Yakety-Yak, Let's Talk Sax

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A discussion on this thread "Born to Run" by Bruce Springsteen -- who really enjoys this overproduced crappy glop?, about the use of the saxophone in rock and rock and roll, and some have requested a separate thread, so I take it upon myself to create it, assuming we have something left to talk about. I don't have it in me to sum up the argument as it stands right now on the other thread, but others feel free. Right now I'll just give you two words.

King Curtis.

― Ken L (Ken L), Friday, 7 January 2005 16:44 (twenty years ago)

And, to make sure it's really funky in here

Maceo Parker

― Ken L (Ken L), Friday, 7 January 2005 16:45 (twenty years ago)

As I stated in aforementioned thread, my pick for best sax in a rock-song-that-really-rocks is Tim Curry's "I Do the Rock."

I'm also a sucker for Raphael Ravenscroft's sax work on "Baker Street." He's also got one of my favorite names in all of rock.

― Joseph McCombs (Joseph McCombs), Friday, 7 January 2005 16:52 (twenty years ago)

And then there's the guy with the mullet who played sax for Pink Floyd.

― Jordan (Jordan), Friday, 7 January 2005 16:53 (twenty years ago)

http://www.christian-kunz.net/fotos/pop/klein/saxpinkfloyd.jpg

― Jordan (Jordan), Friday, 7 January 2005 16:53 (twenty years ago)

"Ant Man Bee" (xpost that's not who played wid PF!)

― mark grout (mark grout), Friday, 7 January 2005 16:53 (twenty years ago)

Raphael Ravenscroft
Is he related to John Peel?

― Ken L (Ken L), Friday, 7 January 2005 16:54 (twenty years ago)

Romeo Void. Their sax player not being able to play their VH1 Reunion show thanks to his tinnitis = sad.

― Chris Hill (Chris Hill), Friday, 7 January 2005 16:55 (twenty years ago)

Isn't he, Mark? ISN'T HE? I mean like in the '80s.

― Jordan (Jordan), Friday, 7 January 2005 16:56 (twenty years ago)

Sax is usually a horrible instrument but there are some exceptions. No, not "Baker Street", I'm talking about "Sex Bomb" by Flipper. Other than that the only acceptable example I can think of the Bonzo Dog Band who seem to either play the really tiny sax that sounds really squeaky or the massive one that sounds fat as fuck.

― oorwulliewallpaper, Friday, 7 January 2005 17:21 (twenty years ago)

Short Shorts and Planet Rock by the Royal Teens.

― Triple Ho, Friday, 7 January 2005 17:34 (twenty years ago)

Funhouse by the Stooges is the first thing to spring to my mind. Then good stuff like King Crimson, Clock DVA, X-Ray Spex, Pigbag...

― NickB (NickB), Friday, 7 January 2005 17:42 (twenty years ago)

Yeah, 21st Century Schizoid Man works. Generally I can't think of many examples of the saxophone being used well in rock, but I bet Steely Dan has some great sax parts/solos that I haven't heard. I would also like to hear more horns in metal.

― Jordan (Jordan), Friday, 7 January 2005 17:55 (twenty years ago)

>I would also like to hear more horns in metal.

Check out Ephel Duath's The Painter's Palette.

― pdf (Phil Freeman), Friday, 7 January 2005 18:00 (twenty years ago)

I love the song on The Hold Steady Almost Killed Me where the sax comes in towards the end. So perfect.

― Chuckling at the Tomkat's Marquee (Ben Boyer), Friday, 7 January 2005 18:05 (twenty years ago)

The guy with the mullet is Scott Page.

I will readily admit that I own a copy of Delicate Sound of Thunder, and I think that his sax solo in "Us and Them" is pretty well-constructed. Otherwise, no thanks.

Interestingly, I have no objection to horn ensembles. Cf. my affection for Punch the Clock.

― The Mad Puffin, Friday, 7 January 2005 18:06 (twenty years ago)

Goth sax: The Vanishing, Theatre of Hate*

* I never thought of them that way, but they show up on goth comps

― todd (todd), Friday, 7 January 2005 18:20 (twenty years ago)

Check out Ephel Duath's The Painter's Palette.

The AMG description makes it sounds pretty hot.

― Jordan (Jordan), Friday, 7 January 2005 18:31 (twenty years ago)

Most underrated sax solo: Garth Hudson, "It Makes No Difference," The Last Waltz.

― I Am Curious (George) (Rock Hardy), Friday, 7 January 2005 19:17 (twenty years ago)

Most haunting sax: Maceo on the First Family's "Control (People Go Where We Send You)"

Sax that's annoying but the song just wouldn't be the song without it: Glenn Frey, "The One Who Loves You" (title?)

Sax that's probably inconsequential but I have to love it because I love the song so much: Jefferson Starship, "Miracles"

― Joseph McCombs (Joseph McCombs), Friday, 7 January 2005 19:30 (twenty years ago)

Soprano Sax:
Ralph Carney (Waitresses, Tin Huey, Tom Waits)
Terry Hynde (15-60-75)
Chris Wood (Traffic)
Alan Ravenstein (Pere Ubu)

-VS-

Kenny G.

― dave225 (Dave225), Friday, 7 January 2005 19:36 (twenty years ago)

Van der Graaf Generator's David Jackson is the King of Heavy Metal Sax. The closing wail on "Darkness (11/11)" is awesome beyond measure. And Nik Turner should be recognised for his exceptional contribution to woodwinds in rock, too.

― noodle vague (noodle vague), Friday, 7 January 2005 19:41 (twenty years ago)

Morphine! Morphine! Morphine! Great rock, great sax.

Also, I think you have to distinguish between solo sax and sax as part of a horn section. Totally different dynamics and associations. "Baker Street" vs. "Soul Man" or "Bitch".

― Vornado (Vornado), Friday, 7 January 2005 19:51 (twenty years ago)

'yakkety sax' is the name of the Benny Hill theme.

― tylero (tylero), Friday, 7 January 2005 20:20 (twenty years ago)

XRAY SPEX!!!!!

― m0stly clean (m0stly clean), Saturday, 8 January 2005 02:27 (twenty years ago)

On, the other thread I think it was the Mad Puffin who said on the other thread that he thought sax often didn't work in (hard) rock but was usually OK in soft rock. Some others people mentioned Roxy Music and The Stooges and a few others,. I think it was me that then came up with the idea that most of the examples were either artrock or outside. Finally fact checking cuz came up with a few definitive straight-rock or, as he called it, "rockety-rock" examples, which consisted of a few songs from Exile On Main Street. if not the whole album.

My contention is the problem with a lot of rock sax playing is that it is often just a lazy signifier- when the crowd wants to hear some oldies, whether for sweating to or wedding to- break out the sax! But a few crappy licks may get you by in a bar band, may get you a hit record, may even get you a nice TV band gig, but it doesn't make good music- the sax is harder to play than it looks, apparently.

― Ken L (Ken L), Saturday, 8 January 2005 03:52 (twenty years ago)

My blood type? type O!

― Ken L (Ken L), Saturday, 8 January 2005 03:54 (twenty years ago)

more Clarence Clemons talk here!! --> blazin sax

― Lixi Swank (tracerhand), Saturday, 8 January 2005 03:55 (twenty years ago)

also the guy who played for ian durie and the blockheads is great.

― m0stly clean (m0stly clean), Saturday, 8 January 2005 03:57 (twenty years ago)

BAUHAUS

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Saturday, 8 January 2005 04:01 (twenty years ago)

Thanks for the post, tracerhand! That thread is grebt! That old ILM seems like a lost paradise.

― Ken L (Ken L), Saturday, 8 January 2005 04:47 (twenty years ago)

There is also a few days old thread on this topic in a nearby parallel universe here

― Ken L (Ken L), Saturday, 8 January 2005 05:48 (twenty years ago)

blazin sax

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Saturday, 8 January 2005 08:29 (twenty years ago)

Um, Eisbär, did you see the link about five posts back?

― Ken L (Ken L), Saturday, 8 January 2005 14:01 (twenty years ago)

I think Candy Dulfer's Lily Was Here was brilliant. Whereas I think Kenny G's Songbird was awful. And it's bugging me coz I can't explain why.

― MarkH (MarkH), Saturday, 8 January 2005 14:08 (twenty years ago)

The second artist you mentioned is discussed quite famously here

― Ken L (Ken L), Saturday, 8 January 2005 15:05 (twenty years ago)

ouch! that is really disgraceful!

― MarkH (MarkH), Saturday, 8 January 2005 15:35 (twenty years ago)

The metal mouthpiece screech must be used wisely (but the alternative is a bit too jazzy for my tastes)

― Curt1s St3ph3ns, Sunday, 9 January 2005 04:10 (twenty years ago)

I think I saw Candy Dulfer in the late 80s at the Paradiso in Amsterdam, when she was fronting a band called Funky Stuff. Maybe one of De Subjectivisten can verify this for me.

Thread Retitle: What Does Sax Mean to Me? Human Saxual Response

― Ken L (Ken L), Sunday, 9 January 2005 07:41 (twenty years ago)

I think Candy Dulfer's Lily Was Here was brilliant. Whereas I think Kenny G's Songbird was awful. And it's bugging me coz I can't explain why.
-- MarkH (mark_e_heste...), January 8th, 2005.
both songs are crap but seeing cute curvy Candyy Dulfer's hot legs makes me forget her crap song an watch the vidoe - if candy re;eases a dvd i'll buy it to see her hot legs.

― dandy culfer, Sunday, 9 January 2005 08:07 (twenty years ago)

Human Sexual Reponse were a trip, Ken! I wish you'd named the thread that, too. Do you remember a song they did about Anne Frank? That was such a spooky song, I loved it.

Anyway, I've been discussing the mindblowing soprano sax player from A Certain Ratio here.

― Bimble... (Bimble...), Monday, 10 January 2005 07:55 (twenty years ago)

The metal mouthpiece screech must be used wisely (but the alternative is a bit too jazzy for my tastes)

When I was a teenager I had a metal mouthpiece that I thought was cool but a teacher of mine told me it contained unhealthy elements (probably not lead but something nasty). So yes, use the metal mouthpiece wisely. This thread is depressing me as I realize how shitty the sax in rock really is. I see Ken's point about the "arty" implications as the stuff I mentioned in the other thread (stooges, roxy, faust) definitely falls into that category.

― walter kranz (walterkranz), Monday, 10 January 2005 08:10 (twenty years ago)

Candy Dulfer in the liner notes to some deluxe Prince live release (paraphrased): "Prince said to go to the turnaround of the song, but I thought he meant 'turn around' and show my ass to the crowd! So I did! *giggle*"

― Jordan (Jordan), Monday, 10 January 2005 17:22 (twenty years ago)

Fear - "New York's Alright If You Like Saxophones"

Blurt

― todd (todd), Monday, 10 January 2005 19:41 (twenty years ago)

JON SPENCER BLUES EXPLOSION FT. JOHN ZORN "DITCH"!!!!!!!!!!

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Monday, 10 January 2005 20:46 (twenty years ago)

the sonics!

― cameron, Tuesday, 11 January 2005 10:54 (twenty years ago)

the sonics!

that reminds me, "Mau-Mau" by the Wailers is one of my favourites

― todd (todd), Tuesday, 11 January 2005 16:13 (twenty years ago)

No one has mentioned Jr. Walker and the All-Stars???

As a general rule, I prefer sax when it is used to hold long tones, or at least when it is understated, rather than bluesed up. It takes a lot of taste to use sax well in rock because it's so easy to go overboard.

There's a really gorgeous track on that recent Gary Windo retrospective called "Anglo-American" which walks the line nicely for me. But the E-Street band irritates me to no end in its use of both wanky sax and bang-y piano.

― Hurting (Hurting), Tuesday, 11 January 2005 17:11 (twenty years ago)

No one has mentioned Jr. Walker and the All-Stars???
No. As creator of the thread I had to leave a few things out for the other posters to submit.

― Ken L (Ken L), Tuesday, 11 January 2005 17:15 (twenty years ago)

Ian Underwood
Faust

Best of all:

"Ant Man Bee"

― Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 11 January 2005 17:21 (twenty years ago)

B-b-but Dadaismus, is it really better than the Notorious Trouser Thread's "Pant Man Bee"?

― Ken L (Ken L), Tuesday, 11 January 2005 17:27 (twenty years ago)

I've just noticed sombdoy else mentioned "Ant Man Bee"

― Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 11 January 2005 17:30 (twenty years ago)

As a fan of both music and noise-for-its-own-sake, I gotta say that the sax is a GREAT instrument, able to compete volume-wise, range-wise and timbre-wise with the guitar, without needing any of that messy electricity. I've said before that my absolute favourite honking was performed Steve Mackay (no relation to Andy, who's grebt too) on Fun House, but there's so many other non-cliche ways of using the sax in popular music. Doubling guitar riffs (Sonics, Raiders, King Crimson), swinging funkily (Jr. Walker, Maceo), blatantly funny/sleazy honking (Lee Allen, King Curtis, Gil Bernal), near-electronic droning (Hawkwind, Faust, "The Loco-Motion"), circus-freak theatrics (Peter Brotzmann, "Ant Man Bee") and sheer incompetent (or not) punk noise (Fear, Plasmatics, Contortions.) Basically I just like the instrument a lot (which is not to say all of the time), and however overplayed (& evocative of Maxell adverts), even "Baker Street" still gives me pleasure. (Maybe even Kenny G, given a half-tank of nitrous oxide.)

― Myonga Von Bronchial (Myonga Von Bontee), Tuesday, 11 January 2005 18:46 (twenty years ago)

Actually for a time between the late 70s and early 80s, there was a lot of really really great sax in UK pop music!!!!! There was some stuff in punk like X-Ray Spex "Oh Bondage Up Yours", but there was also a lot of stuff inspired by the likes of the Two-Tone bands, especially in Madness!!!! In fact, some of the sax in early 80s Madness records sound jolly sinister in comparision to the standard "funk" "soul" and "jazz" uses that the instrument seems relegated to these days!!!!

― Old Fart!!! (oldfart_sd), Wednesday, 12 January 2005 10:28 (twenty years ago)

eleven months pass...

...I mean, nitrous oxide for ME, not for Mr. Gorelick (whatta name!) In case that was unclear.

― Myonga Von Bontee (Myonga Von Bontee), Saturday, 24 December 2005 09:22 (nineteen years ago)

nine months pass...

Bauhaus otm

― Curt1s St3ph3ns, Sunday, 22 October 2006 16:24 (eighteen years ago)

two years pass...

RIP Mike Terry.

― Ruudside Picnic (James Redd and the Blecchs), Tuesday, 25 November 2008 14:34 (sixteen years ago)

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