Major vs. Minor

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Are songs in a minor key "better than" songs in major keys? Don't they seem more authoritative and honest? Or does this just mean I'm a sad fuck?

Cause, really, "Holocaust" is my favorite Big Star song.

rob mackey (mackey), Friday, 7 January 2005 05:19 (twenty years ago)

it's not the key . it's the key changes

hologram mate, Friday, 7 January 2005 06:20 (twenty years ago)

Izzon the Mizzuthafuckin Mizzoney.

Hurting (Hurting), Friday, 7 January 2005 06:22 (twenty years ago)

Minor Threat was a very good band.

latebloomer (latebloomer), Friday, 7 January 2005 06:28 (twenty years ago)

atonality rulez, everything else drools.

hstencil (hstencil), Friday, 7 January 2005 06:29 (twenty years ago)

Dorian mode, dudes. The *real* saddest of all keys.

(Then again, I had some amazing tritone dissonance going on in a new song I wrote this week.)

Masonic Boom-Boom (kate), Friday, 7 January 2005 10:04 (twenty years ago)

Get Up And Use Me by The Fire Engines is in major and minor at the same time!

Momus (Momus), Friday, 7 January 2005 11:53 (twenty years ago)

It's easy to have a song which is major and minor at the same time. Just use the associated minor key, and you can turn your jolly C Major song into a sad A minor song in an instant!

Unless of course, you start sticking tritones in, and then the associated minor becomes strangely major, mmmm, what joy!

Masonic Boom-Boom (kate), Friday, 7 January 2005 11:57 (twenty years ago)

Charles Ives' "Psalm 67" is an 8-part a capella piece where the four men's voices sing in G-minor while the four women's voices sing in C major (except for the B section, where everyone makes a quick foray into F major).

The Ghost of Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Friday, 7 January 2005 13:55 (twenty years ago)

Doesn't the Jobim song Chega de Saudade ,aka "No More Sadness" go from D minor to D Major? I think I like the minor part better.

Ken L (Ken L), Friday, 7 January 2005 14:02 (twenty years ago)

Man, even *I* have a song which switches from D minor (verses) to D Major (choruses). Oldest trick in the bubblegum book!

Masonic Boom-Boom (kate), Friday, 7 January 2005 14:09 (twenty years ago)

Yeah, that's right. I had some conservatory-trained friends (well they were) that were trying to get into J-Pop and I think this was the first trick they tried.

Ken L (Ken L), Friday, 7 January 2005 14:13 (twenty years ago)

Softly as in a Morning Sunrise - minor 'a' sections to major bridge

Jordan (Jordan), Friday, 7 January 2005 14:19 (twenty years ago)

Yeah, them diabolical tritones trump all!
But I generally prefer minor to major. More melodramatic.
Where does "Symphony In C Minus" fit into all this?

Myonga Von Bontee (Myonga Von Bontee), Friday, 7 January 2005 14:41 (twenty years ago)

What Rolling Stones song was Keith Richards talking about when he said that they were afraid to show it to Ian Stewart because it was in a minor key (or at least started with a minor chord) and Stewart always said minor keys were bullshit?

It's not a quiz; I just forgot.

Rick Massimo (Rick Massimo), Friday, 7 January 2005 15:25 (twenty years ago)

Maqam Kurd is the best!

RS, Friday, 7 January 2005 16:02 (twenty years ago)

Link.

RS, Friday, 7 January 2005 16:03 (twenty years ago)

My friend always complains that too many mainstream rap songs are in minor key, which is why he really liked Rubberband Man.

David Allen (David Allen), Friday, 7 January 2005 16:04 (twenty years ago)

they were afraid to show it to Ian Stewart because it was in a minor key (or at least started with a minor chord) and Stewart always said minor keys were bullshit?
Search: Andre Previn's memoir No Minor Chords
Explanation of title provided upon request.

Ken L (Ken L), Friday, 7 January 2005 16:08 (twenty years ago)

requesting

57 7th (calstars), Friday, 7 January 2005 18:47 (twenty years ago)

Some studio head at MGM, Irving Thalberg or somebody heard a "Stravinskyesque monstrosity" coming out of the Music Department and asked what the hell is that? Some quick-witted wag with good survival instincts said "That's a minor chord." Thalberg's response: "Well, we're not having any of them in our pictures." At which point an actual memo was drafted and sent out to the effect that "It is the official policy of MGM Studios that no minor chords shall appear in our films nor in any blah-blah-blah pertaining thereto." Which memo was then mounted and hung behind a few inches of bulletproof glass bolted to the wall. Which memo, upon destruction of said premises, was removed with some difficulty by some former employee thereof, perhaps Andre P himself and in all possibility it is sitting there now on the mantle over the fireplace in his home where he and Anne-Sophie Mutter gaze upon it while relaxing after a hard day of musicmaking.

Ken L (Ken L), Friday, 7 January 2005 18:57 (twenty years ago)

Wall of the Music Department, that is, at the initiative of the Music Department itself, presumably as a form of barracks humor.

Ken L (Ken L), Friday, 7 January 2005 18:59 (twenty years ago)

Brilliant.

Jordan (Jordan), Friday, 7 January 2005 19:01 (twenty years ago)

I'm know I'm more dependent on A minor than I should be.

(Keyboard players sometimes complain that too many songs by guitarists are in guitar-friendly keys--E first and foremost, but also D and G and A. So I try to stay away from those, and Am is not a bad compromise sometimes.)

The Mad Puffin, Friday, 7 January 2005 19:02 (twenty years ago)

the blues kinda mixes 'em up, right?

LSTD (answer) (sexyDancer), Friday, 7 January 2005 19:07 (twenty years ago)

I was going to filibuster this thread with my thoughts on all the major and minor keys, but I convinced myself only to do 2 of each.

D major: bright, smart but heavy. consisting of brown (D), thick, vibrant red (F#) and pale red (A). As a chord, sounds brown with white edges and cherries(!). Reminds me of school in the fall

F minor: down, but kind of an energetic down, or whiny, depending on where you go afterwards. but much brighter than, say, C minor. Colors are yellow (F), gray/black (Ab) and white (C). As a chord, sounds pale yellow with black edges.

E major: mysterious, alien, foreign, Eastern, but like all the major chords, has calming effects too. Colors are blue-white (E), gray/black (G#) and blue (B). As a chord, sounds pale blue, with fuzzy patches of white, and dark edges.

Bb minor: dark, one of the darkest chords, perhaps *the* darkest chord. heavy, not to be played fast. colors are black (Bb), brown-orange (Db) and yellow (F). As a chord, sounds very dark brown, with black and gray edges.

Dominique (dleone), Friday, 7 January 2005 19:17 (twenty years ago)

Wow.

Jordan (Jordan), Friday, 7 January 2005 19:19 (twenty years ago)

Dominique, I for one am intrigued by that post, and would totally enjoy hearing more chords described in your manner. (But you're right, not necessarily in this thread.)

How do you feel about Amaj7?

The Mad Puffin, Friday, 7 January 2005 19:21 (twenty years ago)

Dominique, did you see the thing in Harper's a month or so back where some dude in the 1700s did an analysis exactly like that??

jaymc (jaymc), Friday, 7 January 2005 19:21 (twenty years ago)

(Actually, it's the most recent [January] issue, and the fellow's name is Christian Friedrich Daniel Schubart.)

jaymc (jaymc), Friday, 7 January 2005 19:24 (twenty years ago)

Slightly apropos, Nabokov made a big deal about his own synesthesia, and noted that the colors his son associated with letters were a blend of his wife's and his own.

The Mad Puffin, Friday, 7 January 2005 19:26 (twenty years ago)

How do you feel about Amaj7?

Maj7 chords are inherently round, no matter what the color is. By the same token, 7 chords (like A7) are inherently angular. So, A maj7 is like a round nebula (or cloud or bubble) of pale red (A), deep orangish (C#) and pale blue (E). As a chord, sounds red with darker edges, purple perhaps, sometimes dark orange, depending on what comes aftetwards.

Dominique, did you see the thing in Harper's a month or so back where some dude in the 1700s did an analysis exactly like that??

I did not. In fact, I've never actually done this myself until now - I was surprised to see that my conception of the colors of notes from chord to chord doesn't change that much!

Dominique (dleone), Friday, 7 January 2005 19:26 (twenty years ago)

D major: bright, smart but heavy
Man, I wish I could play the piano. Could play the classical music.

Ken L (Ken L), Friday, 7 January 2005 19:27 (twenty years ago)

I think Robbie Basho did something similar in the liner notes to one of his records, albeit with heavy new-ageness.

LSTD (answer) (sexyDancer), Friday, 7 January 2005 19:28 (twenty years ago)

I have to say, I agree with you on a lot of 'em. Except for F minor, which I'm not really picking anything up from, but well done (esp. on D major).

jaymc (jaymc), Friday, 7 January 2005 19:29 (twenty years ago)

I can get how Bb minor is really dark. But I'm going to have to reevaluate E major, because I don't see how you get Easternness out of it. (It's so commonplace on the guitar that I may have stopped hearing it; possibly if I go play it on a piano I'll hear it fresh.)

The Mad Puffin, Friday, 7 January 2005 19:35 (twenty years ago)

Mad Puffin:

I think that's part of it - I think of chords in terms of how they appear on piano. Were I guitar player, I might think of them differently. However, I do suspect that the chords I believe I know the least about tend to be darker. Ab, Bb, Db - for my fingers, it is more difficult to play in these keys on piano, so I have written less in them than others like C, F, D, G - perhaps Bb minor is also kind of impractical on guitar. I have something of a fetish for F#, and perhaps I view E as something of a hybrid of F# and C, which in my mind are somehow like yin and yang. This is getting into stuff that even I don't have the patience to elaborate on, but I guess I'm saying I can see why my descriptions would necessarily not always translate.

Dominique (dleone), Friday, 7 January 2005 19:45 (twenty years ago)

I think any major chord that has a black key in it makes it a little darker. (As for those that don't: C major is bright, G major is pretty but not sparkling, and F major is probably the darkest of these three.)

jaymc (jaymc), Friday, 7 January 2005 19:57 (twenty years ago)

perhaps Bb minor is also kind of impractical on guitar

One nice thing about the guitar is that if a moveable chord shape is practicable, then pretty much any position for it is practicable. So Bb minor isn't any more or less difficult than B minor, C minor, A minor, etc. (presuming you're using a barre shape and moving it up and down the neck).

A standard-tuned guitar loves the key of E partly because it's the guitar's lowest note (which makes it easy to use as a drone and gives you a convenient starting and ending note) and partly because the open strings suggest E. But in a loose sense, all keys are equally easy (or, if you prefer, equally hard) assuming you ignore open strings and focus on moveable shapes. This is not so on a keyboard.

The Mad Puffin, Friday, 7 January 2005 20:11 (twenty years ago)

also, of course, you can use a capo. or tune the strings up or down.

which, come to think of it, any electronic keyboardist can do, too. and which, come to think of it, irving berlin, who only knew how to play in one key, also did, way back in the day.

fact checking cuz (fcc), Friday, 7 January 2005 20:15 (twenty years ago)

Minor key...unless you produce something as gorgeous as Kitchens of Distinction's "Drive That Fast".

The #1 Stunnah Ian Moraine (Eastern Mantra), Sunday, 9 January 2005 05:37 (twenty years ago)

xpost:
yeah, I heard they had a special keyboard made for him, with a lever in it for shifting keys. I think Otis Blackwell only played in one key too- he said something like "I play the flats."

Ken L (Ken L), Sunday, 9 January 2005 06:12 (twenty years ago)

http://www.geocities.com/dodgeqdart/star.gif

zappi (joni), Sunday, 9 January 2005 07:00 (twenty years ago)

Another great story from No Minor Chords
A bunch of showbiz types, maybe producers of an upcoming musical, stood around Irving Berlin's piano while he played them his latest composition. It sounded like a chaotic shambling mess. They exchanged pained expressions for a while until finally one of them said: "Irving, could you play 'Blue Skies' for us?" It sounded exactly the same as the previous number, causing them this time to exchange relieved smiles.

Ken L (Ken L), Sunday, 9 January 2005 07:18 (twenty years ago)


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