trance = progression of classical music?

Yes.

As in just your crazy theory.

Are drugs involved in the asking of this question?

Melodic variation is the heart and soul of classical music: take Beethoven's middle and late quartets, whose builds & breaks are oceanic in their grandeur -- they couldn't do what they do if they were grim-facedly determined to rest their entire structures on a single chord. Trance, rather = the elevation of Donna Summer's "I Feel Love" to totemic status. I argue with a trance DJ friend of mine constantly over whether trance with lyrics would be something the masses would embrace. I say maybe, he says the trance people would hate it and nobody else would get it. I'm not so sure there's actually that much to get.

"Motoric" is probably an appropriate description, seeing as trance's rhythm is entirely digital and inorganic.

I don't know if that's necessarilly "powerful" though. More of a bombardment, like a migraine.

trance = regression of house music.

at what point did trance become so critically reviled, because, for a certain period at least, trance had 'cred' in the uk, and german imports were critically popular, i'm talking Harthouse, Eye-Q (to an extent), MFS.

was Jones & Stephenson's The First Rebirth the record that killed trance?

Good point, Gareth.

Though The First Rebirth was one cut out of a thousand. Trance, like any other idea that ever existed, had adopted its own formula by about 1995 and became entirely self-referential and thus, no longer relevant to anything or anybody else in our world.

That's not to say the the IDEA of trance hasn't found favour in other genres, such as certain breeds of house, IDM and breaks.

"I argue with a trance DJ friend of mine constantly over whether trance with lyrics would be something the masses would embrace..."

well. IT ALREADY IS embraced! Look at German music market...

"they couldn't do what they do if they were grim-facedly determined to rest their entire structures on a single chord.!"

it's evident you didn't hear much commercial trance music in your life - i mean,it's richness of melody (very often melodic overdose) is what I'm talking about here, and the way it manipulates with emotions on half-kitch level... I'm NOT talking about "Jaguar" being 160BPM version of "Carmina Burana" now (I'm not that drugged up! ;))), but it would be interesting to hear comments from trance lovers, not only classical music fans on this topic... :)

IT ALREADY IS embraced! Look at German music market...

...likewise in the Netherlands, one can barely avoid it.

Maybe it's a progression of Germanic folk songs? (There's a trance thing which features samples of Metallica's "Master of Puppets". Everyone knows speed-metal and polka are rhythmically similar.)

"Maybe it's a progression of Germanic folk songs? (There's a trance thing which features samples of Metallica's "Master of Puppets". Everyone knows speed-metal and polka are rhythmically similar.)"

well... that would explain german obsession with trance music... :) speed-metal and polka...? well in that case, let us consider waltz as a root to hip hop and breakbeat! :)

Melodic variation is the heart and soul of classical music

Except when it isn't, such as the case with Debussy. With him (and his legion of followers, though only Messiaen and perhaps Ravel come to mind as "disciples", Debussy's techniques were integrated into just about every 20th Century composer's work), the melodies weren't always the main show, as I would probably describe his strategy as something like "textural variation". And if trance is partially derived from any kind of classical music, I would say that Debussy's would be a prime suspect.

However, if I had to draw a trance lineage, I would probably have to pass through orchestral movie soundtracks before I got back to Debussy. People like Bernard Herrmann, Nino Rota, Maurice Jarre -- they also specialized in evocative textures (as most soundtrack composers must, IMO), and were probably heard by a lot more aspiring trance musicians, even if just by accident.

John Darnielle said:

"I argue with a trance DJ friend of mine constantly over whether trance with lyrics would be something the masses would embrace. I say maybe, he says the trance people would hate it and nobody else would get it."

If you're curious, download a few songs: Apoptygma Berzerk's "Kathy's Song," Covenant's "Dead Stars," and VNV Nation's "Kingdom." This stuff gets called EBM -- it's a mix of trancelike keyboards, industrial tempo and synthpop-style vocals. These songs are okay, especially the VNV Nation track, but unfortunately most of the rest of the music is very sub-par, kind of a uselessly watered-down version of industrial, and has taken over in most gothic/industrial DJ nights all across the land, unfortunately.

So, in terms of subculture, it's been successful. You'd have to do something different to make it on modern pop radio (i.e. Madonna, Cher and that near-trance sound).

just say no to trance.

Hm, not sure I'd go with the classical angle - seems to me raher that vocal/melodic-euro-chart trance (as in Fragma, Sylver, Safri Duo, CJ Stone, Dario G etc) is the succesor to the larger-than-life melodrama of Culture Beat, La Bouche and other early nineties euro dance pop mavericks. It's certainly got the same cultural status: the most popular (well, in continental Europe at least) singalong dance form that can be euphoric, but also heartbreakingly melancholic (check out Sylver's gloriously mournful crystalline stomper 'Turn The Tide').

That it's not revered round here, doesn't surprise me: after all, ILM is mostly UK/US-centric, and when you people deal with pop - Britney, Kylie etc - it's the stuff that's on your radio and your charts, and everyone will love it or hate it and have opinion on it. As far as I've seen, pop trance of the variety I'm speaking of only occasionally drops into the, say, UK Top 40 - on the other hand, round my parts it's utterly ubiquitous. This can be, in large part, credited to the influence of Germany on the mainstream of eastern Europe, especially to the German satellite version of MTV called Viva that plays this stuff all the time.

My point would be - when done right, trance pop can be the most heavenly pop music on this planet, and you folks aren't giving it the chance it deserves.

Are you sure? What should I take a chance on? I am tired and cynical about the stuff so help me if you can.

search yr feelings, young honda, you know them do be true.

(with paul oakenfold as the emperor.)

in case anyone didn't realize, that meant trance is bad, mmm'kay?

That it's not revered round here, doesn't surprise me:

What trance I hear, usually at 4:00am in Buffalo, I certainly revere: "Castles In The Sky", "Ordinary World", "Better Off Alone", "Look At Us" - that's about all I know, but it's all very poignant and striking, I think.

As regards EBM, as much as I want to love it, it's just not possible. EBM somehow manages to be the most talentless genre there is, without any of the charm which that should entail.

Fragma are probably the best at the euro-trance-pop stuff, so pearly pert you feel like you're in an enormous dishwasher. I'm much more sympathetic to this stuff now that it's not all over the radio anymore. Back when that horrid nasal bleep of "Better Off Alone" was everywhere I was like, okay, knives out. Now it seems touchingly halcyonic and gloriously escapist, a complete gender-neutral rush that's close to devotional.

The whole Fragma album is surprisingly consistent and fantastic too, all killer no filler.

A trance track that I absolutely adore is William Orbit's interpretation of Barber's "Adagio For Strings". It's absolutely perfect.

William Orbit's harmless ambient interpretation is fine... but if you mean the trance remixes then I'm afraid I must disagree with you. It really ruins the original's beautiful arrangement for me.

I would like to know what you all feel about this one:

http://music.peoplesound.com/artists/artisthome.asp? country=en&artistID=47441

That address will take you to a Peoplesound.com page were this artist has posted a trance remix of Vivaldi. Its called "Vivaldi 2000" (not the club mix) I was very impressed with the deep trance "feel" of the rendition, and yet Vivaldi's original theme remains intact...

i have also heard trance remixes of "losing my religion" and "popcorn" by hot butter. it is insidious how "well" it all works.

Trance is new genre within music. People who doesn't listen to it, should keep their mouths shut. A lot of trance artists today are superior to other musicians example: Paul Oakenfold, remixer, producer, composer. Artists like Madonna and U2 often use trance artists to produce their albums. And why the hell do we absolutely need vocals on trance music, classical music doesn't have vocals either. And trance is not commercial music, the music is more important than the money, understand!?!?!

i have no problem with trance, but the idea that it is not commerical is laughable! (ie, its soundtracking to corporate britain)

Actualy, "Real Trance" isn't commercial music. Many however have tried and tried to fit trance into such a discription. But what seems to happen is that the only thing that has made the jump onto the commercial bandwagon is the actual label "Trance Music" leaving the music to continuously evolve. This constant evolution of "True Trance" alone sets it apart from the more "cut-and-paste" mode pop and commercial music always seem to thrive in.

By the way.... Paul Oakenfold is living icon of what Trance is all about!!! He is very precise with his sound and style.

Speeking of style, A DJ's sound much remind me of the way you can tell two different composers apart although they were contemporaries of the same classical period.

i hope this turns into the trance version of 'jay-z vs nas....'

LOL ambrose.

I'm actually writing an essay on this topic for my english class :).

I saw some people getting offended by various artists interpreting and recreating the sounds of classic legends such as beethoven and vivaldi... it's nothing to be upset about. the whole point of their work is because they admire these geniuses work. so why should you be offended...blah...

classic & trance are both very similar...cuz...they were loved by dutch people :)

"jaguar" isn't trance, btw.