belle & sebastian and oasis (fans of)

Message Bookmarked

Bookmark Removed

a few years ago these seemed very much polar opposites, not necessarily antagonistic, but larger indie clubs would play oasis and would have quite a laddish contingent, a very blokey atmosphere. clubs that would play b&s tended to be smaller fanzine-type clubs with a more self-consciously twee vibe (la pastie de la bourgeoisie, smile etc), and the clientele would be sort of duffle-coaty and and slides in the hair. people from one camp seemed quite disdainful of those in the other

now, however, there doesn't seem to be such a huge gulf between the 2. this is partly, i guess, because b&s have steadily got themselves a larger profile (and oasis a smaller one?), but somehow they seem to have come together in the middle, so much so, that it is quite expected to hear one band followed by the other, and for this to seem normal.

why is this? is this the homogenizing effects of time? or is 'indie' a smaller pie now which doesn't have the room for semi-antagonistic conceptions? whose fanbase has changed (if either)? why are oasis now acceptable to b&s fans? why are b&s now acceptable to oasis fans?

― gareth, Monday, 7 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

what strange alternate universe do you live in? Wasis have nothing in common with those losers Belle & Sebastian. And there is nothing indie about Wasis.

― DV, Monday, 7 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

The worm turned.

― N., Monday, 7 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

That's some question Gareth. Interestingly, the only other person I know (apart from me) who likes both Oasis and Belle & Sebastian is my girlfriend. In fact, since I moved to London I don't think I've met *anyone* who likes Oasis that I didn't already know.

I think the bands appeal to possesive characters, people who want to invest in something. I don't think their sales trajectories have much to do with it, although I think both have a claim to have been "the biggest indie band in the UK" at one point. I fundamentally disagree with the Vicar on this point - Oasis are (by my definition) an indie band through and through.

Overall, I don't think this phenomenon is as common as Gareth is making out... but there's no intrinsic contradiction in liking both bands. At the moment B&S probably have the upper hand in my mind, their last single was beautiful - but come February when Oasis play the Albert Hall I imagine the balance will have shifted.

― Andrew Williams, Monday, 7 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Wasis were an indie band up to around their first album.

they certainly weren't by their second.

By any definition, indie bands don't headline at Knebworth.

― DV, Monday, 7 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I avoid both britpop/90s indie bore clubs and the small wimpy twee ones - the thought of spending a night at track & field would sicken me.

This is what London has been waiting for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

> ELECTRONIC>STATIC...................CLUB FLYER 2002

Tomoyasu Hotei/2ND Gen/Kid 606/Add N To X/Squarepusher/ Techno Animal/DJ Scud/Bomb 20/Pansonic/Ec8or/Luke Vibert> Atri Teenage Riot/DeeJay Punkroc/Surgeon/The Boredoms/ Generated x-ed /The Mad Capsule Markets/Kyosuke Tokanaga/ Autechre/DJ Spooky/Current Value/Richard H Kirk/Jega/TG/ Venetian Snares/Aphasic/b3b Corporation/Cobra Killer/ Tatsuya Oe/Luke Slater/Somatic Responses/DJ Noise/Sun-Electric/ Speedy J/Tube Jerk/The Aphex Twin/Vladislav Delay/DJ Hell Alec Empire/Push Button Objects/Mark Stewart + The Maffia/ Masonna/Boards of Canada/Third Eye Foundation/Faultline/ Hypnoskull/Pole/The KLF/On-U-Sound-System/Ultraviolence/ Nerve Net Noise/Cold Cut/ Funkstorung/Test-Tube Kid/Blurt/ Boom Boom Satellites/Decoder/gas/Disinformation/Biochip C Leftfield/Aqua/Imminent Starvation/Savak/Voltaic/Gridlock/ Appliance/Photek/Meat Beat Manifesto/Madonna/Techno-Maffia/ Panacea/Matrix/Deviant Electronics/Depth Charge/Underworld The Advent/Staalplaat-Soundsystem/Clock DVA/C.V/Mixmaster Mike/ Dalius/Wire/Optical/Nico/Skynet/Coil/Slipknot/Zan Lyons Porter Ricks/William Orbit/Fear Factory/Twisted Science/ Filter/..etc..etc.

FEAT: DJ'S [ JERICO ONE/AL-VOLTAIC/KYOSUKE TOKANAGA-

ELECTRONIC>STATIC Is a new bi-monthly club-night organised and promoted by URBCOM RECORDINGS 2 showcase new artists and emerging DJ's/projects in and around central-London.... 4 more info contact .......electronicstatic@urbcom.net

Electronic Static

>>>>>>>>>>>DESTROY both OASIS & Belle & Sebstian>>>>>>>>>>>DESTOY >>> EXTERIMINATE >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

ELECTRONIC>STATIC is the FUTURE 2002 !

― DJ Martian, Monday, 7 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

By any definition, indie bands don't headline at Knebworth.

Whose definition was that? Perhaps the same person who said "By definition Belle and Sebastian do not win Brit awards?" :-) just kidding.

I'm pretty sure we have covered a variety of definitions of "indie" elsewhere, but I'd argue they qualify as an indie band on a number of grounds. I don't see how Belle & Sebastian somehow are more indie than Oasis - and I think it's insulting to them to suggest they're not as ambitious as Oasis and wouldn't play somewhere like Knebworth given half the chance. Though I imagine they'd choose somewhere a little classier.

DJ Martian, hope you have a great time. It looks like a lot of fun, whatever it is. The names all sound really exciting, like the names of futuristic bands in bad sci-fi novels. Do they all dress in tinfoil and flashing lights? That would be cool.

― Andrew Williams, Monday, 7 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Is Nico in any state to deliver?

― mark s, Monday, 7 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Wrong Nico ! Mark this one is a techstep jungle producer associated with No U Turn/ Ed Rush & Optical.

― DJ Martian, Monday, 7 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

William Orbit in that list of DJ Martian, interesting.

I'd been pondering the B&S/Oasis phenom. recently too, because one of the people I lived near in 1st year at uni was a massive Oasis (and the rest of the "Dadrock" bands) fan and -hated- B&S when I played them: "what's this fookin' shite?" and so on. Now, being the dedicated follower of fashion he is, he's a massive fan, has the t- shirt etc.

I imagine it's mostly because B&S are more widely recognised, permeated the charts (practically) and so it's less of a surprise to hear them played near Oasis - whereas it would still be a surprise to hear the Field Mice, say.

The fashion aspect is somewhat confusing - how did the anoraked Fred Perry/Henry Lloyd/etc contingent come to see eye to eye with the retro charity-shop Pop-cord flares brigade? Maybe some general blurring of the moderate indie fans. I expect there's extreme factions in either camp who can't tolerate each other.

― clive, Monday, 7 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Clive - It is not my list !

― DJ Martian, Monday, 7 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Clive's point about fashion is an interesting one... I've looked and dressed pretty much the same for the last 14 years - shaggy hair "a little too long", and what I considered to be vaguely 60's influenced clothes - cords, anoraks, etc - and the gulf between "stereotypical Oasis fan" and "stereotypical B&S fan" is really not that wide.

I wore exactly the same kind of clothes at Knebworth as I'd worn when I saw the Field Mice at University as I'd wear now to see the Strokes. Maybe I just have poor fashion sense, but I don't think so, because at every stage I've been perceived as having been "into" whatever fashion it was; eg: in 1989 I got "your hair looks like Bobby Gillespie", in 1995 I got "your hair looks like Liam Gallagher" and now I get "your hair looks like Julian Casablancas" - people see what they want to see. NB, those of you who know me, that last example has actually happened - eh?!

― Andrew Williams, Monday, 7 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Andrew - I have had a similar experience. I guess it's a 'classic' look. Only real trouble I've had was with a drunken Scouse bloke who accused me of being Oasis Manc scum at a tube station once. When I told him I wasn't a huge fan he told me to get my hair cut.

― N., Monday, 7 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

i get 'dandy warhols reject' at the moment...

― gareth, Monday, 7 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Might it not be as much a function of time as anything else? I suspect most of the smaller, twee-er clubs were set up as a reaction against the Britpop hegemony in the bigger clubs. That dominance is passed, but so is the peak of B+S's success, and I would guess that to the current generation of students (who make up a large proportion of these clubs' clientele) both these bands are in the past to a certain extent. They both form part of the accepted canon of what constitutes indie nowadays, and the shadow of Britpop is just a memory from TOTP when they were 14. We frequently get requests for Oasis tracks at SF, but our djs (mostly in their mid twenties) never play them.

― RickyT, Monday, 7 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Allegedly I look like Elvis Costello, and was told this by several large men in a pub in Didsbury, Manchester about a week ago. I effected my egress rapidly...

I think it is far to say both bands are past their prime, and so there is not as much of a scene centered around them. They've moved into the indie canon, where they are fussed over less - and the current two camps (there's always two camps in indie) would be Strokes/White Stripes/Hives schtick vs ... who?

― clive, Monday, 7 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

People like to say that other people look like celebs. And when they see long hair they think "INDIE-CELEBS!!!!!" and then before you know it you're Noel Gallagher or whoever.

― Ronan, Monday, 7 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

William Orbit and Fear Factory in that list from Martian? woo. e- clec-tic.

I've been to the twee night (smile) mentioned in the outset of this thread more times than I care to count, not through any love of that kind of thing, just cos people I knew were playing records there. It's a grubby night in a grubby venue but it can be fun if you're drunk enough. However, it does seem to attract a certain kind of shrinking violet/pale and interesting sort who seem utterly untouched by most of the cultural events of the last two decades and I'm always left with a kind of sadness. It's an evolutionary cul-de-sac, make no mistake about that, but you know, to each their own and all that. As for Wasis, jesus, I never got it. Pub rock to the Nth degree. B&S and Wasis both seem to be examples of the Band-as-Genre school of music fandom, something that's kind of limiting and, well, immature. There's something a bit perverse about that kind of brand loyalty. If these two sides are coming a bit closer, well good for them. I still don't care much for either. I think 'Indie' is and maybe ever was a misnomer. It seems to merely mean backward looking music made with guitars. Don't get me wrong, I've nothing against guitars, some of my best friends are guitars, but I find all that living in the past a teensy bit morbid. Cue for a flute solo.

― misterjones, Tuesday, 8 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

much as i love Zan Lyons and Techno Animal, aren't they better heard live, in the sense that you get a discrete and extremely concentrated 45-60 minute set? I can't imagine what sort of horrible violence would spill out onto the streets after 3 hours of drinking and listening to this monumentally heavy/dark techno? I'll have to come along in my Vaselines T-shirt and find out.

NB Martian, the most limp wristedly, meanderingly twee moment I've ever experienced in a London club occured at a Zan Lyons gig, when The Wisdom of Harry took the stage.

― Alasdair, Tuesday, 8 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

"ELECTRONIC>STATIC is the FUTURE 2002 !"

coldcut is the future????

god help us all....

― ambrose, Tuesday, 8 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I always read DJ Martian's weblog and I apreciate him. But, Ambrose, I agree. God help DJ Martian if he really think Electro-Static is the future. And God help us all if DJ Martian is right.

And how can you use the words "Oasis" and "Belle And Sebastian" in the same sentence?? Shame on you!! B&S is the present, the future, and the past. They are atemporal classics just like The Beatles, The Velvets and The Smiths. Oasis is shit.

― venus in surf, Tuesday, 8 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

And how can you use the words "Oasis" and "Belle And Sebastian" in the same sentence??

D'oh!

― N., Tuesday, 8 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Well, that's your opinion and you're entitled to it, even if it's not exactly an incisive commentary on the situation. Like I say, I admire both bands, so at least I'm half right in your book. But I'd be interested to hear what you think is so different about them - there was a really interesting thread by the Pinefox recently about the similarities between Noel Gallagher and Stuart Murdoch which might shed light on this too...

― Andrew Williams, Tuesday, 8 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

yes andrew you're right, i was going to go and have a look for that pinefox thread (although i had assumed it was more to do with their respective merits as songwriters than a wider context type thing)

i am still very interested in how things that seemed oppositional at one point can seem complimentary at another. and how fanbases of artists, in general, change with time

― gareth, Tuesday, 8 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

hey, some of that stuff they are going to play at that night sounds pretty good. i just thought i'd make a silly joke about coldcut, cos they always bang on about how their a/v stuff is the future and have been for the last 10 yrs or so.....

― ambrose, Tuesday, 8 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

here's the other thread

hmmm. Well, at least I'm consistent (some might say repetitive...).

― Andrew Williams, Tuesday, 8 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

oh dear, i hadn't realised i pretty much raised all my points in that thread before. duh, get some new ideas gareth!

i didn't know you were at Bowlie, Andrew, i was there too (actually, i have just realised that a lot of people on this board were probably there)

― gareth, Tuesday, 8 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I was there!

― N., Tuesday, 8 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

the ideas brought up around fashion are rather interesting, at least until you're reminded of the truth that, though you will get the odd silly-ass pseudo-mod taking it all very seriously, the audience at an oasis show will tend to look more like football rally than a meticulously calculated recreation of carnaby street circa '66.

― marek, Tuesday, 8 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

You must be logged in to post. Please either login here, or if you are not registered, you may register here.