Thoughts on mid period XTC?

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Mind you, I'm far from a fan: I'm a respectful non-fan. "Mummer" and "The Big Express" are rarely cited as good albums, coming as they do between the mannered, herky-jerky Beatle-isms of their new wave period and "Skylarking." The "Upsy Daisy" compilation grabs several of my favorite XTC songs ("Love on a Farmboy's Wages" and "This World Over") from this period, so I wonder if their parent albums are worth owning.

― Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Wednesday, 26 January 2005 23:44 (twenty years ago)

"Mummer" is a very strange record with at least a handful of truly genius songs on it. But I think XTC is one of those bands that really suffers from "period" production - and the weakass drums and thin acoustic guitars on the album often don't do the songs justice. But it does have a weird, bucolic eeriness to it that I sometimes appreciate - especially w/the CD reissue with five bonus tracks stuck in the middle ("Gold", "Toys", a couple instrumentals). "Love on a Farmboy's Wages" is obviously tops, I'm also fond of "Ladybird", "Great Fire", "In Loving Memory of a Name". "The Big Express" I never liked, very tuneless. I could probably cobble together a truly great album from my favorite tracks off these two and "English Settlement", but as it is there's a bunch of crap on all three records, methinks.

― Shakey Mo Collier, Wednesday, 26 January 2005 23:51 (twenty years ago)

Well, Big Express is my second favorite XTC record right after Drums and Wires. That's at least partly because it's the only mid-period XTC record where the "period" production doesn't kill the album because it somehow fits. "Seagulls Sreaming," "You're the Wish You Are I Had," etc... Most of the songs on that album I think work well with the production.

But hey, that's just me.

― martin m. (mushrush), Wednesday, 26 January 2005 23:57 (twenty years ago)

shakey!

there's not one bad song on english settlement!

― cutty (mcutt), Thursday, 27 January 2005 00:04 (twenty years ago)

I can't stand Partridge's white funk/world music excursions - ergo I usually skip "Melt the Guns" and "It's Nearly Africa". I'm not too fond of "Leisure" or "Yacht Dance" either.

― Shakey Mo Collier, Thursday, 27 January 2005 00:08 (twenty years ago)

"Funk Pop A Roll" is unbearable. You might say it's the first explicitly rockist song written by a New Waver, a guy whose idea of funk is frantic percussion and grunts.

So, Shakey, Mummer and its "weird, bucolic eeriness" wins out over "The Big Express," eh? I heard and liked "All The Pretty Girls." But "Seagulls..." is bleh - talk about a period piece.

― Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Thursday, 27 January 2005 00:16 (twenty years ago)

shakey, what about "knuckle down" and "down in the cockpit"?

― cutty (mcutt), Thursday, 27 January 2005 00:20 (twenty years ago)

XTC rules!

― cozen (Cozen), Thursday, 27 January 2005 00:21 (twenty years ago)

it does for me - Big Express is too clanky and just, well, ugly sounding. "God Bless You All You Pretty Girls" is the best song on there that I can recall, and even then I only like half of it. I definitely prefer pastoral (or fuzz psych! yes!) XTC over crappy world-beat or new wave XTC. (Sorry, I do like a lot of the early stuff, but I largely agree w/Partridge's own views of his career arc).

"Knuckle Down" is okay. "Down in the Cockpit" I could take or leave.

x-post

― Shakey Mo Collier, Thursday, 27 January 2005 00:22 (twenty years ago)

So Partridge prefers the pastoral stuff to the pseudo-punk? I do too.

― Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Thursday, 27 January 2005 00:24 (twenty years ago)

I think what it is is that when Partridge sat down in the 80s to write a sweaty, rhythmic, pounding song, I was invariably repulsed by the strained, clanging sounds he came out with. Rather than inspiring any ass-shaking or tribal visions, I just got stuck on mental images of him flailing limbs in a clumsy attempt to do the mambo. blech.

Partridge's view of his career is that the pre-"studio" albums are all embarassingly forced, awkward, adolescent. For him it wasn't until he was allowed to slow down and concentrate on better performances and the pop "craft" that they really got going. So his personal favorite stuff is from "English Settlement" on...

x-post

― Shakey Mo Collier, Thursday, 27 January 2005 00:27 (twenty years ago)

I have never owned Mummer, actually...and I consider myself a strident XTC fan. It just seemed that that album personfied the "bucolic" XTC at its dullest. Personally, I prefer the noisy, clangy, hiccupy XTC (which re-reared its head on the unjustly maligned Big Express).

Oh, and I completely stopped paying attention after Nonesuch, which, itself, also was a big letdown for me.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Thursday, 27 January 2005 00:44 (twenty years ago)

the last two Apple Venus/Wasp Star albums were both a delight (tho the latter took a while to grow on me and still has some songs that are outright terrible - "Playground" = blech). But if you don't like the pastoral stuff you'll hate Apple Venus. Personally I think the album's close to perfect. Wasp Star was supposed to be its more "rock" counterpart, which I guess it is in some ways, but it's a far cry from, say, "Drums and Wires". There aren't any ballads, but it doesn't exactly explode out of your speakers - the most raucous thing on there is probably "Stupidly Happy" and even that one relies heavily on pretty harmonies.

After those two tho, I just couldn't be bothered to keep track of Partridge's uncontrollable "demo" output w/all that Fuzzy Warbles junk. Maybe I'll come back to them in a couple years when I'm in the mood...

― Shakey Mo Collier, Thursday, 27 January 2005 00:49 (twenty years ago)

The Big Express's only problem is that big fat Linn drum sound that's on almost every song (all by Partridge's admission) effectively dating the record. Otherwise, it's a masterpiece. There are only two Colin Moulding songs, but they are his best songs ever.. "Wake Up!" and "I Remember The Sun".. total Captain Beefheart/Steely Dan worship on both songs, respectively.

There's a LOT of really noisy, weird shit happening on The Big Express over some of their most complex tunes ever -- sometimes really intricately pretty and climactic -- sometimes really dour, which is probably why most people shy away from it. It's a really heavy, depressing record. "Train Running Low On Soul Coal".. I mean "I'm a thirty year old puppy doing what I'm told". The song ends in complete violent despair and death. Probably the most so on any pop album ever, from what I can tell.

The bonus tracks on it are also completely ace and even weirder.. "Red Brick Dream", "Washaway", "Blue Overalls".. *pound* *reverb* *weird harmonizing*. It's their most 80s sounding and their most Beefheart sounding album.

But it's not an album that invites a "hey, come listen to me! :)" as much as any of the other records. I'll grant that.

― donut christ (donut), Thursday, 27 January 2005 01:01 (twenty years ago)

Don't forget that this would have been the LAST XTC period if it weren't for The Dukes Of Stratosphear. The Dukes were a way for the band to get over their depression and internal squabbles, and calm themselves and "get back to where they belong".. in both cases, producer John Leckie, from the early days.

― donut christ (donut), Thursday, 27 January 2005 01:02 (twenty years ago)

Mummer is exceptional, but the tracks are in the wrong order. Play with the line-up and it improves out of sight.

The Big Express is very heavy on the percussion and metallic vibe. Some absolutely brilliant tracks; the whole of side 2 is just gorgeous. Side 1 is patchier but still completely indispensable <sp>.

Get both.

― Autumn Almanac (Autumn Almanac), Thursday, 27 January 2005 01:07 (twenty years ago)

dc kinda makes me want to hear this album again.... altho I always thought XTC was far too mannered and methodical to really get into what was great about Beefheart. I believe Partridge wholeheartedly when he professes and appreciation for him, it just seems to me that someone like Robyn Hitchcock was a million times better at it. The Steely Dan linkage is interesting tho, I hadn't thought of that (and I had no idea about Steely Dan when I first heard this record way back when)

― Shakey Mo Collier, Thursday, 27 January 2005 01:08 (twenty years ago)

Thank you DC for doing a better job than I did explaining why Big Express is great. I have no problem with the Linn drum sound at all, though, and like I said (though not explicitly) I think it works very well in the context, especially along with the quite heavy tone of that record.

I wasn't all that blown away by either of the Apple Venus records, though they both have their moments. I did like Nonesuch when it came out though, and I do like all variants of XTC quite a bit for what it's worth.

― martin m. (mushrush), Thursday, 27 January 2005 01:11 (twenty years ago)

Oh, and as Donut Christ said, Moulding's best songwriting is on The Big Express.

I love Nonsuch with a burning passion [despite Dudgeon's unsuitable production [I don't care how dead he is, the production's still unsuitable]]. Wasp Star doesn't do it for me [despite me having previously fallen in love with the demos]; I get more out of Apple Venus, but still find that a difficult listen unless I'm in the right mood. The 'new' tracks off Fuzzy Warbles comprise some of the best work Partridge has ever done bar none [despite the other half being demos of stuff we've all heard before].

― Autumn Almanac (Autumn Almanac), Thursday, 27 January 2005 01:19 (twenty years ago)

My favorite mid-period XTC record is Jules Vernes Sketchbook. It was a fan club cassette that collected outtakes from Mummer, Big Express and Skylarking, plus a few demos and scraps. But if you look at the songs, it's at least as good as Mummer and much more intense look at some common XTC themes - family, love, the English countryside and its decay, etc.

Choice songs:

- Happy Families
- Motorcycle Landscape
- Broomstick Rhythm
- Ra Ra for Rockinghorse
- Shaking Skinhouse (which became "Merely a Man")

And one of my five favorite Andy Partridge songs (and one of the best lolita songs I've heard):

- Young Cleopatra

These songs are coming out here and there on the Fuzzy Warbles discs but if you put it together (if you can find the rip-from-cassette on slsk), you've got a fascinating and in some ways, improved alternate history of this period.

― Chris Dahlen (Chris Dahlen), Thursday, 27 January 2005 01:21 (twenty years ago)

BTW, so far my favorite Warble is 5 - it has some of the songs I just mentioned, plus a demo of "Earn Enough For Us" that's much grittier than the Skylarking version.

― Chris Dahlen (Chris Dahlen), Thursday, 27 January 2005 01:21 (twenty years ago)

why does he bother differentiating demos/finished products - just put out a fucking record already and call it an XTC album. I don't understand his (or his fans) need for this obsessive compartmentalization.

― Shakey Mo Collier, Thursday, 27 January 2005 01:23 (twenty years ago)

Nor do I, I'd be happy to just have the new stuff and forego the alternate demos of pre-released songs. I think he wants to make a metric fuckload of money by stretching out the series for all it's worth.

― Autumn Almanac (Autumn Almanac), Thursday, 27 January 2005 01:25 (twenty years ago)

Autumn, I agree - except for "Earn Enough For Us" as mentioned above. And the skiffle version of "Dear God." And a few others ...

― Chris Dahlen (Chris Dahlen), Thursday, 27 January 2005 01:28 (twenty years ago)

I kinda knew when writing the original post that "The Big Express" was XTC's cult record, unable to build a consensus - that an album this insular would have its defenders and detractors. I suppose the only way to find out is to hear it myself. This discussion has made me most curious.

― Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Thursday, 27 January 2005 01:28 (twenty years ago)

I think he wants to make a metric fuckload of money by stretching out the series for all it's worth.

If anyone deserves to make a metric fuckload of money, it's XTC. They've got to be one of if not the most prolific band to still need the occasional day job. Sure, it's because (unlike the vast majority of "successful" acts) they have no income from touring, but still...

I like the version of "Some Lovely" that appeared on the Andy Partridge installment of the Hello Recording Club way better than the one on Wasp Star. Partly is just that I'm much more used to it (considering the Hello disc is from 1994), but I don't think that's the only reason.

Big Express is great Alfred... You shall email me if you have trouble finding a way to hear it... ;)

― martin m. (mushrush), Thursday, 27 January 2005 01:39 (twenty years ago)

Thanks for the offer, Martin. I'll remember that :)

― Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Thursday, 27 January 2005 01:53 (twenty years ago)

Is the spacious, faux-dub "This World Over" characteristic of "The Big Express"? I think it was Ned Raggett at AMG who said it was Police-like, an apt description...

― Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Thursday, 27 January 2005 03:18 (twenty years ago)

I'll pipe out of lurking to discuss this:
I never understood why this period of XTC was so maligned, even by their fans. The reception on this thread has been largely lukewarm. I don't see why one would overlook the period production that looms over 'Oranges and Lemons' (for example) yet condemn 'The Big Express' for it, which is by far their most underrated album. I was writing about it the other night, track by track. Here's a sample and I think a good paraphrase:
4 - Seagull Screaming Kiss Her Kiss Her: Opening chords and the manipulated vocals have a creeping but inviting quality. Partridge is on his lyrical game here, but this could be biased by my love of shy boys. People should look at Partridge's lyrics to learn how to woo the ladies. The synth horns channel a dark cabaret feel while avoiding '80s corniness - an impressive feat. A very strong bridge with plaintive vocals from Partridge, whose versatility allows him to turn things that would sound trite from almost anyone else into masterful, genuinely afftecting works. (Imagine if Oingo Boingo performed 'Across This Antheap' and the embarrassing results.) I always imagined this song as the partner of 'All you Pretty Girls' - a sort of dual discussion of the general greatness and specific anxiety of loving the opposite sex.
5 - This World Over - The song Sting always wished he could write with the Police. The comparison was always hinted at by the song's sensetive lite-dub feel. Amazingly avoids feeling cloying, though I doubt everyone would agree, hence my reluctance to put it on tapes for others. A tender handling of the potential for nuclear apocalypse. The keyboards define the low key despondency of the song and increase its gentleness. I think the third verse is a far more subtle and effective critique of Christianity than the whole of 'Dear God.' It shows how strong the band was at this point.

― Abbott, Thursday, 27 January 2005 05:09 (twenty years ago)

If anyone deserves to make a metric fuckload of money, it's XTC. They've got to be one of if not the most prolific band to still need the occasional day job.

Oh, I agree totally. That's why I have no qualms about forking out the cash for every Fuzzy Warbles release.

Is the spacious, faux-dub "This World Over" characteristic of "The Big Express"?

Not really. It's a weakly produced song, but the rest of the album is very punchy and strong. It's a bit of a misfit actually.

― Autumn Almanac (Autumn Almanac), Thursday, 27 January 2005 05:39 (twenty years ago)

"This World Over"! Be still my beating heart, it's been too long since I've heard that.

I've always felt Big Express was one of their best albums. I tend to judge XTC pretty exclusively on songwriting and not much else, and I think it has a higher than average number of strong tunes. I always felt English Settlement was the most difficult of XTC albums overall, though I pretty much made peace with it last time I went on an XTC trip.

Mummer overall is weak, I admit, but long before I ever owned an XTC disc, I heard "Deliver Us From The Elements" on the radio, found myself bewitched by its eerieness, played it over and over and over. I was too young to even hazard a guess as to what in the world it might have been about, I only knew it was very odd sounding. So I guess I always tip my hat to Mummer just for having that song on it, and it's still one of the strangest songs I've ever heard. Such a great tune as well!

"Funk Pop A Roll" is unbearable.

Indeed it is. XTC fan or not, I always skip that one.

Oh, and I completely stopped paying attention after Nonesuch, which, itself, also was a big letdown for me.

Same here, although a few years ago I checked out Apple Venus from the library just to see what it was like. I found it charming enough, but it didn't inspire me to want to listen to it more than once, really. Doesn't mean I might not go back to it someday, though.

I am a huge fan of Colin Moulding, and if he had only decided to take part in the Fuzzy Warbles stuff I would have jumped all over it. But from what I read he felt it wouldn't to be right to release what he considered substandard stuff.

Of course I haven't mentioned what my most favourite XTC albums are yet, but since this isn't a thread about that...

― Bimble... (Bimble...), Thursday, 27 January 2005 06:16 (twenty years ago)

XTC have fluctuated from "eh" to "ooh!" since Psonic Psunspot

Psonic Psunspot: THUMBS UP!
Oranges & Lemons: thumbs down
Nonsuch: tHuMb WaVeRiNg (but certainly higher than for O&L)
Apple Venus: THUMBS UP!
Wasp Star: thumbs down

Mind you, all these albums have at least a few songs I like.

― donut christ (donut), Thursday, 27 January 2005 06:28 (twenty years ago)

A friend of mine used to be "asst producer" on a few XTC demos (Nigel being one of them, see "Coat"). Anyhow, he had a tape of a few Colin demo tracks (recorded with my mates mates on instruments) that never got taken up by the band, so were 'available' if we wanted to use them in our band. But I didn't like them. Heck, we should have done them anyway...

Oh, Ian Lee (of 11 o'clock show fame) is a mad XTC/Partridge fan, btw)

― mark grout (mark grout), Thursday, 27 January 2005 09:06 (twenty years ago)

Actually, I love "This World Over." Its warmth and spaciousness, Partridge's acknowledgment that there's a bigger world out there besides farms and small towns, its lovely melody, that beautiful guitar synth (?) solo - great stuff.

― Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Thursday, 27 January 2005 12:12 (twenty years ago)

I think the third verse is a far more subtle and effective critique of Christianity than the whole of 'Dear God.'

On many levels the "Piss Christ" photo is a more effective critique of Christianity than "Dear God." "Dear God" drives me nuts because it's such an adolescent argument. It's the pissed off 16 year-old commentary.

"Oh yeah, God, well if you're so great then how come people are starving, maaaan?"

I got no trouble with Andy being blunt with his metaphors. ("Your Dictionary" from Apple Venus is an example what happens when he does it well.) I just find "Dear God" tedious.

Also, what does it say about a song when, on a tribute album, Sarah McLachlan picks it as the one she'll cover? (Hint: It says that it's seen by some as "confrontational" or "deeply emotional" but really it's tame fare.)

― martin m. (mushrush), Thursday, 27 January 2005 22:49 (twenty years ago)

On the other hand, the odd little bass line that's jumping around in the acoustic guitar part on "Dear God" is genius in its simple but odd-sounding effectiveness, so there's that.

― martin m. (mushrush), Thursday, 27 January 2005 22:50 (twenty years ago)

Can I say how much I loathe the XTC tribute CD?

I can actually tolerate the Crash Test Dummies and TMBG contributions, and Terry And The Lovemen of course. But I will never forgive Spacehog for what they did to "Senses Working Overtime". I'm not blown away by the Ruben Blades contribution, despite everyone else being blown away by it, apparently.

― donut christ (donut), Thursday, 27 January 2005 22:54 (twenty years ago)

..although I only bring it up because the tribute DOES cover a bunch of mid period XTC stuff.. especially a few Big Express songs if I'm not mistaken, which made me initially excited. But it's all so blaaaaah, unfortunately.

― donut christ (donut), Thursday, 27 January 2005 22:55 (twenty years ago)

fortunately (or unfortunately? I'm not sure) I think Partridge is well aware of the facile nature of his "argument" in the song, and has always been rather befuddled by its popularity. I mean, I'm sure it's occurred to him that the short answer to his argument "how can there be a God when there is suffering?" - is obviously that God hates us.

― Shakey Mo Collier, Thursday, 27 January 2005 22:57 (twenty years ago)

OTM

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Thursday, 27 January 2005 23:02 (twenty years ago)

..although I only bring it up because the tribute DOES cover a bunch of mid period XTC stuff.. especially a few Big Express songs if I'm not mistaken, which made me initially excited. But it's all so blaaaaah, unfortunately.

The Crash Test Dummies song you indicated you can tolerate is "All You Pretty Girls," isn't it?

I pretty much agree with you on the whole too. I bought the tribute for the TMBG cover. In my collection that disc is treated more as another "comp TMBG appeared on" than an "XTC-related" item.

Oh, don't get me wrong. It doesn't make me like Partridge less. The lyrics just annoy me is all.

Actually I think the short answer is that unfortunately God made a metaphorical rock so big that He couldn't metaphorically lift it.

― martin m. (mushrush), Thursday, 27 January 2005 23:08 (twenty years ago)

"Dear God" drives me nuts because it's such an adolescent argument. It's the pissed off 16 year-old commentary.

Um, you know how it opens and closes with a young kid singing? That, right there, is Partridge actually saying that the whole thing is an adolescent argument.

The other thing I think you might be missing is the fact that Partridge is saying 'I don't believe in you' and 'I can't believe in you' and 'I won't believe in you'. He's addressing the very being he doesn't believe in. He's trying to not believe [hence the 'pissed-off commentary'], but clearly he does. I think he's even said as much in interviews.

― Autumn Almanac (Autumn Almanac), Friday, 28 January 2005 01:34 (twenty years ago)

I mean, Partridge isn't religious, but the song is a battle with belief in this god.

― Autumn Almanac (Autumn Almanac), Friday, 28 January 2005 01:35 (twenty years ago)

I did not have any intention of turning this thread into a discussion of that song, so sorry about that.

Trust me Adam, I didn't miss the fact that the narrator is addressing the being he doesn't believe in nor did I miss the fact that it opens and closes with a kid singing. It's just that none of those things make the song less annoying to me. (To be honest, the kid singing makes it more annoying.)

I hope my comments haven't led you to believe that I just don't "get" the song, cause I think I do "get" it. It's just that I don't particularly "like" it.

― martin m. (mushrush), Friday, 28 January 2005 01:41 (twenty years ago)

But let's talk about The Big Express...

― martin m. (mushrush), Friday, 28 January 2005 01:42 (twenty years ago)

Any "Big Express" fans think "All You Pretty Girls" was a good choice of single? It seems like the record company selected this as a single; from what I've heard of the album it's atypical.

― Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Friday, 28 January 2005 01:43 (twenty years ago)

Virgin were absolutely shit at choosing XTC singles in this period..
A better single choice would have been "You're The Wish You Are I Had"... and I can see "This World Over" or an edited version thereof being a decent single choice. but "Wake Up!"? Great first song for the album, but not a great single choice at all. and "All You Pretty Girls" is just way too vaudeville for a single. "Everyday Story Of Smalltown" would have been better, I think.

But let's talk about "Mermaid Smiled", the song that "Dear God" replaced on Skylarking, and how great "Mermaid Smiled" is...

― donut christ (donut), Friday, 28 January 2005 01:48 (twenty years ago)

"You're The Wish You Are I Had" is weird on that record too though, cause to me it sounds a bit like it should have appeared on a later-era XTC record. Great great song, regardless.

― martin m. (mushrush), Friday, 28 January 2005 02:11 (twenty years ago)

But let's talk about The Big Express...

I think "Wake Up" is fuckin' great.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Friday, 28 January 2005 02:24 (twenty years ago)

I hope my comments haven't led you to believe that I just don't "get" the song, cause I think I do "get" it. It's just that I don't particularly "like" it.

Ah I misunderstood. Sorry.

― Autumn Almanac (Autumn Almanac), Friday, 28 January 2005 03:37 (twenty years ago)

Virgin were absolutely shit at choosing XTC singles in this period..

God yeah. Virgin wanted instant chart success, which it would have got by selecting You're the Wish You Are I Had [one of my top ten, just gorgeous] or Smalltown.

― Autumn Almanac (Autumn Almanac), Friday, 28 January 2005 03:39 (twenty years ago)

Playing Big Express album now. The CD is now playing "Washaway". I feel so strange. Like I'm hearing it for the first time.

― Bimble... (Bimble...), Friday, 28 January 2005 05:28 (twenty years ago)

The album I forget, but love to remember. Except for "This World Over" which of course, I remember without having to hear it again.

You see, XTC is not a band I pull out on a regular basis at all. Instead, my experience with them was restricted to two big long XTC trips, spaced about 12-13 years apart. Needless to say, I liked them even more the second time. You tend to process albums like Mummer very differently when you're in the middle of this one big long XTC obsessive trip than if you're just playing Mummer on it's own. Time starts to warp and go slower when you're on an XTC trip. You just process things differently.

― Bimble... (Bimble...), Friday, 28 January 2005 05:43 (twenty years ago)

Colin Moulding is The King of the Underappreciated Genius Bass Players. Holy crap can he play -- and holy crap if he doesn't make impossible stuff sound offhand, simple and perfect, which nobody in the offical canon of bass geekdom does.

― Colin Meeder (Mert), Friday, 28 January 2005 09:55 (twenty years ago)

x-post

XTC is the one band I would pay ANY sum of money (reasonable or otherwise) to see live.

― cdwill, Friday, 28 January 2005 17:10 (twenty years ago)

Colin Moulding is The King of the Underappreciated Genius Bass Players

He splits his time actually between that and The King of the Underappreciated-or-at-Least-Overshadowed Genius Songwriters as well.

― martin m. (mushrush), Friday, 28 January 2005 19:49 (twenty years ago)

Colin was offered to play bass in Pink Floyd's comeback tour in 1987.. and at first he was excited, as he grew up and was inspired by Floyd, but then he said after playing the bass parts to "Money" and other songs he said "I'd have to relearn all these fuckers again. Fuck it" and didn't accept the offer. So instead, another Dukes Of Stratosphear section was booked.. this time a full album.
This ended up saving the band, basically.. (for better or worse)
Colin is extremely talented, but I get the sense that laziness drives a lot of his decisions thoughout his career. (I can sympathize.. haha)

Keep in mind that Colin had officially left the band during the Skylarking sessions, and had to be heavily coerced to come back and finish up. He wasn't talking to Andy much at the time. Of course, the success of Oranges & Lemons kinda brought the band back... even though Colin hasn't officially annulled his resignation letter/contract to this day.

Ironically, it would be the long known arbitor and peace maker, Dave Gregory, that would leave the band acrimoniously during the Apple Venus sessions...

― donut christ (donut), Friday, 28 January 2005 20:18 (twenty years ago)

"Wake Up" is a wonderful headphones song.

― zaxxon25 (zaxxon25), Friday, 28 January 2005 20:52 (twenty years ago)

I just wanted to echo donut's assertion that the Dukes of Stratosphear stuff includes some truly fabulous songs, perhaps some of the best of their whole career. I for one am really glad they decided to go down that little detour.

"Wake Up" is also great stuff, but then so is most of the album, so, you know...

― Bimble... (Bimble...), Sunday, 30 January 2005 04:08 (twenty years ago)

Seconded on the Dukes stuff. The 'anthology' is one of my top five albums of all time.

― Autumn Almanac (Autumn Almanac), Monday, 31 January 2005 03:22 (twenty years ago)

ten months pass...

So...anyone wanna send me The Big Express via YSI?

― Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Sunday, 11 December 2005 15:07 (twenty years ago)

yo bitch if yo punk ass wanna ride tha big-ass express then yo sorry ass BETTER PAY UP to me and c-money

all da pretty hoes dont come for free yo

― ESTEBAN BUTTEZ~!!, Sunday, 11 December 2005 15:13 (twenty years ago)

whoops

― ESTEBAN BUTTEZ~!!, Sunday, 11 December 2005 15:13 (twenty years ago)

ha i knew gangsta andy partridge = esteban

― cutty (mcutt), Sunday, 11 December 2005 15:44 (twenty years ago)

gangsta andy rulezz!!

it took alfred all year to get around to actually listening to BE...

― Mitya (mitya), Sunday, 11 December 2005 16:12 (twenty years ago)

Ha! It took me all YEAR to request it!

― Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Sunday, 11 December 2005 17:23 (twenty years ago)

ha i knew gangsta andy partridge = esteban

Not especially surprising.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Sunday, 11 December 2005 17:49 (twenty years ago)

I, too, welcome our new Gangsta An D. Partridj overlord.

― dali madison's nut (donut), Sunday, 11 December 2005 18:49 (twenty years ago)

ten months pass...

I had a love/hate relationship w/The Big Express for the first 10 years I owned it, but now I think it's one of their best records. In some cases ("Reign of Blows", "Wake Up", "You're the Wish You Are I Had"), I don't think they ever did much better. The only track I can't handle is "This World Over" which seems way...something. It seems corny to me, but I don't know if that would translate to anyone else. Anyway, awesomeness.

Mummer, however, seems worse than I used to think it was, and I never thought it was that great. In fact, imo the gap in quality between these two records is maybe the biggest in the whole XTC catalog.

― Dominique (dleone), Wednesday, 8 November 2006 23:51 (nineteen years ago)

It's strange, Dominique, because for me both records are basically the same. A few really good songs, but overall not so great by XTC standards. I can't say a really bad XTC album though.

― zeus (zeus), Thursday, 9 November 2006 00:01 (nineteen years ago)

TBE really started ticking for me when I stopped caring if there were cool vocal harmonies in all the songs, or if the chord progressions sounded like mutant Beatle songs. And now, when those things actually do happen on TBE, they seem all the more shiny. Otherwise, it's just insanely detailed art-pop, with a lot of the stuff that doesn't sound anything like any other XTC record. I mean, wtf was going on in "Reign of Blows"? "Train Running Low on Soul Coal"? It's like they became a bubblegum industrial band or something.

― Dominique (dleone), Thursday, 9 November 2006 00:11 (nineteen years ago)

the cd reissue of Mummer with a bunch of extra tracks really improves it (i loved it when it came out but the original doesn't hold up too well) the added tracks to big express don't add much EXCEPT Red Brick Dream which is one of my fave xtc tracks ever, but big express was always a bit of a chore (terry chambers was ace)

― timmy tannin (pompous), Thursday, 9 November 2006 03:57 (nineteen years ago)

when I purged my CDs years ago I kept Big Express and Skylarking & that's it (though I still have them all on vinyl)

Big Express definitely the weirdest / furthest out they ever got production wise. every track sounds very different, and very strange. "Train Running Low" maybe their most intense ending ever.

― milton parker (Jon L), Thursday, 9 November 2006 04:13 (nineteen years ago)

I like "Mummer" a lot, which I feel like is the start of their late-period i.e. the XTC I like best. The singles are really great, and the rest of the tracks work out too. One needs the digital remaster, though, as the earlier version dragged itself down by putting a lot of pointless single-b-sides in the middle of the album.

The "Big Express" I feel just didn't work out even though I cannot precicely say why. A couple of good singles on that one too, but the rest is horrible.

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Thursday, 9 November 2006 09:42 (nineteen years ago)

Can there really be 79 posts in this thread and no one has mentioned the genius of "Beating of Hearts"? I can't be the only one!

Drum machines kill pop songs, therefore Mummer wins.

― Hideous Lump (Hideous Lump), Friday, 10 November 2006 04:33 (nineteen years ago)

The Big Express is one of my favourite favourite XTC albums. Which is almost all of them. Anyway, it's easily the most underrated XTC album. All tracks are pretty ace except for "I Bought Myself a Liarbird" and "Reign of Blows" - which is made up on the reissues with "Red Brick Dream" and "Washaway".

"This World Over" is easily the best of the earnest 80s anti-nuclear anthems. Which isn't saying much, mind you.

― wordy rappaport (EstieButtez1), Friday, 10 November 2006 04:37 (nineteen years ago)

OH AND THE PRODUCTION ISN'T TOO BAD

MUMMER HAD WORSE!!

― wordy rappaport (EstieButtez1), Friday, 10 November 2006 04:38 (nineteen years ago)

Not as moody as early-period XTC, but not as happy as late-period XTC.

― Scorpion Tea (Dick Butkus), Friday, 10 November 2006 04:57 (nineteen years ago)

well, reversing the words "moody" and "happy", yeah

― gwynywdd dwnyt fyrwr byychydd gww (donut), Friday, 10 November 2006 07:04 (nineteen years ago)

I was just going for a joke about menstrual cycles.

― Scorpion Tea (Dick Butkus), Friday, 10 November 2006 07:08 (nineteen years ago)

Nothing wrong about the "Mummer" production. Meeting the modern world with a more modern sound.

And, as for "The Big Express", the problem isn't the drum machines, but rather the lack of good songs.

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Friday, 10 November 2006 11:29 (nineteen years ago)

Had no problem getting rid of Big Express and Mummer not too long ago - the import (to US) Compact XTC Singles 79/85, and the Beeswax b-sides collection, seemed to me like the best pre-Skylarking collections that filled the album gaps - perhaps EPs would have served them best while they worked through personnel/personal issues. That said - I'm now listening to a great March '82 recording from E. Sttlmnt tour - Genova Italy - they played so well in front of a crowd and Andy's stagefright is evident, but somehow drives the fun in the show. I sure would've loved to have seen them during this period.

― SonicDeath (BlackIronPrison), Monday, 13 November 2006 01:55 (nineteen years ago)

Isn't there a box set of Peel Sessions out now?

I lost a lot of interest in this thread the minute someone dissed "This World Over" from Big Express. That's just cloth ears, man.

― Kid B (Bimble...), Monday, 13 November 2006 02:02 (nineteen years ago)

Drum machines kill pop songs, therefore Mummer wins.

-- Hideous Lump (totallyfak...), November 10th, 2006.

Don't get out much, do you?

"This World Over" is easily the best of the earnest 80s anti-nuclear anthems. Which isn't saying much, mind you

I agree; it's tied with "99 Luftballoons."

By the way, almost two years since starting this thread, I still don't own TBE. Someone care to send it?

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Monday, 13 November 2006 02:07 (nineteen years ago)

eight years pass...

rented some DVD collection of XTC clips on Friday, a bunch of which I'd seen before, but one that was on there that I hadn't seen was some TV doc made of them in 1983 and shot in Swindon, featuring interviews w each of the band members plus some filmed videos to accompany Love on a Farmboy's Wages, Human Alchemy, Funk Pop a Roll and one other I can't remember. Oddly Andy spent the entirety of his interview segment discussing toy soldiers and a bunch of games he'd invented (complete with custom-made pieces, boards, boxes, rules, etc.). Probably on youtube somewhere, def worth checking out.

― Οὖτις, Monday, 16 March 2015 16:46 (ten years ago)

Andy has retained his love of childhood comics, toys and games. Fans often send him things unbidden. He's a great man-child, taking pleasure in things most people think they need to let go of when they get older.

― Gerald McBoing-Boing, Monday, 16 March 2015 18:29 (ten years ago)

no doubt - I was just surprised by the level of attention/detail/investment he'd gone into making his own boardgames, having his in-laws manufacture custom dice, things like that

― Οὖτις, Monday, 16 March 2015 18:48 (ten years ago)

it was cool, would love to come over to his house and play some weird games with him

― Οὖτις, Monday, 16 March 2015 18:48 (ten years ago)

eleven months pass...

Don't understand why The Big Express is so disliked - the production on Oranges & Lemons sounds way more "dated," but it doesn't bother me in either case. The Big Express sounds great, and the songs are incredible - All You Pretty Girls, I Bought Myself a Liarbird, Seagulls, Wake Up...

― flappy bird, Wednesday, 9 March 2016 03:01 (nine years ago)

Yep. It was my entry point, so I'm biased, but I find "The Big Express" way more fun and enjoyable than "Skylarking" (which I think is overrated). There's a playfulness even to things as bitter as "Liarbird" that isn't there afterwards.

― Gerald McBoing-Boing, Wednesday, 9 March 2016 04:59 (nine years ago)

"Skylarking" (which I think is overrated)

We're a small club, but we are united.

― Ⓓⓡ. (Johnny Fever), Wednesday, 9 March 2016 06:21 (nine years ago)

Not underestimated by me, The Big Express is a fine record and I'm often clogging up XTC threads with my Mummer-is-their-best-record stans.

I can think of nothing more pleasurable than buying the cut price Virgin CDs (3 for 21 quid from Virgin Megastore in Glasgow) when I was 19 and working my way through that middle period, even with the wacky sequencing where Virgin inserted the B sides in the middle of the CD, who ever thought of that?

― MaresNest, Wednesday, 9 March 2016 10:01 (nine years ago)

I prefer both Big Express and Oranges & Lemons over Skylarking. Mind, if ever I'm blushing with afterglow and contemplating the cycle of life in some glade, Skylarking would be an excellent soundtrack. But its pretty far removed from my life or even my fantasy life.

The Todd Rundgreen production played a role in the overrating.

― Assault Mime (Sanpaku), Wednesday, 9 March 2016 15:45 (nine years ago)

x-post:

Yeah, the reissues with the B-sides between "sides" were fucking odd... even stranger is that the approach actually enhanced Mummer!

― // 166,000 W A N K E R S // LOVE (Turrican), Wednesday, 9 March 2016 18:26 (nine years ago)

Red Brick Dream is one of my favourite XTC song, truly, and I'd probably never have gotten to hear it till years later.

idk if I'd agree that Mummer is enhanced by Procession.. or Desert Island, but Toys, Jump and Gold fit in very well.

― MaresNest, Wednesday, 9 March 2016 18:47 (nine years ago)

The Big Express has songs!! Wake Up, All You Pretty Girls, I Bought Myself a Liarbird, Seagulls Screaming Kiss Her Kiss Her, I Remember the Sun, This World Over, Shake You Donkey Up, You're the Wish You Are I Had...

― flappy bird, Wednesday, 9 March 2016 18:48 (nine years ago)

x-post:

I agree that 'Procession' (in particular) and 'Desert Island' are the weakest of the additional tracks, but 'Gold', 'Toys' and 'Jump' all could have been on the album proper and I wouldn't have complained! The only track I'm not so keen on on the album itself is 'Human Alchemy', really.

― // 166,000 W A N K E R S // LOVE (Turrican), Wednesday, 9 March 2016 18:54 (nine years ago)

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