LOVE: "Love" (self-titled) vs. "Forever Changes"

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Just picked up the self-titled today, but I've dug "Forever Changes" for years. I'm still on my first listen, but the self-titled seems more garage and less, uh, free love/fuck the man. Anyone?

― poortheatre (poortheatre), Saturday, 5 February 2005 07:06 (twenty-one years ago)

Some great songs on that but you should also pick up De Capo. That is a great album.

― Andy Jay, Saturday, 5 February 2005 08:40 (twenty-one years ago)

"Some great songs on that but you should also pick up De Capo. That is a great album."

Half a great album. The sidelong "Revelation" is rubbish.

― Blightersrock (Da ve Segal), Saturday, 5 February 2005 09:52 (twenty-one years ago)

I agree with Mr. Segal! I think the 1st LP is way better than Da Capo!! Da Capo, I dunno, it had the first side-long track, whatever. You'll need to hear it if you're gonna read Aesthetics of Rock I suppose (which of course you absolutely should! as should everyone!!) But, man, "Revolution" just ain't happenin'. To my ears anyway. Oh, don't get me wrong -- it's great! but it's not GREAT!!!

1st album totally rules -- it's funny, they were SO enthralled with the Byrds. Can you blame them, though? They lived in LA, and anyway the Byrds were the best four piece American rock combination ever at that point. I think Arthur did a decent job differentiating his guys on this LP. I mean, "My Flash On You" -- sure it just takes the "Hey joe" chord progression -- but it's the WAY Arthur sings that shit, this is "7 and 7 Is" right here. same fucking thing, but here on the first lp.

Yeah, 1st album rules. Oh, you were expecting another Forever Changes? Nah, not here. I never play that album anyway, to be honest.

― Stormy Davis (diamond), Saturday, 5 February 2005 10:12 (twenty-one years ago)

also a lot of Seeds competition going down on this LP, obviously.

Man, between Seeds-Doors-Love-Byrds ... LA in 1966 ... Must have been a nice place to hang out, drive around, and see a few bands.

― Stormy Davis (diamond), Saturday, 5 February 2005 10:16 (twenty-one years ago)

I must confess, I don't much care for any Love except for "Forever Changes" and the single that was tacked on the end of the recent CD reissue. I was really looking forward to hearing the s/t album and da capo, but they've never really grabbed me. I wish they'd kept it together & recorded "Gethsemane". I agree about LA '66. Than must have been a great time & place to live.

― Pashmina (Pashmina), Saturday, 5 February 2005 10:42 (twenty-one years ago)

well, yeah, yr right Norm, obv have to put this stuff in perspective. and I'm by no means running down thee ol' Forever Changes --- meant a whole bunch to me!! but after studying this whole american rock thang, I kinda dug what was going on with that first Love lp. but I totally understand if people are underwhelmed .. it's really a product of a very nascent scene. I just happen ta thing it's a pretty damn nice one...

― Stormy Davis (diamond), Saturday, 5 February 2005 10:48 (twenty-one years ago)

I was expecting kind of the gnarly byrds, I think, and I suppose that's exactly what those albums are, but I think the gnarly byrds weren't quite what I was hoping for, really, if you know what I mean!

― Pashmina (Pashmina), Saturday, 5 February 2005 10:52 (twenty-one years ago)

right on, I've got ya! As much as I love the Byrds, I prefer all the early Beatles albums much much better than their slavish fans the Byrds' early albums! Shit, the Beatles 0W|\| me. It's only around late 1967/68 that I start wringing my hands. Only because I think Notorious Byrds Brothers is one of the most sweet, sublime records ever. but anyway. Love also went sweet and sublime. But in a different sweet and sublime from the Byrds' sweet and sublime. It's a funny story.

― Stormy Davis (diamond), Saturday, 5 February 2005 11:08 (twenty-one years ago)

"I must confess, I don't much care for any Love except for "Forever Changes" and the single that was tacked on the end of the recent CD reissue"

So sad :(

― scott seward (scott seward), Saturday, 5 February 2005 12:49 (twenty-one years ago)

I actually listen to Out Here & Four Sail more than anything else these days, but I love them all. (Out Here actually has my favorite Love song on it.)

― scott seward (scott seward), Saturday, 5 February 2005 12:54 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm sorry Scott. I did try. :(

― Pashmina (Pashmina), Saturday, 5 February 2005 12:54 (twenty-one years ago)

I find it weird that someone would like Forever Changes but not, say, '¡Que Vida!' or 'Orange Skies'.

― Alba (Alba), Saturday, 5 February 2005 12:56 (twenty-one years ago)

I prefer all of them. But in order of greatness for me...

Forever Changes
Da Capo
Love

― Big Baby Bingo (Chris V), Saturday, 5 February 2005 13:45 (twenty-one years ago)

Four Sail is actually my favorite, love that heavy rawk guitar. Forever Changes sounds a but precious and fussed-over in comparison.

― lovebug starski (lovebug starski), Saturday, 5 February 2005 14:42 (twenty-one years ago)

Precious and fussed--over are good though because Love are like a more precious and fussy Seeds (as Story pointed out). I think the Seeds comparison is a lot more OTM than the Doors or the Byrds.

― walter kranz (walterkranz), Saturday, 5 February 2005 16:51 (twenty-one years ago)

I don't think they sounded anything like the Seeds.

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Saturday, 5 February 2005 17:00 (twenty-one years ago)

I was thinking the same thing re:the Seeds. Glad it's not just me.

― lovebug starski (lovebug starski), Saturday, 5 February 2005 17:03 (twenty-one years ago)

"Man, between Seeds-Doors-Love-Byrds ... LA in 1966"

Yeah, not to mention Mothers of Invention, Captain Beefheart and His Magic Band, the Music Machine, the Buffalo Springfield, Standells, Strawberry Alarm Clock, Spirit, Kaleidoscope, etc.

BEST SCENE EVER

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Saturday, 5 February 2005 17:06 (twenty-one years ago)

Part of the genius of the Seeds is how unique they were.

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Saturday, 5 February 2005 17:07 (twenty-one years ago)

Only in the sense of doing (on the first two albums) punkish garage rock with a somewhat flamboyant and warbly lead singer. Love were definitely less drivingly repetitive and had more of a baroque pop angle. Still I don't really see the Byrds connection other than in the most generic "jangly-guitar-covers-of-traditional-songs" sense.

― walter kranz (walterkranz), Saturday, 5 February 2005 17:07 (twenty-one years ago)

BEST SCENE EVER

It kicks SF's ass, doesn't it?

― walter kranz (walterkranz), Saturday, 5 February 2005 17:09 (twenty-one years ago)

I love those first 3 Love LPs. But for me, it's side one of "Da Capo" all the way, six of the best songs ever..

― edd s hurt (ddduncan), Saturday, 5 February 2005 17:16 (twenty-one years ago)

For pure garage rock, the Music Machine always seemed more artful and interesting than the Seeds, though I do dig the Seeds' monomania. Man, could they drive a riff straight through to the Earth's core.

What this has to do with Love vs Forever Changes, I'm not sure. I just thought you should know where I stand on 60s LA garage rock.

"I love those first 3 Love LPs. But for me, it's side one of "Da Capo" all the way, six of the best songs ever."

So OTM.

― Blightersrock (Da ve Segal), Saturday, 5 February 2005 19:31 (twenty-one years ago)

BEST SCENE EVER also includes Jimmy Webb, the 5th Dimension, etc.

― The Obligatory Sourpuss (Begs2Differ), Saturday, 5 February 2005 19:43 (twenty-one years ago)

The 2-cd love set that you see everywhere is pretty good because it has all the good stuff, esp. removing the second side of "Da Capo."

My fave love track is "Que Vida!"

― caspar (caspar), Saturday, 5 February 2005 19:53 (twenty-one years ago)

re: the Seeds thing, I mean obviously they sound vastly different -- Arthur sounds nothing like Sky, no big buzzing organ in Love -- but keep in mind I was just thinking of the FIRST ALBUM, in response to poortheatre's query. I think there was a similar attack in the rhythm sections early on. Many of the songs on that first record kind of swing along in much the same manner as the Seeds. Like, take that "My Flash on You" track I referenced and compare it something like "Tripmaker" or "No Escape" from the Seeds. The way that bass line alternates between two notes on the verse, has a very similar rhythmic sensibility. To my ears. The verse on "You I'll Be Following" does the same thing in the verse, that alternating two-note stomp thing. It just has total Byrdsian prettiness overlain instead of Sky's pure sex and that brain-piercing organ.

Also, god, the bass is mixed so HIGH on the first Love album! It commands attention. But yeah I think there was a lot of cross-pollination goin' on with those LA folx. Which is fine, great, natural! They were rewriting the book. Or writing it, even. (except of course Love didn't write "the Little Red Book")

Anyway, man, I love this first album. Listening to it again now. So tough and beautiful.

― Stormy Davis (diamond), Saturday, 5 February 2005 21:02 (twenty-one years ago)

blah 'verse in the verse' sorry about that

― Stormy Davis (diamond), Saturday, 5 February 2005 21:03 (twenty-one years ago)

mia is shit.

― mia is shit., Saturday, 5 February 2005 21:04 (twenty-one years ago)

I find it interesting that the Doors basically stole Love's thunder...perhaps Love hit a bit too early to really quite make it, weren't they the first rock and roll group signed to Elektra?

The 2-CD set is quite good; I'm not a huge fan of the later Love material, though, seems like the typical evolution of cool pop band into something else that was supposedly more "rooted" but in reality was just more boring. Hard to say. Anyway, yeah, "¡Que Vida!" is one of my touchstone songs, so great. As is "She Comes in Colors." There are times I think "Forever Changes" is a tad overrated, then I go back and listen and don't think so any more...

― edd s hurt (ddduncan), Saturday, 5 February 2005 22:09 (twenty-one years ago)

1st album EASY for me

― j blount (papa la bas), Saturday, 5 February 2005 23:39 (twenty-one years ago)

ROBERT MONTGOMERY MUTHAFUKKAS!

― J (Jay), Saturday, 5 February 2005 23:46 (twenty-one years ago)

Exactly. The first of the albums with the new band, though, Four Sail, is an awesome record. And there's good stuff on the double album, Out There, too (though not the jamming).

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Saturday, 5 February 2005 23:49 (twenty-one years ago)

''In my house you don't wear shackles, you can come and go if you want to"

Forever Changes.

― Ken L (Ken L), Saturday, 5 February 2005 23:50 (twenty-one years ago)

BTW, any truth to the rumor that "Interstellar Overdrive" was inspired by Love's version of "My Little Red Book"?

― Ken L (Ken L), Saturday, 5 February 2005 23:51 (twenty-one years ago)

That's the legend.

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Saturday, 5 February 2005 23:54 (twenty-one years ago)

"And there's good stuff on the double album, Out There, too (though not the jamming)"

*Out Here*

― scott seward (scott seward), Saturday, 5 February 2005 23:59 (twenty-one years ago)

Check.

Scott, I was speculating that your favorite Love song (which you say is from that album) is "Abalony?"

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Sunday, 6 February 2005 00:02 (twenty-one years ago)

It's one of the most Out Here records ever!

I need to listen to that again, it's been awhile. I do remember enjoying it. Maybe I'll just spend tonight listening to the complete recorded works of Love. I need to go buy some beer first though.

― Stormy Davis (diamond), Sunday, 6 February 2005 00:06 (twenty-one years ago)

I should share with the class what I wrote about that record when i was drunk one nite. No, my fave love song is "listen to my song". i will try and find what i wrote.

― scott seward (scott seward), Sunday, 6 February 2005 00:10 (twenty-one years ago)

I am listening to Tantra's "The Hills Of Katmandu" right now, but I'm only on my 4th beer. The Love may come out as well.

― scott seward (scott seward), Sunday, 6 February 2005 00:12 (twenty-one years ago)

Okay, here is what I wrote about Out Here:

"Rag tag? Yes. A glimmer of gospel that works well with the confines of the shaggy Cali rock genre that it is housed in? Yes. Stripped to the bone, anguished AND elongated reworking of past work? Yes. Bloody-fingered guitar solos? Yes. Achingly pretty trifles that make you want to cry like a baby born at Woodstock and raised in the home of a distant and preoccupied lawyer father and social worker mother who subscribe to Mother Jones and feel that carob is somehow a suitable substitute for chocolate chips? Yes. Smart-ass anti-war filler? Yes. Lilting country-blues tunes with sha la la la la la la la la la choruses that turn into really really long drum clinics? Yes. A breezy Topanga Canyon guitar workout seemingly inspired by Crosby, Stills, and Nash that is blissfully free of Crosby, Stills, and Nash? Yes. Fuzz, feedback, and distortion? Yes. Eleven minutes and twenty seconds of uninterrupted fuzz, feedback, and distortion? Yes. A blink and you'll miss it love letter to John Coltrane? Yes. Faux folk hootenany filler? Yes. Light as air pop confections? Yes. Tales of woe? Hell, yes. A disappointment after creating three albums that helped shape the melting face of west coast psychedelic pop and rock? I don't think so."

― scott seward (scott seward), Sunday, 6 February 2005 00:36 (twenty-one years ago)

By the way, to everyone who is not so sure about Forever Changes, do you have the old CD or the remastered version or vinyl copy? The old CD had (to my ears, perhaps I'm crazy) a strange high-pitched whine throughout the whole album which really affected the whole feeling. Some of the songs that I thought were depressing actually sounded much more upbeat when I heard the remastered version. This is the only time I've ever experienced something like this with a remastered album and I found it quite suprising.

― walter kranz (walterkranz), Sunday, 6 February 2005 01:51 (twenty-one years ago)

No love for False Start? *dodges rocks and stones*

I do like Arthur Lee's Vindicator though.

And I think of all the canonical melodic 60s albums, Forever Changes is the one I'm the least moved by.. I don't know why. I prefer listening to select songs from Love, De Capo, and Four Sail instead.

― donut christ (donut), Sunday, 6 February 2005 01:59 (twenty-one years ago)

I dig the upfront D-R-U-G references on the first album. "He had a shoebox behind his icebox" and all that. Early Elektra 74000 series as a pop Grove Press?

― Rickey Wright (Rrrickey), Sunday, 6 February 2005 02:00 (twenty-one years ago)

three years pass...

LOVE fans worldwide! Rally around those three (almost) perfect albums and go to Sven's Best band ever thread and nominate this awesome band of genius! Do it soon!

― Janitor in the Valley of the Dolls (Drugs A. Money), Thursday, 18 December 2008 00:30 (seventeen years ago)

Yeah, I've read this complaint about the old CD. I could never hear it, but I have a slight bit of tinnitus that I assume overrode it.

― If Timi Yuro would be still alive, most other singers could shut up, Thursday, 18 December 2008 00:53 (seventeen years ago)

I seem to be the only person on ilm who likes The Revelation on Da Capo. not played it in a while though.

― Dr X O'Skeleton, Thursday, 18 December 2008 11:26 (seventeen years ago)

Not even Arthurly liked Revelation

― Vicious Cop Kills Gentle Fool (Tom D.), Thursday, 18 December 2008 11:28 (seventeen years ago)

never heard Revelation...everything else on the first 3 albums is absolutely essential (except perhaps Emotions...sorry Johnny E.)

anybody know who Arthur Lee's girlfriend who he wrote Andmoreagain (as well as And More I think) for? I think And More are the first syllables of her first & last name (like Andrea Morinelli or something like that?) Anybody out there know what I'm talking about?

― Janitor in the Valley of the Dolls (Drugs A. Money), Thursday, 18 December 2008 13:08 (seventeen years ago)

Yes. Also "7 and 7 Is" was so titled because her birthday was on the 14th... something like that anyway.

― Vicious Cop Kills Gentle Fool (Tom D.), Thursday, 18 December 2008 13:12 (seventeen years ago)

yeah but what's her real name? that up above was just a goofball stab at it

― Janitor in the Valley of the Dolls (Drugs A. Money), Thursday, 18 December 2008 13:16 (seventeen years ago)

one year passes...

man! aside from Revelation, those first three albums are about as good as music gets...

― scaruffi kaleidoscope (Drugs A. Money), Wednesday, 20 October 2010 02:49 (fifteen years ago)

ten months pass...

unreleased album coming out. sounds sorta hendrix-ish

http://www.wnyc.org/shows/soundcheck/2011/sep/13/black-beauty-love/

― jaxon, Wednesday, 14 September 2011 18:35 (fourteen years ago)

all black band

― jaxon, Wednesday, 14 September 2011 18:35 (fourteen years ago)

"Forever Changes" easily. It's their most complete album to me. Although realistically each Love album has at least one good-to-great track on it.

― Turrican, Wednesday, 14 September 2011 21:53 (fourteen years ago)

Yes. Also "7 and 7 Is" was so titled because her birthday was on the 14th... something like that anyway.

― Vicious Cop Kills Gentle Fool (Tom D.), Thursday, December 18, 2008 5:12 AM (2 years ago)

― timellison, Wednesday, 14 September 2011 22:01 (fourteen years ago)

Oops, meant to comment on that. Isn't it also that the song is about Arthur being punished for a bad report card (and obviously the title refers to a children's math problem)?

― timellison, Wednesday, 14 September 2011 22:02 (fourteen years ago)

"mind in an ice cream cone" = wearing a dunce cap

― timellison, Wednesday, 14 September 2011 22:03 (fourteen years ago)

Single:

a-side "7 and 7 is"
b-side "no, 14"

― Mark G, Wednesday, 14 September 2011 22:04 (fourteen years ago)

is true:

http://images.45cat.com/love-7-and-7-is-london.jpg

http://images.45cat.com/love-no-fourteen-london.jpg

― Mark G, Wednesday, 14 September 2011 22:06 (fourteen years ago)

ha!

― tylerw, Wednesday, 14 September 2011 22:26 (fourteen years ago)

surprisingly, i never heart that song, (no. fourteen), till now. (thanks youtube)

very nice, deserve a better production though, is sounds like a demo

― nostormo, Wednesday, 14 September 2011 22:38 (fourteen years ago)

btw, its funny to compare Love to Forever Changes.
almost nothing compares to Forever Changes, let alone other Love records. and De Capo is better.

― nostormo, Wednesday, 14 September 2011 22:43 (fourteen years ago)

first Love album is awesome, and is better than Da Capo which is half-boring jam session, and half-Slates to FC's Hex.

― http://drdrestartedburningman.tumblr.com/ (Drugs A. Money), Wednesday, 14 September 2011 23:15 (fourteen years ago)

five years pass...

this sounds TERRIBLE.

https://www.discogs.com/Love-Forever-Changes/release/5042286

― scott seward, Tuesday, 23 May 2017 18:24 (eight years ago)

just so you know.

― scott seward, Tuesday, 23 May 2017 18:25 (eight years ago)

thought that was this one (which I have a copy of, sounded OK to me)

https://www.discogs.com/Love-Forever-Changes/release/1527432

but no, the one I have is an earlier version.

― HONOR THE FYRE (sleeve), Tuesday, 23 May 2017 18:28 (eight years ago)

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