Alan silva celestial communication orchestra - i don't get it

you need to hear the triple lp, dude.

what is it about the execution that makes it better?

the thing about the triple record was just the sheer MASS of the whole thing! I mean, yeah, it seems like a simple idea, right? Just gather as many sympathetic musicians as you can, give them a handful of instructions, and let them loose... Well, nobody had really attempted something on the scale of that triple record before. The closest would be, yeah, Coltrane's Ascension. But even on that recording -- as amazing as it is -- what happens is that the mass of brass/reed drops out for each individual solo.

On the Silva thing, it's seriously just a constant barrage of SOUND. I dunno, it just feels like this really weighty, massive THING. It's very assaulting. It's not even about any kind of score or program or anything like that; so in that sense it's very much a period piece. But yeah, there is just a sense of adventure in the recording -- like, let's see how DENSE we can make this thing. First time I heard it i just found it breathtaking..

the density is kind of impressive, but you can see the diff parts...I guess globe unity was a similar idea (I have a disc but haven't played it in a long time) but just thinking of other dense things and the difference is that I can follow certain strands and structure bits in my head but there are certain complexities in the internal structure that I'll never get at so that's why I'll keep playing it.

There's structure on here but it just sounds less unified but it prob was the only way that this idea could be made to work.

"Just gather as many sympathetic musicians as you can, give them a handful of instructions, and let them loose..."

Dave Burrell's ECHO to thread

actually my prev post I wz prob trying to explainthe diff between noise music that's interesting on record and that which isn't.

Ra gets around the task of organizing large ensembles to collectively improvise by only having them doing in at certain points, and for a short while; at others the arkestra is broken into bits and continuously reconfigured: e.g. on 'other planes...' where you have a trombone trio at one point. With CCC is all of these parts that gel with each other but never with other parts, even when playing alongside each other.

'The closest would be, yeah, Coltrane's Ascension. But even on that recording -- as amazing as it is -- what happens is that the mass of brass/reed drops out for each individual solo.'

I should pull the interview I read from him but yeah, Alan said something like this and that it was almost as if Coltrane had left this for him to do.

One other thing is what gets lost in all of this is talk abt his bass playing - last time I heard cecil taylor's 'its in the brewing luminuous' I just got these vibrations from it once I could identify it amongst the really satisfying mass coming from the speaker.

stormy nailed it. julio, listen to funhouse, then the 3lp.

i still like the sheer mass blast of Jazz Composers Orchestra (1968)

Yes, the Mantler Communications are pretty hard to beat in terms of organised large-scale collective density (interestingly Silva also appears in the line-up for Cecil T's half of that record). The Globe Unity Orchestra circa early-mid '70s is the only big improv ensemble which even comes close.

The original Silva CCO triple-album is an exhausting experience (though in a good way), but if you can find it, Lester Bowie's Baden-Baden Free Jazz Workshop album from '69 Gittin' To Know Y'All is even better. Has all of the Art Ensemble on it plus the likes of Willem Brueker, Tony Oxley, John Surman, Gerd Dudek et al. I think it's available as a Jap import CD but otherwise keep your eyes on the second-hand racks.

ooooh i want gtkya!