West 1969 and liked that a fair bit, so I downloaded the 10-CD version, and basically came to the decision that for a few months in 1969 and 1970, the Grateful Dead had actually been onto something. I would even go so far as to say Europe '72 has its moments. But that's it; Workingman's Dead and American Beauty can still fuck right off; I'd rather listen to the Eagles.

i like this idea that they were onto something for a few months, and then lost track of it

I think they were pretty great from 67-74 and had some interesting bits elsewhere. Not so sure about 71 cos they don't seem to be quite as on the spot.
Think my favourite bits may be August '68, February-April 69, May '70 and the Veneta set from 72 & bits of the European tour. Had some bits in '73 and '74 but I can't think of what the months were in the way I can with 68 & '70.

i'm in it for the songs. i hardly ever listen to the live stuff. i own zero bootlegs. i like europe 72 for the songs. i like dead set. i don't think i've listened to any of their other live albums more than twice. i just really love hunter/garcia songs and i like jerry singing/playing. his solo stuff is wonderful. i like old & in the way. uh...some other stuff. they had way better songs than the eagles. like classic american songbook good. people will be singing those songs long after we are...dead. i like robert hunter solo albums too.

dead set/reckoning i should say. those sets two of my fave rock live albums.

Still haven't heard Ace yet! I definitely need to get on that; "Black-Throated Wind" is one of my favorite Dead songs.

they had way better songs than the eagles.

aero jr is just nuts for dead-as-played-by-dad (he doesn't give a shit for studio or live though he perks up his ears hearing songs he knows) and so I play 'em over and over and over and yeah. the basic folk craft of all the song-songs is just so good...there's a little tiny change-up in Dire Wolf, just a thrown-in E7 on on of the choruses, that enriches the song so much. I do wonder how much that one New Riders dude really had to do with a lot of that stuff though, because those dudes also have very solidly written songs & he's a cowriter on "Friend of the Devil"

Think my favourite bits may be August '68

Two From the Vault might be my favorite record of theirs.

Also, Dick's Picks 22 (Feb. '68) was a revelation: you could put this on for a hard core Velvets fan and convince them it's outtakes from 1969 Velvets shows.

definitely have gotten deeper into the dead in the past few years, after years of keeping a healthy distance. plenty of flaws, but i dunno, yeah, i've ended up really liking the songs, the overall interplay, and just the opportunity to cruise through archive.org and hear how a weird band changes throughout the years.

but they have no bass!

i've always been a fan but spent summer 2012 just devouring the dead. listened to all the main albums plus dozens of shows on the internet archive. i went into this period with "two from the vault" as my favorite, and that remains so. i'll call myself a deadhead with the full awareness that i'm really in it only from '67 to eh, i don't know, '77? probably more like until '75 in practice. well, it's probably really only '68-'72 in 95% of my dead listening. but holy shit from '68-'72 they were they best fucking band on the planet.

I went through a period of only buying live stuff if it had a "Feedback." I stopped after Dick's Picks 16, which was surprisingly awful for 1969, all meandering and "Hey, we never did decide on which notes we'd be singing for harmonies, did we?"

But it has by far the best "Feedback" of them all.

There is a naturalish break in '74 cos they retired frm playing live, which is why there are only about 6 live gigs in '75. They eased back in in '76 and played quite heavily from '77 on I think .
But '77 sees them going into Disco Dead territory which i could really live without.

i hop off the bus once keith leaves

Without A Net was my intro to the dead, album wise, and man it still smokes. They sound kind of heavy and energized on it. And Brett's gritty backing vocals are perfect.

But I saw a DVD recently (something blah from the vault) from the same period (1990) that was... not that good.

Huh. Wonder which one it was. Spring 90 is a pretty well-regarded time in Dead history.

The Wembley shows I saw in '90 were over the 3 days around Halloween. I think the playing was decent enough but Garcia sounded like he had laryngitis or something.

It's in the car right now.

So far, two tracks in and into the third. It's alright. What's the pain?

I think they apparently picked the wrong tracks cos there's supposed to be better stuff from the tour on bootleg isn't there? Might be worthy of a Bootleg series reappraisal I wonder?

Several years ago, heard a few pretty decent performances on the Grateful Dead Hour, though nothing earthshaking. Might be better tapes somewhere; anyway he says in Chronicles that the pressure of adapting to them and their take on his music (incl. songs he never had played much; they had the bootlegs), led him to remember tips from blues guitarist Lonnie Johnson (who played with all kinds of musos, even Charlie Parker) and he found the approach he later used on so much of the Endless Tour---how well it may have worked with the Dead, though, I dunno.

http://johannasvisions.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/jerry-and-bob-3.jpeg

http://alldylan.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/Jerry-and-Bob1.jpeg

Yeah, thought it was OK, and a long way from being the worst album ever, etc.

Odd that a lot of people would prefer that they chose the versions they already had on bootlegs.

I can understand if people think it a bit short, Dead gigs being long things, but then again if they hate this album so much, would they really want it to be longer?