is what andre 3000, lauryn hill, cee-lo et al do on their most recent albums still hip hop?

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it seems they still regard it as hip hop. i dont know if thats an anti-divide and conquer or simple hippie dippe attitude on their behalf or if they genuinely believe its still hip hop (i mean, how is hey ya still a hip hop song?) but im not so sure. is the problem that we think of hip hop music and rap music as the same thing? should albums and songs that sound like funk, soul or R&B records still pass for 'hip hop'? i could never call the love below a hip hop record, in the same way i couldnt call a cameo or rick james album a hip hop record. is this genre facism?!

― theghost ofwyclef, Sunday, 9 January 2005 12:30 (twenty years ago)

When they're rapping, I don't think anyone would question the Hip-Hopness. When they're singing, it's still born from Hip-Hop, but they're obviously tackling something else as well. Soul music, R&B, black pop, whatever. I think "genre fascism" is a little too extreme a description of having certain ideas about genres and what they mean.

― JoB (JoB), Sunday, 9 January 2005 14:01 (twenty years ago)

"The Love Below" isn't a classical HipHop-record. He takes Soul, R&B, Funk and a bit Rock together: Voila, Pop Music.

― Böllers, Sunday, 9 January 2005 15:11 (twenty years ago)

Classical Hip Hop sucks though. It's just the same old tired Vivaldi samples, and the verb structure of Latin makes for clunky and uninspiring flows.

― noodle vague (noodle vague), Sunday, 9 January 2005 15:15 (twenty years ago)

if the love below was made by someone who wasnt previously and is still occasionally a rapper, i doubt anyone would call it a hip hop record.

― ppp, Sunday, 9 January 2005 15:32 (twenty years ago)

All Hip Hop should sound exactly like Grandmaster Flash in order to avoid confusion.

― noodle vague (noodle vague), Sunday, 9 January 2005 15:34 (twenty years ago)

music=soul
vocals=rap

― stevie nixed (stevie nixed), Sunday, 9 January 2005 15:39 (twenty years ago)

(in re to oukast that is)

― stevie nixed (stevie nixed), Sunday, 9 January 2005 15:39 (twenty years ago)

apart from 1 or 2 tracks, what rap vocals are there on the love below though?

"All Hip Hop should sound exactly like Grandmaster Flash in order to avoid confusion."

you probably thought lauryn hill unplugged was hip hop too right?

― ppp, Sunday, 9 January 2005 16:01 (twenty years ago)

I don't think rap has to be literally present for something to qualify as hip-hop. To me, hip-hop "production" is most important for something to be seen as hip-hop.

― jaymc (jaymc), Sunday, 9 January 2005 17:47 (twenty years ago)

Also, hip-hop = culture, blah blah blah.

― jaymc (jaymc), Sunday, 9 January 2005 17:48 (twenty years ago)

why arent people calling the natasha bedingfield song these words a hip hop song then? or mary j blige's family affair? the list could go on. i mean, hip hop production is one thing, but what makes the love below's production any more hip hop then say, prince's 1999 album? unless, by production, you mean the music contained within.

― ppp, Sunday, 9 January 2005 17:59 (twenty years ago)

Because there isn't this objectively existing thing called "Hip Hop" which we can measure the vital statistics of a piece of music against to see whether it fits or not. Genre labels are useful as far as they communicate something meaningful between two people. Whether some Priests want to excommunicate certain acts for heresy against Hip Hop, the fact is that Lauryn and OutKast come from a Hip Hop background and the vast majority of people will still comfortably refer to them as such without getting into a semantic fist fight. Why shouldn't they be referred to as Hip Hop? Is it going to lead to some horrible impurity contaminating the music as a whole and end up with Lil' Jon recording a 3 disc concept album of Bouzouki-core?

― noodle vague (noodle vague), Sunday, 9 January 2005 18:29 (twenty years ago)

in that case, i nominate all jungle and drum n bass to be part of the hip hop canon too as its made from breakbeats.

― ppp, Sunday, 9 January 2005 18:38 (twenty years ago)

I think there's a case for that, depending on what you're using the labels for. There's lots of sub-genres of Rock that are also loosely referred to as just plain Rock depending on the circumstances. If you wanted to divide popular music into only 3 or 4 categories (which you might, for some purposes), then nearly all break-based music would probably go under Hip Hop, yeah?

― noodle vague (noodle vague), Sunday, 9 January 2005 18:42 (twenty years ago)

but my point is that songs like closet freak, hey ya, or umi says are not hip hop! i mean, if closet freak was made by bilal, hey ya was recorded by dangelo, or umi says was made by r kelly (god forbid) nobody would call them hip hop. the fact that just because the artists are known for making hip hop music, the songs somehow become hip hop as well seems a bit flimsy to me. im not trying to place them in stringent narrow categorical boxes, in fact, im giving them a compliment by saying theyre working in more genres than only hip hop.

― ppp, Sunday, 9 January 2005 18:53 (twenty years ago)

I don't disagree with you then, ppp, but I don't think it's very important. If I was describing The Love Below to somebody then I'd want to tell them about all of the non Hip Hop elements to it. But if I was telling them where to find it in their local record store, I'd still have to point them to the Hip Hop section.

― noodle vague (noodle vague), Sunday, 9 January 2005 18:59 (twenty years ago)

hmmmmmm, well im not saying they should be in the soul or R&B section in the record shop, im not interested in what industry people want to tag it as. im more intersted in perhaps adjusting the attitude of the everyday person who seems to lump what these artists do all in the hip hop bin, regardless of the actual content, sanctimonious as that might sound.

― ppp, Sunday, 9 January 2005 19:11 (twenty years ago)

OK, how would you define hip-hop?

― Mike Salmo (salmo), Monday, 10 January 2005 05:42 (twenty years ago)

1. poppin' and lockin'.
2. djin' and mcin'.
3. graffiti
4. uh whatever the 4th thing is.

― hstencil (hstencil), Monday, 10 January 2005 05:43 (twenty years ago)

4. mudbutt

― David R. (popshots75`), Monday, 10 January 2005 05:56 (twenty years ago)

ppp r kelly gets called hip-hop all the time.

― deej., Monday, 10 January 2005 06:01 (twenty years ago)

The four pillars of hip-hop are emceeing, breakdancing, graffiti and violently shoving people at concerts.--Dan Perry

― RS LaRue (rockist_scientist), Monday, 10 January 2005 13:01 (twenty years ago)

exactly. i'd like to see anyone getting shoved violently at an andre3000 show.

― ppp, Monday, 10 January 2005 13:04 (twenty years ago)

Anyone besides Andre 3000, at least.

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Monday, 10 January 2005 15:58 (twenty years ago)

the four elements of hip-hop are: 1. getting sonned on AOL 2. grown men fiending over plastic toys 3. garish permission walls 4. $250- nike dunks on ebay

― vahid (vahid), Monday, 10 January 2005 18:35 (twenty years ago)

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