The vast majority of popular rock music aligns the listener with the perspective of the vocalist which is usually a white (heterosexual) middle class male perspective. Discuss

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How can we expect mature music criticism from the likes of say ... PITCHFORKMEDIA.COM, a bastion of white privilidge, if the barely pubescent staff is incapable of acknowledging that their life experience amounts to about one half of a Jimmy Eat World album?

― Hans Blix0r, Friday, 7 January 2005 19:54 (twenty years ago)

Great and important thread title, but you blew it with the bullshit post.

― Haibun (Begs2Differ), Friday, 7 January 2005 19:57 (twenty years ago)

Elton John

― LSTD (answer) (sexyDancer), Friday, 7 January 2005 19:58 (twenty years ago)

"Let's come up with counterexamples for 300 posts"

― LSD ARISTOCAT (ex machina), Friday, 7 January 2005 20:00 (twenty years ago)

"Let's bother"

― Matos W.K. (M Matos), Friday, 7 January 2005 20:03 (twenty years ago)

The vast majority of popular rock music is made by white heterosexual middle class males, discuss.

― Jordan (Jordan), Friday, 7 January 2005 20:03 (twenty years ago)

Popular rock music is not as popular as it used to be. Three or four rock albums in the current Top 20.

― Mark (MarkR), Friday, 7 January 2005 20:06 (twenty years ago)

I'm not sure yet if I agree: which Jimmy Eat World album are we talking about, exactly?

― nabisco (nabisco), Friday, 7 January 2005 20:06 (twenty years ago)

CURRENT TOP TEN:

BLACKS AND WORKING CLASS, SORRY!

― LSTD (answer) (sexyDancer), Friday, 7 January 2005 20:06 (twenty years ago)

in a country that elects W. to office, via a purely oligarchical deception, obv endeavoring towards defining any type of a strict class structure at least isn't going to get anywhere. this ain't england.

well for some of you it is, but i'm in USA. where in fact the irony is that the only people such concepts will register for are exactly (what was haughtily referred to on another thread as) the "bratty hipster massive" this is because some prior education of almost any kind instantly puts you into another world here, more so than $$$. just a fact.

― noizem duke (noize duke), Friday, 7 January 2005 20:07 (twenty years ago)

The managing editor of Pitchfork is over 30!

― jaymc (jaymc), Friday, 7 January 2005 20:07 (twenty years ago)

TUPAC IS BEYOND RACE AND CLASS NOW

― nabisco (nabisco), Friday, 7 January 2005 20:08 (twenty years ago)

The vast majority of music that is reviewed as "important" in magazines and newspapers and web periodicals is made by white heterosexual middle class males, discuss.

― Haibun (Begs2Differ), Friday, 7 January 2005 20:08 (twenty years ago)

IN THE MOTHERSOUL OF THE UNIVERSE ALL SUCH EARTHLY DIVERSIONS ARE DISSOLVED INTO PURE BEING

― nabisco (nabisco), Friday, 7 January 2005 20:09 (twenty years ago)

yeah but I'm not high so I had better bitch about it here and now

― Haibun (Begs2Differ), Friday, 7 January 2005 20:09 (twenty years ago)

popular rock music ... perspective of the vocalist which is ... middle class

damn, are salaries for popular rock stars going down? i'd think they'd be at least upper middle class!

― fact checking cuz (fcc), Friday, 7 January 2005 20:10 (twenty years ago)

Matt totally otm. I'm as guilty of it as anyone.

― Matos W.K. (M Matos), Friday, 7 January 2005 20:10 (twenty years ago)

Great and important thread title, but you blew it with the bullshit post.

What was wrong with it. It made me laugh.

― KeithW (kmw), Friday, 7 January 2005 20:12 (twenty years ago)

i'm wondering what hans blix0r's age/class/race/status are.

― M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Friday, 7 January 2005 20:12 (twenty years ago)

People who have a problem with people being white = white people, usually.

― nabisco (nabisco), Friday, 7 January 2005 20:14 (twenty years ago)

The rest of us are pretty much used to it at this point, and really, when it comes to "bastions of white privilege" I think Pitchfork is pretty low down on e.g. NAACP's list of concerns.

― nabisco (nabisco), Friday, 7 January 2005 20:15 (twenty years ago)

Although there was some limited picketing a couple years back.

― nabisco (nabisco), Friday, 7 January 2005 20:16 (twenty years ago)

(xpost) KRS-One:

http://www.athensmusician.net/media/pretty_white_people.jpg

― The Ghost of Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Friday, 7 January 2005 20:16 (twenty years ago)

Pitchfork's No Child Left behind policies are clearly designed to ruin public schools in order to gain more support for voucher programs.

― M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Friday, 7 January 2005 20:17 (twenty years ago)

ARGH PROTOTRIXIES

― nabisco (nabisco), Friday, 7 January 2005 20:18 (twenty years ago)

What was wrong with it. It made me laugh.

Just about every media outlet is a bastion of white male privilege, and just about every media outlet does the same thing. If people here would get off Pitchfork's dick, the world would be a better and/or more interesting place.

― Haibun (Begs2Differ), Friday, 7 January 2005 20:20 (twenty years ago)

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/09/images/20020924-1_cabinetphoto2002092-515h.jpg

Ryan Schreiber meets with editorial to discuss the new Mastadon album.

― The Ghost of Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Friday, 7 January 2005 20:21 (twenty years ago)

(M@tt, yr post made me laugh.) (GDP OTM)

― Haibun (Begs2Differ), Friday, 7 January 2005 20:21 (twenty years ago)

Im sure that's fair enough. I don't even know who pitchfork are. It just seems polite to at least explain yourself if you must insist on referring to someone else's post as "bullshit".

― KeithW (kmw), Friday, 7 January 2005 20:23 (twenty years ago)

Dan is the almost-invisible black guy in the far far corner me?

― nabisco (nabisco), Friday, 7 January 2005 20:24 (twenty years ago)

"The vast majority of music that is reviewed as "important" in magazines and newspapers and web periodicals is made by white heterosexual middle class males, discuss"

The content of a magazine is only a reflection of the readership, not a barometer measuring the relative "importance" of music cultures. If you don't want a white middle class male perspective, don't read MOJO, the Guardian or Rolling Stone.

― nuclearshithat, Friday, 7 January 2005 20:24 (twenty years ago)

Read The Watchtower.

― nabisco (nabisco), Friday, 7 January 2005 20:25 (twenty years ago)

don't lecture me about all the nonexistent U.S. mainstream media that actually takes a multicultural world and its music into account, dude, your name is "nuclearshithat"

― Haibun (Begs2Differ), Friday, 7 January 2005 20:27 (twenty years ago)

Against all expectations this is one of the greatest threads I've read this week.

― The Ghost of Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Friday, 7 January 2005 20:29 (twenty years ago)

Sorry, you've lost me, "dude" (I love this old-fangled yankee jargon). Are you saying you cannot find any media that doesn't reflect a White, Male, Middle Class perspective, 'cos you live in the States?

― nuclearshithat, Friday, 7 January 2005 20:30 (twenty years ago)

Dan is the almost-invisible black guy in the far far corner me?

They don't make you sit in the window?

― The Ghost of Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Friday, 7 January 2005 20:30 (twenty years ago)

i know the chick on the right. she likes indie rockers with banks. sing it, radiohead.

― logged out, Friday, 7 January 2005 20:33 (twenty years ago)

Actually I think Pitchfork has possibly employed more non-white people than female people.

― nabisco (nabisco), Friday, 7 January 2005 20:34 (twenty years ago)

Wait, no, that's so completely not true.

― nabisco (nabisco), Friday, 7 January 2005 20:35 (twenty years ago)

hey shithat here's some old-fashioned yankee jargon for you: [deleted by right-thinking conscience]

― Haibun (Begs2Differ), Friday, 7 January 2005 20:35 (twenty years ago)

(xpost) I know there's that Dominique chick.

― The Ghost of Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Friday, 7 January 2005 20:36 (twenty years ago)

The only part of the thread title that can fit in the blue part of my window, next to the minimize, shrink, close window thingies is the part that says "The vast majority of popular rock music aligns the listener with the perspective of the vocalist"

That sounds better to me

― David Allen (David Allen), Friday, 7 January 2005 20:38 (twenty years ago)

"http://www.athensmusician.net/media/pretty_white_people.jpg"

haha OMG

― vahid (vahid), Friday, 7 January 2005 20:39 (twenty years ago)

All the women now (C4therine L3wis, Kr!st3n S4ge R0ckermann) are in editorial-executive positions.

― nabisco (nabisco), Friday, 7 January 2005 20:40 (twenty years ago)

How's that for a glass ceiling?

― jaymc (jaymc), Friday, 7 January 2005 20:43 (twenty years ago)

Wait, what other non-white people have written for Pitchfork?

― jaymc (jaymc), Friday, 7 January 2005 20:43 (twenty years ago)

Put 'em on the glass ceiling

― Haibun (Begs2Differ), Friday, 7 January 2005 20:43 (twenty years ago)

Sorry

― Haibun (Begs2Differ), Friday, 7 January 2005 20:44 (twenty years ago)

OMG HAIBUN

― The Ghost of Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Friday, 7 January 2005 20:44 (twenty years ago)

Uh, what is "mature music criticism" even supposed to mean? Geriatrocritocracy?

― Zack Richardson (teenagequiet), Friday, 7 January 2005 20:45 (twenty years ago)

Skipping 51 messages at this point... Click here if you want to load them all.

Read The Watchtower.

nabisco, even the fucking Jehovah's Witnesses are based in Brooklyn Heights.

― hstencil (hstencil), Friday, 7 January 2005 22:33 (twenty years ago)

If Hans is talking about the truly awful plethora of "I feel" type songs by whities on MTV Hits these days, then I understand. How can any self-resecting teenager listen to this shit without embarassment?

― LSTD (answer) (sexyDancer), Friday, 7 January 2005 22:35 (twenty years ago)

like anything teenagers have listened to over the course of recorded history isn't embarassing!

― hstencil (hstencil), Friday, 7 January 2005 22:35 (twenty years ago)

though i'm still not ashamed of loving the first danzig record.

― hstencil (hstencil), Friday, 7 January 2005 22:36 (twenty years ago)

Led Zeppelin isn't so bad

― LSTD (answer) (sexyDancer), Friday, 7 January 2005 22:37 (twenty years ago)

I think it's just that for once not taking the thread seriously has been more enjoyable for everyone than the alternative.

I have no specific good reason for saying this but my guess is that Pitchfork does employ or has employed Jewish writers, surely.

― nabisco (nabisco), Friday, 7 January 2005 22:38 (twenty years ago)

i like that story where jagger summoned watts by phone or something to his hotel room, addressing him as "my drummer." when jagger opened the door watts clocked him, and he fell into a room service cart, which headed towards a balcony. its like keith richards favorite story to tell...

― noizem duke (noize duke), Friday, 7 January 2005 22:39 (twenty years ago)

Also I always find counting who's-Jewish beans way creepier than any equivalent quality, I suppose since you mostly only see non-Jewish people caring about this when they're caring for creepy reasons.

― nabisco (nabisco), Friday, 7 January 2005 22:40 (twenty years ago)

you obv don't value the jewish opinion, nabisco!

― cutty (mcutt), Friday, 7 January 2005 22:41 (twenty years ago)

I didn't get into Zep until college, how lame is that?

― hstencil (hstencil), Friday, 7 January 2005 22:41 (twenty years ago)

me too. too many jocks in hi skool

― LSTD (answer) (sexyDancer), Friday, 7 January 2005 22:44 (twenty years ago)

same reason i hated the dead until later.

― hstencil (hstencil), Friday, 7 January 2005 22:46 (twenty years ago)

into and back out of, all before hi skool for me.
and then back into, like last week.

― noizem duke (noize duke), Friday, 7 January 2005 22:47 (twenty years ago)

me three on the Zep.

(altho I am embarassed to say that I never paid attention to them until someone played Misty Mountain Hop while I was on mushrooms and my brain exploded)

― Shakey Mo Collier, Friday, 7 January 2005 22:47 (twenty years ago)

oh my god I was a jock who liked Led Zeppelin in high school

― Haibun (Begs2Differ), Friday, 7 January 2005 22:49 (twenty years ago)

don't worry dude.

― hstencil (hstencil), Friday, 7 January 2005 22:49 (twenty years ago)

I was into Led Zepplin, Pink Floyd and Rush by the time I was 6.

― The Ghost of Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Friday, 7 January 2005 22:50 (twenty years ago)

I didn't know anyone (which includes me) who liked Led Zeppelin until like two or three years ago.

― jaymc (jaymc), Friday, 7 January 2005 22:50 (twenty years ago)

A year or two after college a friend came over and said "Cool, you still have all your Led Zeppelin records!" I didn't tell him I had bought them the year before.

My defense is similar to LSTD's- this was the mid 80s. Every other quote in my highschool yearbook was from Led Zeppelin. (This was the beginning of the 80s).

― Ken L (Ken L), Friday, 7 January 2005 22:51 (twenty years ago)

While we're making these admissions, can I just tell you all that I was convinced to give Rush a chance in early high school by the drum line in the marching band? (I played the trumpet.)

I feel a lot better now.

― martin m. (mushrush), Friday, 7 January 2005 22:55 (twenty years ago)

"How can we expect mature music criticism from the likes of say ... PITCHFORKMEDIA.COM, a bastion of white privilidge, if the barely pubescent staff is incapable of acknowledging that their life experience amounts to about one half of a Jimmy Eat World album?"

It beats yours, namely 4'33"

Who said music criticism should be mature?

― stevie nixed (stevie nixed), Friday, 7 January 2005 23:00 (twenty years ago)

"J0e T4ngari" is 68 years old.

― nabisco (nabisco), Friday, 7 January 2005 23:06 (twenty years ago)

"Nabisco is the former drummer for rock band Gay Dad"

― Matos W.K. (M Matos), Friday, 7 January 2005 23:07 (twenty years ago)

http://www.ffeu.org/images/la/la8.jpg
discuss

― miccio (miccio), Friday, 7 January 2005 23:13 (twenty years ago)

He reads the definition of the word "ethnic," points to his right temple, and then walks off?

― nabisco (nabisco), Friday, 7 January 2005 23:14 (twenty years ago)

there's also a picture of Brett Ratner at the podium, but I dunno how many people saw Toback's Black & White

― miccio (miccio), Friday, 7 January 2005 23:16 (twenty years ago)

Led Zeppelin sang songs about hobbits! I think that's entirely within the realm of embarrassing teenage music.

― deej., Friday, 7 January 2005 23:17 (twenty years ago)

man he really does look like David Spade's chubby younger brother

― roit gar!, Friday, 7 January 2005 23:18 (twenty years ago)

On Thursday, November 21, 2002, The Foundation held its inaugural Los Angeles benefit reception at the home of Brett Ratner, director of the film Red Dragon. The Foundation presented its “Joseph Papp Racial Harmony Awards” to Andre Harrell, President of NuAmerica Music, and Jordan Schur, President of Geffen Records, who have championed the cause of Black/Jewish relations. The Foundation’s “Corporate Leadership Award” was given to MCS Entertainment & Pseudo Entertainment, which was accepted by its CEO, Matthew Schilowitz.

Fred Durst, the lead singer of Limp Bizkit, and Foundation Secretary Russell Simmons presented the awards. Many celebrities participated in and supported The Foundation’s benefit, including Norman Lear, Kenneth "Babyface" Edmonds, Tori Spelling, J.J. Abrams, Mark McGrath of Sugar Ray, Rivers Cuomo of Weezer, Edward Norton, Bobby and Mark Shriver, Heavy D., Eriq La Salle, Alicia Silverstone, Steve Rifkin, Rick Rubin and Russell Simmons.

― miccio (miccio), Friday, 7 January 2005 23:20 (twenty years ago)

They should have recorded a charity single!

― miccio (miccio), Friday, 7 January 2005 23:21 (twenty years ago)

Rivers awarded for the classic harmony-building "what's with these homies dissin my girl" verse?

― nabisco (nabisco), Friday, 7 January 2005 23:22 (twenty years ago)

Led Zep songs with the phrase "I feel":
WALTER'S WALK
Ooh...know I feel so strange looking out the door
Oooh...tryin hard to change but can’t let go Oooh...
I CAN'T QUIT YOU, BABE
Oh, when I feel you near me little girl
I know you are my one desire.
TEA FOR ONE
Oh twenty-four hours, baby sometimes seem to slip into days
A minute seems like a lifetime, baby when I feel this way

― LSTD (answer) (sexyDancer), Friday, 7 January 2005 23:22 (twenty years ago)

that list is truly our culture's bloomsbury

― g--ff (gcannon), Friday, 7 January 2005 23:34 (twenty years ago)

except ed norton. that guy's a fucking twat.

― g--ff (gcannon), Friday, 7 January 2005 23:35 (twenty years ago)

How could they not name the award for black/jew relations in entertainment after Sammy Davis Jr.??? HOW???

― miccio (miccio), Friday, 7 January 2005 23:35 (twenty years ago)

"I, Fred Durst, am proud to present this year's Candyman to..."

― miccio (miccio), Friday, 7 January 2005 23:36 (twenty years ago)

Wait, no, Rivers awarded for Caucasian / Half-Japanese Girl relations!

― nabisco (nabisco), Friday, 7 January 2005 23:36 (twenty years ago)

Rivers walks to the podium to an orchestral rendition of "El Scorcho"

― miccio (miccio), Friday, 7 January 2005 23:38 (twenty years ago)

Nothing like the deep questions posed by the newly radicalized.

― shookout (shookout), Saturday, 8 January 2005 00:42 (twenty years ago)

ALL ROCK'N'ROLL IS HOMOSEXUAL

― Ben Dot (1977), Saturday, 8 January 2005 01:06 (twenty years ago)

finally some reason

― LSTD (answer) (sexyDancer), Saturday, 8 January 2005 08:19 (twenty years ago)

Nothing like the deep questions posed by the newly radicalized.

amen. ah, the good ol' days of undergrad english literary theory classes ...

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Saturday, 8 January 2005 08:23 (twenty years ago)

Fall songs with the phrase "I feel"

ARMS CONTROL POSEUR
I even stoop to an icy vodka
As I feel the inevitable
battle creep nearer and nearer
Chip! Chip!
GLAM RACKET/STAR
I feel nothing
Cause it's nothing you make me feel
Go shine on someone else
Cause your act has lost all its appeal
FRIGHTENED
I feel trapped by mutual affection
And I don't know how to use freedom
I spend hours looking sideways
to the time when I was sixteen
PAINTWORK
And sometimes I feel like saying
This is bloody Newark
Or some drive-in slap place
In Breda and in Cologne
I FEEL VOXISH
I feel voxish, stack-heeled Hari Krish
those disgusting vegan youth punks
Caught my life mould, give me silenced lectures
FIT AND WORKING AGAIN
And I feel like Alan Minter
I just ate eight sheets of blotting paper
And I chucked out the Alka Seltzer
$500 BOTTLE OF WINE
And I feel real guilty
The babies are squealing
Starving and pleading all the time
A 500 dollar bottle of wine
MARQUIS CHA CHA
After a few steins I feel better
But that broken down fan
They never fix it, them dumb Latins
CAB IT UP
But you know the best, Dan
I dunno where I am
I feel like crying
THERE’S AGHOST IN MY HOUSE
Down in my tea cup
I see your face looking up
Sitting in my easy chair
I feel your fingers running through my hair
ARID AL’S DREAM
I feel it shouting at him from the flotarium
And the cauldron or rectum of its love, baby

― LSTD (answer) (sexyDancer), Saturday, 8 January 2005 19:53 (twenty years ago)

say a prayer for the

hip priest

― anhedonic, Saturday, 8 January 2005 20:03 (twenty years ago)

one year passes...

this thread = comedy gold

― timmy tannin (pompous), Thursday, 17 August 2006 06:22 (nineteen years ago)

Music is music. Music doesn't need a "perspective". Music is nothing else than music and has no other meaning than music in itself for music's sake. Fuck lyrics.

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Thursday, 17 August 2006 21:28 (nineteen years ago)

You were so OTM until that final sentence, Geir.

― Scourage (Haberdager), Thursday, 17 August 2006 21:32 (nineteen years ago)

although sometimes context is useful.

― Scourage (Haberdager), Thursday, 17 August 2006 21:32 (nineteen years ago)

this thread has got to constitute the biggest WHO GIVES A SHIT moment evah

― a name means a lot just by itself (lfam), Thursday, 17 August 2006 21:39 (nineteen years ago)

"great and important thread title"

you know it's not worth your time if someone calls it important

― a name means a lot just by itself (lfam), Thursday, 17 August 2006 21:39 (nineteen years ago)

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