The Strokes & Misappropriation

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I appreciate the Strokes for what they are. (To avoid/facilitate inevitable ridicule, I'll say now that what I think they are is a pack of hip rich kids that practice all day to make short, punchy, rocking songs that I can play at parties with a varied group of people and everyone will still have a good time and that's fine with me.)

That said, it seems like you can't even say "My grandma had a stroke," around most rockists without them breaking into an apoplectic fit of, "those spoiled, upper-west-side, $400 dollar bedhead haircut, riff-ripping BRATS!"

I usually just nod in agreement, but will someone help me understand what exactly (exactly) they're stealing? I dismissed the VU argument, was swayed by Television and Wire, and was definitely piqued by the Richard Hell & the Voidoids-- but I still don't see it (it).

So, will someone with an encyclopedic knowledge of bands that the Strokes allegedly steal from say, "THIS EXACT STROKE SONG" and compare with "THIS EXACT ??? SONG"? Or something.

I have: both strokes albums, all four VU studio albums and 1969 v. 1&2, pink flag, chairs missing, 154, marquee moon, blank generation, ramones, etc. ready to compare.

i don't really have even a basic understanding of guitar chords, so if you say, "You Dumbshit, the strokes totally do that C#m, F, G^b dimished progression in, like, every song" that won't be much help.

thanks.

― poortheatre (poortheatre), Thursday, 6 January 2005 08:12 (twenty-one years ago)

go get wedding present -watusi

― noizem duke (noize duke), Thursday, 6 January 2005 08:18 (twenty-one years ago)

Widespread theft across a band's entire output (a la Elastica) is relatively rare. I don't think such a charge is commonly leveled at the Strokes. But the stylistic theft is most obviously apparent, and a search of the archives will turn up countless examples of these sorts of comparisons to all the bands you named.

― MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Thursday, 6 January 2005 08:21 (twenty-one years ago)

I've already submitted this thread to 2005 Da Capo Best Music Writing.

― jaymc (jaymc), Thursday, 6 January 2005 08:24 (twenty-one years ago)

I've always thought "Is This It" sounded like The Pixies "Where is My Mind?". I still love the Strokes and have no problem with their class origins. Is there a thread on Indie and class?

― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Thursday, 6 January 2005 08:45 (twenty-one years ago)

And the drum intro to "Hard to Explain" sounds like "Mickey" by Toni Basil.

Also, "12:51" is very Cars.

― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Thursday, 6 January 2005 08:50 (twenty-one years ago)

i'm telling you tho, poortheatre, there is a song on "watusi" which is no stretch of a comparison at all. heard it the other day. can't tell you which one unfortunately...

― noizem duke (noize duke), Thursday, 6 January 2005 08:53 (twenty-one years ago)

I've also thought they sound like Smoking Popes "Need You Around".

― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Thursday, 6 January 2005 08:55 (twenty-one years ago)

As far as my tastes go, the Strokes would be a lot more exciting if they did actually drop some long dual guitar solos like Television or scrape together viola drones and sloppy blues-based jams like the VU or deconstruct pop song form like Wire. As it is (and I only know Is This It + that single from the last one - all of which I find pleasant and sometimes quite pretty), the only real comparison I see to any of those is that Casablancas' voice reminds me of Lou Reed. Well, they sort of have the motorik chunk-a eighth-note guitar sound of "Waiting for the Man" and latter-day VU stuff sometimes. They're probably closer to a bunch of 80s new wave guitar bands and 90s indie rock bands but I wouldn't be the best guy to tell you which ones or whether they're being derivative per se.

3xpost See, these guys can tell you which ones.

― sundar subramanian (sundar), Thursday, 6 January 2005 09:05 (twenty-one years ago)

Haha, you're saying that the Strokes would be a better band if they ripped off the VU, Television, Wire, et al even more!

I have a friend who trumpets the Stooges-Strokes similarities, I can't remember which Stooges tracks he was playing when making that comparison, but the ressemblances to "The Modern Age" were obvious to me at the time.

― MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Thursday, 6 January 2005 09:11 (twenty-one years ago)

That's exactly what I'm saying.

― sundar subramanian (sundar), Thursday, 6 January 2005 09:14 (twenty-one years ago)

A band that actually sounded like a modernized take on VU, Television, and Wire would probably be amazing.

― sundar subramanian (sundar), Thursday, 6 January 2005 09:16 (twenty-one years ago)

This thread is so 2002

― **%@, Thursday, 6 January 2005 09:17 (twenty-one years ago)

xpost (No snotty tone intended to the reply.)

― sundar subramanian (sundar), Thursday, 6 January 2005 09:18 (twenty-one years ago)

"Hard to Explain" sounds like Guided by Voices circa Under the Bushes under the Stars. The singer sounds just like Lou Reed, which would seem less accidental if there wasn't that vocal distortion effect in EVERY SINGLE SONG.

― Nanker Phelge, Thursday, 6 January 2005 09:46 (twenty-one years ago)

I've also thought they sound like Smoking Popes "Need You Around".

Ha! They wish...

― CharlieNo4 (Charlie), Thursday, 6 January 2005 09:51 (twenty-one years ago)

Also, "Last Nite" = "Lust for Life" innit.

― CharlieNo4 (Charlie), Thursday, 6 January 2005 09:54 (twenty-one years ago)

Rock seems to work best when greedy kids on the make, ones who don't mind looking like they're on the make, contemptible bastards who'll serve up any tossed-off perfunctory garbage their audience will swallow, inadvertently let their humanness leak out.

― Sven Golly, Thursday, 6 January 2005 09:57 (twenty-one years ago)

They're not as good as Sleeper.

― CC72, Thursday, 6 January 2005 10:05 (twenty-one years ago)

The first time I saw them live, I heard a little Feelies (a friend thought the same thing). I think it had to do with the guitar interplay more than anything.
Christgau has said he hears the Vibrators.

― Jazzbo (jmcgaw), Thursday, 6 January 2005 12:52 (twenty-one years ago)

"Last Nite" = "American Girl" by Tom Petty & the Heartbreakers

― Gregory T (tubesocks), Thursday, 6 January 2005 14:55 (twenty-one years ago)

i always thought The Stooges.

especially songs like 'Loose'.

― Hari Ashurst (Toaster), Thursday, 6 January 2005 15:06 (twenty-one years ago)

x-post

"...that practice all day..."

I don't see how they could EVER practice, since they're constantly in NYC's Lower East Side bars...

― cdwill, Thursday, 6 January 2005 15:17 (twenty-one years ago)

isn't class unspokenly intrinsic to every discussion-thread on indie..?
[x-post..]

would 'Sometimes' every have been written if they'd not heard "Young Americans" too..?
I agree they aren't as good as Sleeper. Now that's a proper backhanded complement.

― peteflynn (piratestyle), Thursday, 6 January 2005 15:43 (twenty-one years ago)

Somewhat nasal lead singer caught up with retro-rock takes on "modern" issues, goofy romanticism, and crazy women who do crazy shit?

http://perso.wanadoo.fr/vivonzeureux/Images/photosouvenir/jonathanrichman4.jpg

Sharp, repetitive riffs, super-fashionable style, post-punk takes on what the Who and Motown did in the mid '60s? And "modern" issues again?

http://tralfaz-archives.com/coverart/J/jam_front.jpg

Also I have never gotten the Lou Reed comparisons because Julian does not mumble-talk-sing. He belts.

― What's this place, Biblevania? (natepatrin), Thursday, 6 January 2005 15:51 (twenty-one years ago)

(special bonus super-secret influence: Thin Lizzy, "Look What the Wind Blew In")

― What's this place, Biblevania? (natepatrin), Thursday, 6 January 2005 15:51 (twenty-one years ago)

who cares if theyre rich? as if jagger and stummer et fucking al werent rich.

― jcasa, Thursday, 6 January 2005 15:54 (twenty-one years ago)

This thread is so 2002

truer words have never been spoken. except in the last couple weeks, for reasons that are mysterious even to me, i've been listening a lot to album #2, which i had dismissed as crap when i first got it, and which i almost immediately banished to a faraway shelf, and i'm now finding all sorts of little new-wavey pop pleasures in there.

ALL pop music by all bands steals, rips off and appropriates other pop music. that's how pop music works. i'd call it appropriation rather than misappropriation. i like "american girl" by tom petty and i like "last nite" by the strokes and i don't see why either song or band should have any problem at all with the other. the strokes should thank petty for the riff and petty should thank the strokes for remembering it.

― fact checking cuz (fcc), Thursday, 6 January 2005 15:56 (twenty-one years ago)

dan is thinking of "yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah" on watusi

― cutty (mcutt), Thursday, 6 January 2005 15:58 (twenty-one years ago)

Haha, when "American Girl" came out wasn't the general reaction "oh man this is such a Byrds knockoff"?

― What's this place, Biblevania? (natepatrin), Thursday, 6 January 2005 15:59 (twenty-one years ago)

there is a wedding present song on Watusi that sounds like the Strokes, but I don't have the album and can't remember the song either

see also Air Miami's "Neely" (except that its better than any Strokes song as far as I can tell)

― artdamages (artdamages), Thursday, 6 January 2005 18:04 (twenty-one years ago)

err, oops, missed cutty's post

― artdamages (artdamages), Thursday, 6 January 2005 18:05 (twenty-one years ago)

i've been listening a lot to album #2, which i had dismissed as crap when i first got it, and which i almost immediately banished to a faraway shelf, and i'm now finding all sorts of little new-wavey pop pleasures in there.

that's weird cuz i've been doing the same thing lately...i really think i like room on fire better now.

― M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Thursday, 6 January 2005 18:06 (twenty-one years ago)

"Last Nite" = "American Girl" by Tom Petty & the Heartbreakers

OTM OTM OTM! I was in a dance club two years ago and they played these two back to back and it was hilarious. Of course, everyone danced to both.

― Adam Bruneau (oliver8bit), Thursday, 6 January 2005 18:10 (twenty-one years ago)

" I was in a dance club two years ago"

― LSD ARISTOCAT (ex machina), Thursday, 6 January 2005 18:13 (twenty-one years ago)

God it's so painful when something that's so close is still so far out of reach.

― Chris Ott (Chris Ott), Thursday, 6 January 2005 18:38 (twenty-one years ago)

"dan is thinking of "yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah" on watusi"

if thats indeed the track it might be the rosetta stone for NYC rawk resurgence of a couple years back. its master is probs now kept in a secret vault in Spin's offices...

― noizem duke (noize duke), Thursday, 6 January 2005 18:47 (twenty-one years ago)

another nomination The Fall's "Glam Racket"?

― artdamages (artdamages), Thursday, 6 January 2005 18:50 (twenty-one years ago)

The Lou Reed and VU comparisons are so fuckin ridiculous! The guy totally sounds like Bono. I avoided the band for a long time and then was shocked when I finally heard them. I really can't see where any of those VU, Television, etc. references are coming from. Not that I'm defending the band's originality or anything. I guess I was just imagining more of a chugging Live 1969 sort of sound and really they're pretty generic alterna-rock with some decent songwriting.

So anyway, yeah: BONO.

― walter kranz (walterkranz), Thursday, 6 January 2005 19:12 (twenty-one years ago)

Bono??!! I think he's closer to Sinatra than Bono.

― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Thursday, 6 January 2005 20:40 (twenty-one years ago)

Yeah, Sinatra. Bono. Take your pick. Sometimes he sounds a little like that guy from Moonshake. Anyway, their whole sound is much more '80s to me than early '70s. But since they're from NY and put some extra distortion on the vocals they get the facile punk/garage comparisons.

― walter kranz (walterkranz), Thursday, 6 January 2005 21:57 (twenty-one years ago)

im sick of rush getting a bad rap too

― chaki in charge (chaki), Thursday, 6 January 2005 22:00 (twenty-one years ago)

I think the Strokes carry a certain Gene Vincent & His Blue Caps vibe about them. Something to do with the swagger, energy and beat. Sorry can't be more specific than that. And yes Sinatra too with Casablancas' schtick. I love ém. They do a sterling job of things.

― Piers, Friday, 7 January 2005 12:33 (twenty-one years ago)

the fact that everyone thinks they sound like someone different kind of says it all really.

― Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 7 January 2005 12:38 (twenty-one years ago)

"Room on Fire"'s quite a bit better than "Is This It", I think, not that anyone wanted to notice

― Andrew Blood Thames (Andrew Thames), Friday, 7 January 2005 12:41 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm not sure which is better per se, but "Room..." is the album I'd choose to play these days. Ronan OTM in relation to poortheatre's original question.

― Piers, Friday, 7 January 2005 12:45 (twenty-one years ago)

Sometimes he sounds a little like that guy from Moonshake

couldn't be any different. strokes guy lazily (reed/early 90s indie) croons (sinatra, ha). monoshake guy growls and hectors (lyndon) with contempt for everything the strokes could give a fuck about (not that this makes one or the other better).

― artdamages (artdamages), Friday, 7 January 2005 16:30 (twenty-one years ago)

This is from the people who make Reason 2.5 (the much-debated music composition software). It's a demo for their new drum sample library:

http://www.propellerheads.se/products/refills/samples/ReasonDrumKits_StrokeyDokey.mp3

― Tantrum The Cat (Tantrum The Cat), Friday, 7 January 2005 16:38 (twenty-one years ago)

the fact that everyone thinks they sound like someone different kind of says it all really.

it's a musical rorschach test!

― Lukas (lukas), Friday, 7 January 2005 19:28 (twenty-one years ago)

I think the Strokes/VU thing all stems from their very first single, "The Modern Age," which was their most VU moment — chugga-chugga locomtive rhythm, total White Light/White Heat vocal tics (the "go go go go go" bit before the chorus). That's pretty much it - that was the first thing people heard, and that same reference has been dropped ever since.
Same thing happened with Interpol/Joy Division — everyone focussed on Paul Banks' (very Curtis-like) voice, but musically and especially production-wise, they sound very little like Joy Division.

My favorite Strokes songs ("Someday," "I Can't Win," the latter being perhaps their best song to date, but buried at the end of side 2 on ROF) remind me more of "Boys Don't Cry"-era Cure more than anything else.

― stuber, Saturday, 8 January 2005 03:40 (twenty-one years ago)

the strokes bore me. whomever they're stealing from, it's obviously the most soporific songs and stylistics of said "influences."

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Saturday, 8 January 2005 03:46 (twenty-one years ago)

Thanks for sharing

― What's this place, Biblevania? (natepatrin), Saturday, 8 January 2005 04:50 (twenty-one years ago)

three months pass...

I thought the idea was--and mind you, I've not heard a lot of Strokes songs--that they were just a mish-mash of styles and sounds of old bands without ever having the quality of those other works. As in: they DO nothing with it, so we criticize the fact that they are derivitive. If they had made two spectacular LPs, it would be less of a thing. No?

― John 2, Monday, 2 May 2005 13:56 (twenty-one years ago)

hah. this was my second post ever [my first has hopefully been long lost in the archives... jesus, i hope no one ever finds that one]. i actually had legitimate questions back then.

― poortheatre (poortheatre), Monday, 2 May 2005 15:46 (twenty-one years ago)

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