Bad guitarists that are really good

BOB STINSON from ye olde Replacements...there was a guitar hero.

Kid Congo Powers from the Cramps, the Gun Club, the Bad Seeds, Congo Norvell, Kid & Khan.

Marlene Marder from Liliput.

Then there are people who actually _do_ have a lot of technique but generally stick to playing in non-technical-ability-oriented ways: Craig Flanagin and Andy Ex come to mind.

Calling Andy Gill's stylings "unaccomplished", though, takes a lot away from what he was able to accomplish. Much like those folks I just mentioned, he might not have been the most skilled guitar player (AKA wanker - playing lots of notes at varying speeds), but what he coaxed from his guitar was quite an accomplishment. Playing noise is just as difficult to master (master = make it sound good) as playing chords.

Ira Kaplan is a good player. He doesn't always exploit that skill on record, but seeing him live convinced me that he has the ability to play pretty much intuitively, in quite remarkable ways.

Wareham is a tough call, as he tends not to stray from his own style enough to get a clear idea of what else he could or could not do. His playing is not at all "hard" -- any moderately skilled guitar player could sit down and improv a Wareham-y solo -- but it has an element of "feel" that's pretty hard to replicate. I'm tempted to give him plenty of credit, again based on live recordings displaying his ability to single-handedly cover a lot of stuff that's overdubbed on the (G500) albums themselves. Luna-wise, I dunno: those guys keep it deliberately, tiresomely simple.

Another one is Hound Dog Taylor. As far as Ira Kaplan, for god sakes -- he's probably good enough to play in Steely Dan!

The thing is that when it comes to songwriting, anyway, the line between "good" and "effective" is a bit more blurry. But even throwing away that argument -- and despite the fact that I have no love whatsoever for Nirvana -- I'd submit that, within his broadly- defined genre, Cobain's songs had a surprising amount of melodic and harmonic sophistication to them. Not that he's up against very stiff competition, but I can't think of anyone else in his vicinity who would bother with anything even as mildly complex as the end of "Lithium's" chorus. He at least knew how to work off of a key, which, grunge-wise, is practically cold fusion.

I can't think of anyone else in his vicinity who would bother with anything even as mildly complex as the end of "Lithium's" chorus. He at least knew how to work off of a key, which, grunge-wise, is practically cold fusion.

I agree completely w/this. I nominate Dave Brock from Hawkwind during thee early 1970's for this thread. His playing was very crude, w/much use of e-drone chord as used in stooges' "I wanna be yr dog", nevertheless, what he did on ES "Doremi" & "Space Ritual" was brutal & V effective. Big monster riffs like the monolith in "2001", or like out-of-control steamroller rolling down a steep hill. Yum.

Even by the non-technical, minimalistic standards of this question, I think a "good guitarist" should mean something more than an effective accompanist, someone who can play what suits the song. I think a lot of the guitarists mentioned so far are quite limited in their range and repertoire, simple and non-technical or not, which hampers their ability to "make the instrument speak." Lifeson kicks most of their asses.

I'm tempted to nominate Alex Lifeson for this thread, actually. Especially when he was getting all sorts of mileage out of 2 suspended chords and his chorus pedal, except that that's when Rush sucked.

I prefer his playing on Waiting for A Miracle.

How far are you willing to take this "gets radio play = good guitar playing" thesis?

Once upon a time Cobain was among those whom I tried to emulate to become *more* adventurous than I was, in terms of chord structures and melodies. It worked, up to a point, for a while; but eventually I gave it up and went back to the same old stuff.

Cobain only 'played the melody' on the two big hits - right?

That's kinda what I'm getting at. Good guitar solos don't get songs on the radio, hooks do, and those solos are hooks. I like hearing Nirvana on the radio + without hooks songs don't get on the radio = I don't mind the solos. Others for this thread: Thurston Moore, Ted Falconi from Flipper, the dude from Fang.

The fact that Thurston Moore and Jimi Hendrix have even been mentioned is sort of why I haven't contributed very much in a positive way to this thread. The idea that they are not technically accomplished musicians boggles my mind. I have trouble separating "good technique" from "good playing."

Colin Newman is damn fine too.

As for Barney/Bernard/Albrecht/Sumner well, he started off as being pretty promising but as New Order acquired more keyboards and Hooky started to play more bass parts in the Guitar register, the lazier B got with his playing.
So much so until he could barely make it through simple tunes like Ceremony & Dreams Never End without fucking it up.
More recently his attraction to the guitar has returned but say around 1985 or so, my Granny pished could have played better.

I'm glad that Google brought you to our forum, but I don't think you understood the question. Also, you need to get out more. None of the guitarists mentioned in this thread are very obscure.

For fucks sake, pick somebody you like.

In terms of Cobain: Don't much know/care about the solos, but that man made some of the most awesomest chord progressions ever.

A: Robert Smith, Joey Santiago, Kurt Cobain and Mark Hollis.

*takes a bow*

Anyone with 2 months of guita lessons can play anything he's played and it matter not a bit.

Neil Young has quite a varied array of skills. he's just demented in how he uses them.

Pil Manzanara has turned deficets into pluses in a major way. He has no vibrato (so he became a master of tremelo bar), has an incredibly stiff way with a scale (which he's turned into an inimitable style) and makes up for lack of voicing skills with his superb use of electronics.

David Sylvian - especially in his loopsy period '85-'86 (Words with the Shaman, Gone to Earth), but I also love his newer noisy guitar from 'Blemish' onwards. he's really good at nicking other inspirational players' styles (e.g. Holger Czukay, David Torn) and advancing on them. also, he's a celestial overdubber (see 'Praise' off Dead Bees on a Cake). strangely, no one ever sings his praises as a guitarist. (but then, I'm in the minority group who don't go totally crazy about his vocal style.)
Holger Czukay.
Mark Hollis.
the Stones' guitar pair.
Massimo Zamboni (formerly of C.S.I.) - he definitely found "the" sound..
I also love Stereolab's Tim Gane's rhythm guitar.

I'm probably wrong to include him here because of his understated style, but as a rhythm guitar player, I cannot think of anyone better than Nile Rodgers of Chic.

A bit of a digression, but does Cuomo actually play that solo? I thought it was the other dude (Brain Bell?) who played it?

The man was so adept at matching guitar tones with Wolf's songs, and his vibrato was nonpareil.

And David Gilmour, while not necessarily my cuppa tea, has fantastic technique, and a great sense of tone and feel.

you've got to be kidding me, tony iommi is a great guitar player. those speedy trills he does are not that easy to pull off w/ accuracy. your above-average metal guitarist probably wouldn't have too much of a problem playing them decently, but w/ regards to the rest of the people mentioned here - cobain, the edge, ira kaplan - he crushes them

I thought Ira was famous for marring Yo La shows by getting a little too into his guitar solos.

― bnw

oh man, the one time i saw them was kinda torture because of this

Guitar solos are rockist.

JAMC bros. Reid

bruce russell.

I thought Ira was famous for marring Yo La shows by getting a little too into his guitar solos.

― bnw

oh man, the one time i saw them was kinda torture incredible because of this

Fixed to reflect my own experiences.

It can go either way with him.

oo-er!

xp otm - it really can. YLT are one of the more unpredictable live bands, mainly for this reason.

Dean Warham

Ricky Wilson

I thought Ira was famous for marring Yo La shows by getting a little too into his guitar solos.

― bnw

oh man, the one time i saw them was kinda torture because of this

xp otm - it really can. YLT are one of the more unpredictable live bands, mainly for this reason.

love kaplan for his live guitar freakouts. the whole seem to really enjoy the jammy elements during their sets. saw them a couple weeks ago after not seeing them perform in over 10 years and was thrilled that ira played as enthusiastically as ever.

xpost - rockist? c'mon with this term already...

the whole band seem

Old ILM threads that are really quite bad.

Bad threads that are really good

huh, 'til now I'd never heard the whole spiel about how Kevi Shields used way fewer overdubs than most people realize. bad threads are good for something, I guess.

As a rule I prefer sloppy & passionate over technical & precise any day of the week and 5 or 6 times over the weekend. So, much love to Neil Young, Bruce Springsteen & his cohort Steve van Zandt [Lofgren's a bit too much in the technical camp for me], Takayashi Mizutani, Sterling Morrison, Jad Fair, Tom Verlaine, Lenny Kaye, Fred Sonic Smith, Ron Asheton, Johnny Ramone, Leigh Stephens, Mark Farner, the original Dream Syndicate lead guitarist who's name I can't believe I can't remember, Rudolph Grey [Blue freekin Humans!!], etc...........

lou reed def. henry flynt. early basho&fahey, bunch of producers&djs that play their own little parts. there's obviously a difference between being good at composing for guitar&proficient at playing it

I knew Joey Santiago would get mentioned at least once here, and I mostly agree, except for the fact that I think he actually developed some real chops as time went on. The outro in "Alec Eiffel" is some pretty tricky stuff.

iirc Stina Nordenstam taught herself how to play guitar just so she could record all those chilly postpunk guitar parts on Dynamite. so, that's my answer.

Bernard Sumner.

Stephen Malkmus.