Lil Jon and minstrelsy

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I've heard this a lot, what do ppl think.
http://bv.channel.aol.com/entmain/music/critno10604/20050112

deej., Wednesday, 12 January 2005 19:39 (twenty years ago)

he doesn't actually bother to explain what separates lil jon from anybody else

miccio (miccio), Wednesday, 12 January 2005 19:42 (twenty years ago)

It doesn't really explain much of anything.

Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 12 January 2005 19:45 (twenty years ago)

Yeah, he virtually doesn't bother to say anything about Lil Jon at all.

Rick Massimo (Rick Massimo), Wednesday, 12 January 2005 19:46 (twenty years ago)

ditto. It reads like a historical excercise - the Li'l Jon ref seems like window dressing.

Shakey Mo Collier, Wednesday, 12 January 2005 19:47 (twenty years ago)

Interesting article:

What Williams and Walker understood then and what so many black performers have come to realize since is that white mainstream interest in blackness is often predicated on their belief that what they are consuming is "authentic,"

The main question I have is why is this? I guess I need to read more post-colonial stuff, but I'm thinking psychoanalysis would help too.

Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Wednesday, 12 January 2005 19:50 (twenty years ago)

Well, the article is perhaps not the best example of the argument that I've seen but it was the one that prompted the question. I guess the standard argument I've heard is that Lil Jon's character fits into the narrative of zip coon ... I'm not really sure I follow the notion that white america sees lil jon as a picture of authentic blackness.

deej., Wednesday, 12 January 2005 20:03 (twenty years ago)

re: white people desiring "authenticity" from black entertainers - I'm fairly confident a lot of this stems from the white community realizing that the great mediator between them and black people (ie, the insitution of slavery) set up all sorts of weird and ugly social dynamics that would predicate black people behaving in a specific, "unnatural" way when white people were around. And so white people would be curious about what black people were "really" like, what they did when they were among their "own", etc. Add some "forbidden fruit" psychology and the tantalizing appeal of the unknown and there ya go...

Shakey Mo Collier, Wednesday, 12 January 2005 20:07 (twenty years ago)

more white people look at Tupac as "authentic" than Lil Jon

miccio (miccio), Wednesday, 12 January 2005 20:23 (twenty years ago)

Ozzy vs. Bret Michaels

miccio (miccio), Wednesday, 12 January 2005 20:23 (twenty years ago)

The real Williams often lamented that he couldn't give his largely white audiences a more complex image of his characters -- "The pathos as well as the fun."

God, minstrel performers were pretentious.

David Allen (David Allen), Wednesday, 12 January 2005 20:38 (twenty years ago)

Anybody see jazz titan Charles Gayle during his "Streets the Clown" phase?

LSTD (answer) (sexyDancer), Wednesday, 12 January 2005 20:52 (twenty years ago)

The real Williams often lamented that he couldn't give his largely white audiences a more complex image of his characters -- "The pathos as well as the fun."

Now, if Lil Jon felt the same way, that there was so much more he wanted to say but that the racial dynamics of the marketplace prevented him from doing so, then MAYBE you could make a case for minstrelsy. But he's apparently just a guy cooking up some cool pop tunes and living like a pop star, so I don't get the problem. And I don't know why I'm trying to make this writer's case for him.

re: white people desiring "authenticity" from black entertainers - I'm fairly confident a lot of this stems from the white community realizing that the great mediator between them and black people (ie, the insitution of slavery) set up all sorts of weird and ugly social dynamics that would predicate black people behaving in a specific, "unnatural" way when white people were around. And so white people would be curious about what black people were "really" like, what they did when they were among their "own", etc. Add some "forbidden fruit" psychology and the tantalizing appeal of the unknown and there ya go...
-- Shakey Mo Collier (audiobo...), January 12th, 2005.

That's really interesting. Could part of it also have to do with white guilt, and a belief that if black people were "themselves" around you, then they thought you were OK?

Rick Massimo (Rick Massimo), Wednesday, 12 January 2005 21:03 (twenty years ago)

authentic

It's a good point, but ... nobody thinks LL Cool J is "authentic" when he rhymes about being tough, and he's still popular.

Also, "stop fucking with me" (dunno if that's the right title) from Crunk Juice gives pathos.

Lukas (lukas), Wednesday, 12 January 2005 21:11 (twenty years ago)


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