exile on mainstreet: the 1st great rock cliche?

the 1st was probably some bit of journalism in the NME, but i'd have to do some digging.

that knife aside, i got to wondering when the split from rock as created to rock as projected was. (i also wonder if it was always projected) Exile, in its lyrics, structures, and general stance, strikes me as projection. it's all quite aerosmithy. when did the bubble burst? when did the stereotypes become the reality?

i'm asking because i can't say honestly that i know. i don't have the greatest grasp on the entire 60's into the 70's trip.

if the "founding fathers" of punk decided it had to get more extreme in the 60's, then there must have already been a conversion from rock to Rock before Exile.

I know plenty of old people who say, "yeah, the Stones were great around 'Aftermath' and so forth, 'Exile' is decadent, over-done, etc." Well, good for you, man--enjoy your Sonics records too while you're at it.

"Exile" is a great record. What's wrong with it? It's a masterful piece of work. It bears the same relationship to earlier stuff as does, say, Big Star's "#1 Record" did to the Byrds or Moby Grape, right? Bigger, more, "late," etc. Or Yes to the Byrds or the Beatles--bigger, more. Of course Yes is far more stupid and un-cognizant of, uh, Beale Street or something. Sly's "Riot" and James Brown, the same. The Stones were professionals and I for one admire that on "Exile," because it's a textbook of how to play rock a certain way--and if that's of no value to you, then enjoy something less accomplished and have at it. It just seems like moldy-fig shit to me. The understatement of "Exile" is something to marvel at, the density of what are basic simple structures. So if that's a cliché, so be it. I think "Let It Bleed" is probably the greatest Stones record, or "Aftermath," but if you say "Exile" I won't argue.

Now I love just about the whole thing. I'll admit that it's not an immediate grabber like "Let it Bleed" or "Sticky Fingers."

And I love "Dirty Work" so fuck all y'all.

and while i don't think Exile is a bad record, it does seem emblematic of everything that came to follow (and surely some stuff that came before).

still, im asking which "rock god" bit the apple 1st and got the world tossed from eden.

No, it was way back in the '60s, all that art-school blues shit that every British band did. And then the solemn revivalists like John Mayall, and then Cream. Actually, it was probably a cliche in the '20s. But I agree, "Your Mama Don't Dance" is horrible, but I'd say perhaps it was more like that bubblegum version of the '50s, which everyone from Loggins and Messina to the Sex Pistols used, you know? The Flamin Groovies on their first album, their second album, Sha Na Na, Elton John on "Croc Rock"?

But now I see the real question, I think. When did it become obligatory that rock bands sound something like "Exile"? The blues shit of the '60s replaced by the relative sludge of "Exile"? Like Bad Company and that rot? I guess "Exile" had something to do with it, except that rock bands were already imitating earlier Stones things like "Jumpin' Jack Flash," weren't they? Then later, Foghat? Free? Even early Mott the Hoople, kind of?

I think there is a sytlistic difference between the Beatles playing a blues and the Stones, but it was in some part due to the production that that stuff sounded like sludge. The Stones 68-72: great songs that sounded like they were recorded with mud caked on the ampliyers and PA system.

(of course, I also love all that solemn-revivalist, British art school bullshit -a la Mayall, P. Green's FM, etc- so my opinion is to be taken with a chunk of salt)

I dunno, it seems like their "influence" was super-brief to me. Where are all these other bands/records that sound like Exile? From the late 70s and on up to now their "classic"/cliche formula barely ever peeks through in the work of others (I guess Pele Almquist gets Jagger comparisons, and GnR's got some Stones in 'em, but the examples are few and far between and often not very interesting - Royal Trux excepted OF COURSE)

I think "Exile"'s (and the Stones') influence was more VISUAL than sonic - Aerosmith were compared to the Stones early on more because of the Tyler/Perry combo's resemblance to Jagger/Richards than because their songs were particularly Stonesy.

I need to hear some of that early Aerosmith stuff, I haven't heard anything prior to Get Your Wings (I think that's the title? it has a black cover).

inasmuch as it works the same basic double entendre as done with mirrors, you've gotta at least give them credit for consistency.

Actually, the first side is "Rocks Off" through "Tumblin' Dice".

I don't really get the cliche aspect in question. It doesn't really sound like any Stones album before or after, and it moves through too many genres to pigeonhole, and for all the talk it gets for being the best Stones album, the "hits" on the album are "Happy" and "Dice", so aside from rabid music fans, it doesn't really offer anything to the casual fan. Although I would like to see the "muddy" etc. cliched adjectives dropped from this album's description, because aside from "I Just Wanna See His Face", the album sounds fine.